6-6.5x47

[jimmy milnes]

hi all this may sound a silly question and for that please accept my appologies but, what is this caliber 6-6.5x47 please ? i understand 6.5x47 and it would follow that i prob understand that a 6x47 would be the same 6.5x47 necked down and shot through a rifle rebarreled in 6mil, so if im correct why is it written 6-6.5x47 please ?

regards

confused jimmy

[rabbit fingers]

A 6x47 is a 223 necked up to 6mm. Hence the 6-6.5x47

[gbal]

A 6x47 is a 223 necked up to 6mm. Hence the 6-6.5x47

And the commercial 223 is essentially the 5.56x45 nato round,hence necking up to 243 gives the 6x47 !(early wildcatters also used the slightly longer-about1/10 of an inch- 222 mag case,which might have some bearing on the 47).

Its endemic-there is no consistent way of labelling cartridges,even within one country-it's not all arbitrary,some nomenclature avoids overlaps and confusions-but when you add in different conventions between eg USA and Europe,then maybe complicate by British ,No wonder some get confused.There are good reference books ,of course,like 'Cartridges of the world' by F.Barnes. The web can help,too.

george

[Laurie]

Hmmmh ..... the original 6X47mm was the .222 Magnum case necked up (a popular benchrest number a generation ago pre PPC). Neck the 223 Rem up and you get 6X45mm, or 6mm-223, or 6/223, call it what you will as it's a wildcat with no CIP or SAAMI registration and standards.

 

Jimmy, the necked down 6.5X47 Lapua wildcat is also often referred to as the 6X47 Lapua, or 6X47L, a bit less clumsy than the 6-6.5X47. As George says, there's no consistency in nomenclature and frequently confusion and apparently deliberate misnaming. The .222 Rem, .223 Rem, and .222 Rem Magnum all use 0.224" diameter bullets but that number barely figures in any 0.224 calibre cartridges, the occasional rare and litlle used wildcat aside - presumably it (224) didn't sound 'right' to Remington marketing people, and later on they had the .244 Remington 6mm cartridge at one stage, so no doubt worried about confusion too. The only true '223' around is the very early (pre WW2) version of the original .22 factory centrefire varmint cartridge, the .22 Hornet. It used this bullet diameter simply because the US Army experimenters who did the work that created the cartridge had a ready made bullet in that diameter from the .22 Velo-Dog cartridge. (I'm not kidding here - it was a pistol type frame mounted bicycle gun designed for defence against the many fierce dogs that lived in roadside houses and farmyards and who would attack any passing cyclist.) When civilian rifle production resumed in the US after the war ended in 1945, the specification was changed to 0.224" for some reason and that's been the .22 centrefire bullet diameter ever since.

 

Also as George says, Cartridges of the World (originally by the late George Barnes but continually updated since his death) is a great source of information and very cheap for what you get in it. It's usually available from Amazon.co.uk.

[jimmy milnes]

Thank you for the replies guys im now a lot clearer

Much ablige

Jimmy

[gbal]

Hmmmh ..... the original 6X47mm was the .222 Magnum case necked up (a popular benchrest number a generation ago pre PPC). Neck the 223 Rem up and you get 6X45mm, or 6mm-223, or 6/223, call it what you will as it's a wildcat with no CIP or SAAMI registration and standards.

 

Jimmy, the necked down 6.5X47 Lapua wildcat is also often referred to as the 6X47 Lapua, or 6X47L, a bit less clumsy than the 6-6.5X47. As George says, there's no consistency in nomenclature and frequently confusion and apparently deliberate misnaming. The .222 Rem, .223 Rem, and .222 Rem Magnum all use 0.224" diameter bullets but that number barely figures in any 0.224 calibre cartridges, the occasional rare and litlle used wildcat aside - presumably it (224) didn't sound 'right' to Remington marketing people, and later on they had the .244 Remington 6mm cartridge at one stage, so no doubt worried about confusion too. The only true '223' around is the very early (pre WW2) version of the original .22 factory centrefire varmint cartridge, the .22 Hornet. It used this bullet diameter simply because the US Army experimenters who did the work that created the cartridge had a ready made bullet in that diameter from the .22 Velo-Dog cartridge. (I'm not kidding here - it was a pistol type frame mounted bicycle gun designed for defence against the many fierce dogs that lived in roadside houses and farmyards and who would attack any passing cyclist.) When civilian rifle production resumed in the US after the war ended in 1945, the specification was changed to 0.224" for some reason and that's been the .22 centrefire bullet diameter ever since.

 

Also as George says, Cartridges of the World (originally by the late George Barnes but continually updated since his death) is a great source of information and very cheap for what you get in it. It's usually available from Amazon.co.uk.

Ah,the good old days,Laurie.Just a boy and his bike,and his Velo Dog pistol-the county vulpicider.

What has the equipment race/PC done to it all?!.

george

[Laurie]

I wonder how North Yorks Firearms licensing would respond if I applied for a variation for a .22 Velo-Dog, the 'good reason' being self defence while cycling? Anyway, I suspect the original firerarm is now legally a pistol and is therefore a 'prohibited weapon', even before the RSPCA and whoever gets onto their high horses and tell me that dogs' safety is more important than mine.

 

When I was in my teens, we would occasionally divert from a Sunday trip route to buy free-range eggs at a farm. The farmhouse had presumably been a gatehouse for a large estate at some point, and had huge wall in front of its yard with an imposing arched entrance to the property. This wall had around 1-1.5 metre wide coping stones on top and the family kept their dog there, its kennel at one end of the section, and the dog restrained by a hefty chain, it presumably let loose when the family went to bed.

 

When I say 'dog', I really mean cross between Yeti, Big Foot, and werewolf - pitch black and the most frightening animal I'd ever seen before or since outside a zoo. It greeted you as a visitor by rushing out of the kennel and attempting to break the chain to get at you while emiiting horrible growls and snarls. When I first read about the Velo-Dog cartridge, I always had a mental picture of huge fierce farmdogs looking like this leaping out of barns and attacking unwary cyclists - you can see why the inventor thought there was a self-defence market, but personally I'd prefer something larger calibre and more lethal than a piddling little .22 pistol number.

[gbal]

I wonder how North Yorks Firearms licensing would respond if I applied for a variation for a .22 Velo-Dog, the 'good reason' being self defence while cycling? Anyway, I suspect the original firerarm is now legally a pistol and is therefore a 'prohibited weapon', even before the RSPCA and whoever gets onto their high horses and tell me that dogs' safety is more important than mine.

 

When I was in my teens, we would occasionally divert from a Sunday trip route to buy free-range eggs at a farm. The farmhouse had presumably been a gatehouse for a large estate at some point, and had huge wall in front of its yard with an imposing arched entrance to the property. This wall had around 1-1.5 metre wide coping stones on top and the family kept their dog there, its kennel at one end of the section, and the dog restrained by a hefty chain, it presumably let loose when the family went to bed.

 

When I say 'dog', I really mean cross between Yeti, Big Foot, and werewolf - pitch black and the most frightening animal I'd ever seen before or since outside a zoo. It greeted you as a visitor by rushing out of the kennel and attempting to break the chain to get at you while emiiting horrible growls and snarls. When I first read about the Velo-Dog cartridge, I always had a mental picture of huge fierce farmdogs looking like this leaping out of barns and attacking unwary cyclists - you can see why the inventor thought there was a self-defence market, but personally I'd prefer something larger calibre and more lethal than a piddling little .22 pistol number.

Hence,the Howdah pistol !

 

I knew a gamekeeper,Laurie,like your canine -sans chain- but fortunately he could be pacified to some extent by Glenmorangie.

 

george

[Laurie]

Hence, the Howdah pistol ! [GBal]

 

 

Not a bad choice George. Actually, I had a sawn-off 12B semi-auto loaded with buckshot more in mind for this animal. (Pure silver buckshot balls needed too, maybe?)

 

Re your friend (acquaintance?) it's always said that

 

'music soothes the savage breast'

 

but the local (bagpipes) variety is more inclined to inflame those of the wilder of my fellow countrymen in my experience - and that long before Alex Salmon ever arrived on this earth to torment us. Yes .... Glenmorangie is a good if expensive medicine for all sorts of ailments.

[gbal]

Not a bad choice George. Actually, I had a sawn-off 12B semi-auto loaded with buckshot more in mind for this animal. (Pure silver buckshot balls needed too, maybe?)

 

Re your friend (acquaintance?) it's always said that

 

'music soothes the savage breast'

 

but the local (bagpipes) variety is more inclined to inflame those of the wilder of my fellow countrymen in my experience - and that long before Alex Salmon ever arrived on this earth to torment us. Yes .... Glenmorangie is a good if expensive medicine for all sorts of ailments.

Laurie,a true scottish gentleman is someone who knows how to play the bagpipes,but chooses not to.

mcgeorge

[garyw]

A 6x47 is a 223 necked up to 6mm. Hence the 6-6.5x47

as Laurie has already pointed out todays version is the 6.5x 47 case necked down to 6mm-i shoot one in f-class at diggle and it is a nice cartridge to shoot-easy to load for plenty of quality bullets available-mine likes the 105 berger hybrids, lapua brass holds well in the diggle climate and very good velocity.

vince b,[gun pimp] shoots one very similar but he uses the swiss match case necked to 6mm, Laurie or Vince himself could fill in with more information on the 6mm swiss.

[Laurie]

vince b,[gun pimp] shoots one very similar but he uses the swiss match case necked to 6mm, Laurie or Vince himself could fill in with more information on the 6mm swiss.

 

 

Gary, the 6mm Swiss Match is very similar to the 6XC and 6X47 Lapua in size, performance and accuracy. The only brass is European (RWS I imagine) and very expensive, so the 6X47 Lapua and XC are easier to build a rifle around. When Vince built his 6SM rifle, it was before the 6.5X47L appeared and you couldn't get XC brass here at the time. (You can form the 6XC yourself easily enough out of .22-250 Rem brass, and we've since had Lapua start making that case too for a really good quality version.) Vince says himself, he'd likely choose one of the other pair if he were starting out now. That's not to say he's at all unhappy with the cartridge - just could have got there a bit cheaper and easier if doing it now.

 

The main difference between the 6X47L + its parent 6.5X47 Lapua and the 6SM + 6XC is primer and flash-hole sizes. The 6.5X47 Lapua case uses the small primer and 1.5mm dia. flash-hole, (as per the 6BR, .220 Russian and PPCs) which are reckoned superior in a case and powder charge of this size. The downside is the small primer is much more prone to crater and even be pierced by the firing pin, so can cause problems with full-pressure loads in rifles built on factory actions. I've got an FN Special Police Rifle (basically a Winchester 70 action) that I had rebarrelled to 6.5X47 Lapua and had to have it subsequently rechambered to .260 Rem to overcome the problem. Some Remy 700s and single-shot Savage 12 PT actions are OK, others not. No problems with rifles built on custom actions like the Barnards, RPA, Stolles, BATs and the new breed of British manufactured models from DCR, GBR, Valkyrie etc.