Bore scope video, remington versus lilja.

[craigyboy]

I am sure they picked the worst remington barrel they could find to bore scope but the difference is quite alot, though he doesnt show very much of his barrel but from the looks of things it wouldnt matter, not trying to show remingtons are bad or anything, just though it was interesting.

 

Bore scope video

[Bambi-basher]

It would have been interesting to see some other manufactures barrels (Sako, Blaser, Savage ect). Seeing than remmys seem to shoot OK I wonder how bad does a barrel have to be before it has a really adverse affect on accuracy?

 

Best rgds

 

B-b

[craigyboy]

I was thining that too bambi basher, most remmys seem capabe to hold decent accuracy, a barrel must need to be pretty bad to really effect accuracy, though as I said I reckon they picked about the worst barrel they could find to showcase on the video, most of them are probably not near that bad.

[tulkyuk]

I now a Lilja Barrel would and should be better, but why do they show verious different sections of the Remington barrel by going up and down it , but only show one small section of the Lilja barrel??

[Redfox]

They do move up and down a bit, but lets face it, as the barrel has been hand lapped to that finish why would they need to show every millimetre? it will by virtue of the process be the same end to end. The remmy is what you get with a factory barrel hammered down onto a mandrel which has seen a lot of action and probably not been treated with kid gloves either!

Same old story you pays your maoney etc. To be fair not all remmy or factory barrels are as bad as this.

I have had a good look at the new barrel fitted to my Sako and it looks very like the Lilja one.

Redfox

[Ronin]

The condition of the rifling is only one factor out of many that affect a rifles accuracy.

 

You have to remember that no factory rifle uses (as far as I know Lilja barrels), in fact the only factory rifle that uses a "quality" barrel is the RPA interceptor for that matter.

 

Cheytac use LAwton barrels and actions but they are hardly classed as "factory" rifles, before some bright spark chirps up

 

Now Lilja use the button rifling technique for their barreling as I think do Remington - a new Lilja is circa £260 and a replacement Rem barrel is maybe £80.

 

You have to consider that the buttons used to form the rifling in Remington barrels will have produced several thousand bettween changes - I would guess that Lilja change buttons far more frequently.

 

Then you have the different qualities in steel used - I would suggest that Lilja will use a free forming steel that is stress relieved before and after the button is pressed through the barrel blank, they then hand lap the barrels, which will produce a nice smooth finish, that is more resiliant to wear than the finnished Remington barrel.

 

Thats should go some way to explaing the differences in manufacturing and end user costs.

 

 

Trying to debate the differences in accuracy potential bettween the two are equally pointless as no one rifle is exactly the same (especially factory rifles which have been subjected to mass production machinery)

 

I wonder how long it takes Remington, Sako or Tikka to chamber a tube in one of their factories - I hazzard a guess at a few minutes at most.

 

This is something that requires patience, skill and accurate machining.

 

Accuracy is not just down to the quality (or not) of a barrel, its a combination of action trueness (concentricity with boreline), the action / barrel interface (threads and trueness of the action face with the barrel shoulder), the trueness of the bolt lugs, the squareness of the muzzle, the action bedding and just as importantly the quality and consistancy of the ammunition put in the rifle.

 

I accept that if a barrels rifling is so rough it strips the jacket the rifle isnt going to be a shooter, but no one factor can really be singled out as the one determining factor for accuracy if all others are discounted - not in factory rifles anyway

 

 

It may have been better if Dan posted the video as "a standard factory barrel against one of our own" - my assumption is he used a Remington as they are the biggest player in the US rifle market. No other reason than that.

 

 

Err

 

Stepping down from soap box now...

 

 

 

Sorry for rant, reading "Rifle ACcuracy The Facts" by Vaughn at the moment - absolutely riveted to it, just cannot put it down

[Redfox]

Ronin

The normal Rem barrels are hammer forged over a mandrel the 40x and 40xr etc are button rifled as are some of the rimfires.

There are followers of both methods and of course the cut rifling too.

I know the sako barrels are hammer forged ( dont know about their target rifles), a lot would depend on the quality of mandrel and how it is treated and when it is considered worn out?

As you and I both have said its down to money at the end of the day. The likes of remington have to produce and sell thousands a year to keep the factory open and people in jobs, cant do that on custom spec rifles and barrels because they would all be over two grand and sales small.

Most are quite happy with 1-1.5 inches at 100 yds and most will do it.

Redfox