Guest varmartin Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Not wanting to Hyjack Craigyboys Thread and For those interested in the calculation, the most reliable values I could find for the linear coefficients of thermal expansion for brass and gray cast iron are 0.0000199/degree C and 0.0000105/degree C respectively (from the ASM Metals Reference Book). So if a one-meter long leg of a brass triangle "monkey" were cooled -200 degrees C, it would shrink unconstrained by 0.00398 m, or about 4 mm. And a one-meter long row of cast iron cannonballs would shrink less, about 0.0021 m, or about 2 mm. The difference between these two contractions is obviously about 2 mm (1.88 mm without rounding), an order of magnitude larger than the "quarter of a millimetre" in the cited article. Not a big deal, and not a large enough difference to invalidate the conclusion that the nautical cannonball explanation for the expression cannot hold up, but when science is invoked, the calculations should at least be the right order of magnitude. In actuality, the outward force of the cannonballs pushing along the leg of the brass triangle would prevent the brass from contracting the full 4 mm, and the inward force of the triangle along the row of cannonballs adjacent to the brass leg would cause the cast iron balls to contract more than the calculated 2 mm. The joint contraction for both the cannonballs and the triangle leg probably would be about 2 to 3 mm. And a temperature change of -200 C is too extreme to be plausible. A temperature of -100 C (equal to -180 F) probably is larger than any ship on the high seas would be expected to experience, which would decrease the maximum expected shrinkage to about 1 to 1.5 mm, even less likely than 2 to 3 mm to cause the cannonballs to fall off/out of the triangle (whether or not it was called a "monkey") but still greater than 1/4 mm. Perhaps the textbooks on co-efficients need revising and anyway. if you packed the cannonballs tight enough (sub 1mm gap) and placed a small oxy-acetelene torch with the jet directed into the pyramid to keep them warm, (entirely plausible as they sometimes used to heat shot to maximise it's destructive power against fortifications) ; wouldn't accidentally dropping a keg of liquid nitrogen on the deck (missing the pyramid of shot) cause them to pop out? You wouldn't read of such a situation actually happening because the likely destructive effect would kill any witnesses and the oxy torch and the thermally insulated cannister would be blown through the porthole on the gun deck in the explosion. Perhaps the expression started as "cold enough to freeze the superheated balls off a supercooled brass monkey"? Actually "brass" is a slang term for prostitute (as in the need to give her some coinage to have sex) and a "monkey" was a cabin boy, so a "brass monkey" might be a cabin boy that sold sexual favours. On a ship, it might be necessary to go either into the cold-store or the forecastle to do such a thing in private and so perhaps these brass-monkeys used to suffer frostbite on the extremities. if the brass-monkey was the active not passive part of the duo, the risk of exposure to the testicles ("balls") would support it being a nautical term for being very cold and it might have been a kindly warning to such catamites. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Blooming heck Martin you certainly got your professor head on tonight!!! Blooming lost me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :blink: You haven't been taking the wrong tablets too!!!!!!!!!! :lol: All the best................... RAY.................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Four Codine Phosphate and two Hedex and a litre of Cherry Coke mate....Part from that Im Right onnnn.... Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Four Codine Phosphate and two Hedex and a litre of Cherry Coke mate....Part from that Im Right onnnn.... Martin Thats Jamies medicine - you got them mixed up with yours!!!!!!!!!!!! :blink: :lol: All the best........... RAY.......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxing2night Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Bloody hell boys!!! So thats why me balls shrink in the winter!!!!! And i pee on me last two fingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 F2N, It also helps if ya turn your back to the wind. Varmartin, Codine and caffiene...one picks ya up and the other brings ya down Ya trying to go sideways? Sis's "whatever" had an expression...."It's colder than a well diggers ass." He made that comment to me one morning for duck season. I replied back...."I wouldnt know, I generally make it a point to sleep with women," That was the last time I heard him make that comment. 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 trust you martin and yeh he does crab sideways they tested it on mythbusters and proved it perhaps the brass shrunk and popped the balls out???????????????? anyhows it was a myth not busted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 trust you martin and yeh he does crab sideways they tested it on mythbusters and proved it perhaps the brass shrunk and popped the balls out???????????????? anyhows it was a myth not busted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 I seen a cornish sign once that said " if you cant convince em, confuse em" that would explain a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Been crabbing side ways for a while...I think me Axle`s twisted.... Ya just gotta laugh !! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Or your clutch is slippin... 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 308, did you mean your crutch was slipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 ?? W T F ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 308, did you mean your crutch was slipping All I know is ...if I had to take 4 codiene tabs.....A whole lotta things would be slippin. Includin the bed... 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Ronin...W T F ... :lol: :lol: Its a stupid moment thing... My head was spinning so much...I couldn`t lay on the floor with out holding on.. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 yes it was his crutch slipping and the crabs he caught from ray make him crab sideways (their big bloody crabs) or its him doing his mincing walk as usual just stay outa the way of his hand bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 yes it was his crutch slipping and the crabs he caught from ray make him crab sideways (their big bloody crabs) or its him doing his mincing walk as usual just stay outa the way of his hand bag Hello darling , the other day you said you liked my furry handbag!!!!! Sorry that was the fox!!!!!!!!!!! All the best.................. RAY......................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 and what time will we expect you round then????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 About 7.30 ish Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilishdave Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 A few good points made there but if you add percipitation to the mix and consider how much that will expand when it freezes perhaps we now have a senario where the balls will fall out especialy added to the rock and roll of the ship. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 It has never be proven or dis-proven for that matter, but the storage of cannon balls on deck would have been most unusual. As they were made from cast iron corrosion would have been an issue, also cannon balls rolling around on the deck in the rain, snow or any thing else falling from the heavens would have been dangerous to say the least. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfox Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 This is a realistic summary http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/cold%20...s%20monkey.html In reality they used chain shot, grape shot and many others, stored in wooden boxes or trays with c arrying handles to bring them up from the magazine. Storing cannon balls in pyramids or trays with holes would have left them helpless as everyone would have been on top of a cannon or hanging from ropes in the deck head to prevent their bare feet getting crushed by the balls rolling all over the deck as the ship pitched and rolled! another urban myth Redfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 "Amidships was a plethora of personal items for the 100 man crew including clothing, shoes, and buttons. Aft of this was the shot locker filled with cannon balls. The officers' quarters in the stern were completely blown to bits as this was where the destructive charges were laid when the ship was scuttled." http://ina.tamu.edu/defence/defence.htm Has a good underwater pic of the shot garlands... 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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