well got the 17 fb back at last.

[22/250 foxer]

well got back from holiday in north Devon on saturday.and then had the gun smith call to say the tikka m595 action I gave him along with a unchambered shilen stainless match barrel had been fitted,chambered,screw cut and crowned, invisible thread cap and proofed.

 

was going to have the barrel bead blasted but I prefer it stainless. instead of dull grey. and if it gets all marked when out in the field a quick rub down with some wet and dry soon brings the marks off.

 

off to reloading solutions on Thursday to get the remaining reloading bits and bobs for it and cleaning items. then I will do some load testing for it. had the shilen 1 in 10 twist barrel threaded m14x1 for my ase cqb mod. and finished at 23 inches. 20 grain vmax and some h332 should get me what i want from it.

 

after reading the threads on here about problems getting the fireballs to feed. richard the gunsmith said he had got the tikka m595 to feed.

i know the sako a1 and sako l461 feed from mag fine. as he has done a couple. the actions are perfect to as there little size makes a compact rifle. the m 595 looks massive compared to them. but sod it i had it so guessed i would use it. if worse come to worse then single shot it would be.

 

 

went over got the rifle and Richard has modded the plunger and extractor. a block at back of mag to feed the rounds in better and all is good.

or so we guessed. feeding them is not the problem its extracting that is giving the problems. when the bolt come back it is flicking the case around and catching the side of the chamber on exit.

 

he said its because the bolt face has a chamfer on it and the case is slipping up the side of that and that is what is kicking it round. if he could stop this it would eject it straight. the answer was to tac a bit of weld on the chamfer of the bolt and then machine it. this would stop the case flicking round. and then the case would exit straight :blink:

 

I was just eager to get it back and use it. so said I would keep it as it is for now. and if in future if I couldn't get on with it being single shot. I would return it for the bit of work. my idea was I don't really want to mess with the bolt as if anything happened. i prob wouldn't get one for the m595 again. and then the rifle is scrap

 

anyway enough of the going on and on here are some pics

 

[Guest richness]

Good stuff Just got a furball myself; exciting little calibre for sure

[TonyH]

That's a very pretty rifle. I'm interested in .17 Fireball myself, definitely on my "wants" list though not affordable just yet. Let us know how you get on with it in the field, load development etc.

Tony

[247sniper]

Just a quicky guys, why would you pick the fireball over a 17 Rem?? Fireball has Less muzzel energy, less fps??? Its not a funny question I just dont know the answer?

 

Lovley lookin rifle BTW, I too am interested in how you get on with it

 

 

Steve.

[TonyH]

Just a quicky guys, why would you pick the fireball over a 17 Rem?? Fireball has Less muzzel energy, less fps??? Its not a funny question I just dont know the answer?

 

Lovley lookin rifle BTW, I too am interested in how you get on with it

 

 

Steve.

I was never drawn to the original .17 Rem since early on it developed a reputation for faddiness, necessity for very frequent cleaning, etc. I think these difficulties became resolved and it has many fans. But the newer Fireball doesn't lose out much in performance and is a much more efficient round. I'm not an expert on these things and I haven't yet owned anything in a .17 chambering, but from my point of view .17 bullets are relatively short range compared with .20 or .22 cal's (note: I am not saying they are rubbish at long range!) because of the inherently lower BCs. So I'd only want a .17 for short-ish range, say out to 250 yards max, and I have it on good authority from Neil M (Dasherman) who's built and used Fireballs that the round is custom made for this distance. When I have the money I'll get him to make me one...

HTH - Tony

[22/250 foxer]

hi guys the rifle is a joy to use from what little use it has had at moment. I haven't had chance to really test some loads yet due to the grass fields on my shoots not being cut. its hard to get a place to set the target up to see !

 

so far i have just got it zeroed and am using loads at a starting point of 18 grains of h322 powder and 20 grain vmax.

 

its grouping at just under 1 inch at moment which is nothing special. but I am not to worried I know with some load testing and col adjustment I will get the group sizes down easy to 1/2.

 

the speed I was getting was very fast. over chrono average was 4033 fps which seam very fast for a start load of 18 grains ! mind it was a very warm day.

there is very little recoil and I was surprised how little noise report there is from the round with the ase cqb on the end of it.

 

 

some more testing soon as grass is cut.

[sir-slots-alot]

I was never drawn to the original .17 Rem since early on it developed a reputation for faddiness, necessity for very frequent cleaning, etc. I think these difficulties became resolved and it has many fans. But the newer Fireball doesn't lose out much in performance and is a much more efficient round. I'm not an expert on these things and I haven't yet owned anything in a .17 chambering, but from my point of view .17 bullets are relatively short range compared with .20 or .22 cal's (note: I am not saying they are rubbish at long range!) because of the inherently lower BCs. So I'd only want a .17 for short-ish range, say out to 250 yards max, and I have it on good authority from Neil M (Dasherman) who's built and used Fireballs that the round is custom made for this distance. When I have the money I'll get him to make me one...

HTH - Tony

 

 

Hi Tony.

 

With respect - the 17 Rem is capable of alot further than the 250 yrd max... although that might be the max point and squirt range.

 

Dial in with it , same as you would with any other calibre and the 17 cal is a very potent medium range varmint round.

 

At weekend my shooting bud and I were head shooting rabbits at ranges over 300 yrds - shot after shot - no real skill or major allowances needed

 

Its still special to see the shot connect , the momment the firing pin strikes and long before the bang has died down.

 

A 25 grn Vmax zipping along at over 4000 fps is deverstating at double the distance quoted - both myself and my mate have had plenty of kills upto and beyond 500 yrds.

 

 

As you say the 17 FB gives up about 200 fps in real world terms - I dont think that would make that much difference.

 

 

IMO - the 17 rems reputation was tainted over the years by claims " it was difficult to load " and needed cleaning every 3 shots "

 

most of these claims were probably unfounded anyway - Barrels , bullets and cleaning gear have moved on since then ,

 

but sh1t sticks - so the best way to ignite the 17 fire again is for manufacturers to re - invent the wheel and create a

 

new calibre , that was in all honesty was not needed.... That said I have no doubt the 17 FB will be excellent.

 

 

 

 

 

ATB

Alan

[Guest richness]

I agree with all that Alan says here

[247sniper]

ok I see what you atre saying guys, but if you were looking at getting a .17, what would you choose if there is not much diffarance between Rem and FB??

 

 

??

 

Steve.

[TonyH]

Hi Tony.

 

With respect - the 17 Rem is capable of alot further than the 250 yrd max... .......................both myself and my mate have had plenty of kills upto and beyond 500 yrds...............

ATB

Alan

 

Alan, I thought you would probably chip in, as i know you're a fan of this round, and I think I expressed my opinion with you in mind. But you're a much better than average rifleman. Realistically, using 20 and 22 cal chamberings consistently well at 400-500 yards is not easy, as we all know, and .17 cal bullets have even lower BCs so they are even trickier: it's just plain physics/ballistics that in any sort of wind they will get blown around a lot. I did not and do not say the .17 Rem is strictly a short-range round, since your experience (for one) is evidence that it performs at longer range; and a while back I read a feature in The Varmint Hunter by a guy who's a serious coyote hunter in the MidWest, who uses .17 Rem a lot and thinks it's great - lots of US hunters will say that no .17 cal is any good for coyotes, just like people here say it's not enough bullet for foxes!

IMO the .17 Fireball is designed for those who think .17 bullets are best regarded for short-ish range work, and who want something a bit more efficient powder-wise than the established .17 Rem. I'm one of those - and I'm aware that your mileage varies! I just think that the average guy who wants to shoot small varmints at a quarter mile using any .17 round will need a lot of skill and faces a steep learning curve, and will always have the odds stacked against him compared with using (say) a 75gr A-Max out of a 22-250 like you do...

Me, I just got in very wet & chilled (flaming June, hah!) from trying to zap more bunnies, but they (or the survivors after my massacre of their brethren last night) were more sensible and mostly stayed in their burrows. I saw three, and shot one - with the .22 rimfire.

Regards, Tony

[Si-Snipe]

Alan, I thought you would probably chip in, as i know you're a fan of this round, and I think I expressed my opinion with you in mind. But you're a much better than average rifleman. Realistically, using 20 and 22 cal chamberings consistently well at 400-500 yards is not easy, as we all know, and .17 cal bullets have even lower BCs so they are even trickier: it's just plain physics/ballistics that in any sort of wind they will get blown around a lot.

 

The .17 cal 25g Vmax is the bullet of choice without a doubt. With a BC of 0.23 it can beat the 32g .20cal bullets (0.21 BC) and with the additional speed over the 39g Blitzkings it can match the ballistics of the .204 Ruger out to 500yds near enough. Now compare that to the lighter .224 and you can not say that it's performs worse than them.

Compare it to a mid weight bullet say 50g Vmax (.224) fired in .223 case. It has a slightly better BC of .242 (compared to 0.23 of 25g Vmax) but is travelling much slower at say 3500 f/s (compared to 4000 f/s) so the .17 wins in the ballistic war out the ranges mentioned.

I compared mine directly to my friends .204 running 39g SBK's at 3750 f/s at 412yds. We both put the same windage on (it was 12-15mph FV wind) and fired at the same time and they both landed in the same spot and I always match their windage and they share mine if I make first shot hits etc.

It's very under-rated IMO but obviously no match for bigger cals with high BC.

[sir-slots-alot]

Alan, I thought you would probably chip in, as i know you're a fan of this round, and I think I expressed my opinion with you in mind. But you're a much better than average rifleman. Realistically, using 20 and 22 cal chamberings consistently well at 400-500 yards is not easy, as we all know, and .17 cal bullets have even lower BCs so they are even trickier: it's just plain physics/ballistics that in any sort of wind they will get blown around a lot. I did not and do not say the .17 Rem is strictly a short-range round, since your experience (for one) is evidence

 

lots of US hunters will say that no .17 cal is any good for coyotes, just like people here say it's not enough bullet for foxes!

IMO the .17 Fireball is designed for those who think .17 bullets are best regarded for short-ish range work, and who want something a bit more efficient powder-wise than the established .17 Rem. I'm one of those

I just think that the average guy who wants to shoot small varmints at a quarter mile using any .17 round will need a lot of skill and faces a steep learning curve, and will always have the odds stacked against him compared with using (say) a 75gr A-Max out of a 22-250 like you do....

Regards, Tony

 

 

 

Tony

 

There are indeed much better long range calibres out there than the 17 rem or the Fur Ball

 

if somebody is thinking of a specific long range rifle - you are betting on the wrong nag - but that also includes the 20

 

cals and standard twist 22 cals BTW. ( as i think Si made the point very well ).

 

My 22.250 lauching 75 Amax is a far better long range tool - and for the pleasure I use an extra 14.5 grs of powder per shot

 

The majority of the people who buy the 17 cf (IMO ) wont have a clue about long range shooting or dialling in and Ballistic

 

co-efficients ETC. - why should they - set your rifle to shoot 1 inch high at 100 yrds and you have a 4 inch drop at 300 yrs

 

If you use the same principals of correcting for drop and drift that we use with other small cf calibre - the 17 is

 

caperable of alot more.

 

As you know I am a fan of the little 17 rem - it puts the biggest fox down with authority - punching far above its weight.

 

It has the manners of a HMR yet has the ability to reward you with instant kills on small vermin 5 football fields away.

 

It is finnicky to load for - precision and consistancy is key - small differences in seating depth or powder charge that

 

would normally not make any difference to most cals - the 17 will spit its dummy straight out of the pram.

 

 

Anyway good luck Jamie with your new FB I am sure you will have a lot of fun.

 

 

 

ATB

Alan

[Guest richness]

ok I see what you atre saying guys, but if you were looking at getting a .17, what would you choose if there is not much diffarance between Rem and FB??

 

 

??

 

Steve.

 

Directly in answer to this Q:

myself, it depends on usage. I am looking for an HMR replacement. By that i mean a truck gun. Low mag scope. Quick handling. I can now shoot rabbits and crows with it but have a fox-capable gun in my hands without switching.

For that the FB is seriously QUIET, v efficient when using the excellent .23BC 25gr Vmax

On the other hand, if i didn't have a 204 and i wanted a medium range vermin gun, 17Rem is amazing. You're talking about .23 BC at 4000fps. Plug that in. That is up there with 204R ballistically, and that is tidy. It is v quiet, accurate and well, what's not to like? but my decision was biased by my useage and at the end of the day i prioritised the reduction in noise, powder etc against 200fps extra that the Rem would give. I also will be putting a hell of a lot of rounds through it each month and any extra barrel life helps with the cooler round.

I am not of the opinion that the 17rem fouls badly and is hard to live with. The one i've been using has a match barrel on which must surely help but it is not load or ogive fussy and refuses to shoot much more than .5moa with almost any load and used to shoot 50+ rounds without getting into trouble at all. Still i went FB simply because it fitted better into my selection of calibres.

ATB Rich

[Guest richness]

The .17 cal 25g Vmax is the bullet of choice without a doubt. With a BC of 0.23 it can beat the 32g .20cal bullets (0.21 BC) and with the additional speed over the 39g Blitzkings it can match the ballistics of the .204 Ruger out to 500yds near enough. Now compare that to the lighter .224 and you can not say that it's performs worse than them.

Compare it to a mid weight bullet say 50g Vmax (.224) fired in .223 case. It has a slightly better BC of .242 (compared to 0.23 of 25g Vmax) but is travelling much slower at say 3500 f/s (compared to 4000 f/s) so the .17 wins in the ballistic war out the ranges mentioned.

I compared mine directly to my friends .204 running 39g SBK's at 3750 f/s at 412yds. We both put the same windage on (it was 12-15mph FV wind) and fired at the same time and they both landed in the same spot and I always match their windage and they share mine if I make first shot hits etc.

It's very under-rated IMO but obviously no match for bigger cals with high BC.

 

Yep, if you get one with a 1/9 so that the 25gr vmax will stabilise, it is a tidy calibre that moderates amazingly well.

The fact that the bullet is small is nothing to do with anything. It is BC and speed that are the factors. If i had to choose between a 50gr 223 and a 17rem with 25gr vmax, there'd be no hesitation on my part

[Guest richness]

Well pleased with how this calibre is shaping up: 30 shots today at 3700fps without any pressure signs at all and then barely a hint of copper. Great stuff

[Gandy]

Hope you enjoy the rifle and a very interesting thread.

[Guest Scotland_Rifles]

been looking to sell my 17 hmr to get a FB as well. but the market place is smothered with 17HMR's for sale,

 

i think that the wee 17HMR is having a hard time of it with the cost of its ammo just now, the cost here in a well known local shop is £17.50 per box of 50, now if thats not a rip off i don't know what is,

 

i think speed never really comes into it for me as accuracy is tops, its great to go fast but if you can't his a coo in the Rs with a bat why bother with it getting there faster than your mates rifle .JMO.

i fancy the 17 FB for a couple of reasons and thats the following.

1, if i burn out the .20 cal its still a handy wee rifle for the same tasks etc,

2, i like to think that having to load it myself it slows the trigger finger down a bit as well.

3, and it hits a bit harder when it needs too.

 

anyway, i hope who ever gets the one i was after enjoys it ,

 

just miffed ill miss the one i had my eye one 5h1t happens

 

bob.

[Guest richness]

The .17 cal 25g Vmax is the bullet of choice without a doubt. With a BC of 0.23 it can beat the 32g .20cal bullets (0.21 BC) and with the additional speed over the 39g Blitzkings it can match the ballistics of the .204 Ruger out to 500yds near enough. Now compare that to the lighter .224 and you can not say that it's performs worse than them.

Compare it to a mid weight bullet say 50g Vmax (.224) fired in .223 case. It has a slightly better BC of .242 (compared to 0.23 of 25g Vmax) but is travelling much slower at say 3500 f/s (compared to 4000 f/s) so the .17 wins in the ballistic war out the ranges mentioned.

I compared mine directly to my friends .204 running 39g SBK's at 3750 f/s at 412yds. We both put the same windage on (it was 12-15mph FV wind) and fired at the same time and they both landed in the same spot and I always match their windage and they share mine if I make first shot hits etc.

It's very under-rated IMO but obviously no match for bigger cals with high BC.

 

Talking about getting your rifle to shoot faster than your mate's (coughs) How about a 39sbk at 3950 from a 204R buddy? 3750 is so last month

[Guest Scotland_Rifles]

Talking about getting your rifle to shoot faster than your mate's (coughs) How about a 39sbk at 3950 from a 204R buddy? 3750 is so last month

 

love it.

 

bob.

[Si-Snipe]

Talking about getting your rifle to shoot faster than your mate's (coughs) How about a 39sbk at 3950 from a 204R buddy? 3750 is so last month

 

Last month your primers didn't drop out of the pockets.

[Guest richness]

Last month your primers didn't drop out of the pockets.

 

well it was a hot day As long as i keep that fridge in my car running flat out with my bullets in it, what you complaining about? !

[Si-Snipe]

well it was a hot day As long as i keep that fridge in my car running flat out with my bullets in it, what you complaining about? !

 

I know where you got that idea from.

[CZ Varminter]

A little observation mate what does the Mrs say about you spending more time taking pictures of your rifle on your bed than her!? ;-)

[foxing2night]

Really nice looking rifle!!!!

Should give you hours of fun,,,

 

Keep the info coming guys,,,,

 

Always nice to spot your shots, sometimes cant always do that with the bigger cal,s???

 

Darrel

[22/250 foxer]

anyone who uses the 20 grain vmax notice there is a lot of inconsistency in there lengths. i checked 20 of them today and some are 5 to 6 tho longer then the others

 

not so bad to the ogive though which is good at least. im going to get some 25 grain berger match to try out. i shot a jackdaw off a fence post today. only 80 to 90 yards. but the puff of feathers was good to see