centrefire for foxing

[Alycidon]

I must laugh to myself at all of the shooters who shoot a .20 who try to defend it so hard that they get very defensive!

No one is saying its not a good cal, for crows and rabbits it is an excellent cal but for a dedicated fox round there are better out there.

Scenario, shooting through stubble, long grass, rushes etc those little 32-39 grain bullets are going to smash up on grass etc before delivering full killing power to fox.

I have had 65gr Vmax in 6mm do that in a rape stubble.

 

A

[gbal]

I have had 65gr Vmax in 6mm do that in a rape stubble.

 

A

460 weatherby then? Seriously,almost any bullet can be deflected-the 'brush busters' tend not to be that great when tested!

But that is not the only consideration-we are talking about bits of lead travelling at some speed through our countryside, in the dark usually.

Perhaps shots should not be taken through likely deflectors. Or if there is some (safe?) deflection from the target,you just have to accept that,occasionally,or not take the shot. Much enhanced energy is not the acceptable answer,and FLO's tend to agree.

george

[Alycidon]

460 weatherby then? Seriously,almost any bullet can be deflected-the 'brush busters' tend not to be that great when tested!

But that is not the only consideration-we are talking about bits of lead travelling at some speed through our countryside, in the dark usually.

Perhaps shots should not be taken through likely deflectors. Or if there is some (safe?) deflection from the target,you just have to accept that,occasionally,or not take the shot. Much enhanced energy is not the acceptable answer,and FLO's tend to agree.

george

 

The shot was as safe as it gets, in the bottom of a large glaciated valley, 600 yards from a road. I had not seen the rape stick until I followed up on the shot looking for blood, had I seen it I would have waited for the fox to move. The bullet must have hit it, hard to miss sideways on with a PPC at 80 yards !!. Since then anything in rape stubble gets a match bullet irrespective of what caliber I have in my hands, no issues since.

 

A

[gbal]

The shot was as safe as it gets, in the bottom of a large glaciated valley, 600 yards from a road. I had not seen the rape stick until I followed up on the shot looking for blood, had I seen it I would have waited for the fox to move. The bullet must have hit it, hard to miss sideways on with a PPC at 80 yards !!. Since then anything in rape stubble gets a match bullet irrespective of what caliber I have in my hands, no issues since.

 

A

Hi-my comment was not critical of any specific incident,as the circumstances were not given.

But a one off when a bullet hits an unseen solid object isn't really a criticism or even comment on the frangibility or otherwise of lighter bullets (in grass!),which was being claimed (not by you!),and your comment seemed to rather endorse that,with a heavier bullet.But you have made the incident clear-not just grass. Interesting though- sometimes intervening small objects are not seen-high mag scopes and poor light don't help here.I suppose a match bullet might be less frangible,but most objective tests show even quite heavy hunting bullets (6mm and up) are quite vulnerable to deflection,at least by big twigs. I agree completely on the ppc-if only you had known,you could have put the next bullet clear through the hole the first made without touching!!

 

george

[^varmints^]

i was zeroing yesterday and the same thing happened a bramble sent the bullets off course, i was using a meopta artemis 2000, anybody notice they dont hold zero well, my zero was completely off considering i have been load testing and having to zero each time i use it.

[6.5shooter]

Hi-my comment was not critical of any specific incident,as the circumstances were not given.

But a one off when a bullet hits an unseen solid object isn't really a criticism or even comment on the frangibility or otherwise of lighter bullets (in grass!),which was being claimed (not by you!),and your comment seemed to rather endorse that,with a heavier bullet.But you have made the incident clear-not just grass. Interesting though- sometimes intervening small objects are not seen-high mag scopes and poor light don't help here.I suppose a match bullet might be less frangible,but most objective tests show even quite heavy hunting bullets (6mm and up) are quite vulnerable to deflection,at least by big twigs. I agree completely on the ppc-if only you had known,you could have put the next bullet clear through the hole the first made without touching!!

 

george

 

 

Hi,

These circumstances arent a 'one off' as you put it.

Foxing is a hunting situation in many elements in many different situations shooting animals under lamp.

This is not benchrest where it is shot on a nice range where the grass has been cut.

Those who shoot enough foxes wont have this pleasure.

[gbal]

Hi,

These circumstances arent a 'one off' as you put it.

Foxing is a hunting situation in many elements in many different situations shooting animals under lamp.

This is not benchrest where it is shot on a nice range where the grass has been cut.

Those who shoot enough foxes wont have this pleasure.

" since then...no issues since" sounds rather like a one off to me.

But of course some deflection of bullet is hardly rare if something is in the way-see varmint's 'bramble incident' on here.

Sorry if you can't put two ppc shots in the same hole-I'd be the first to admit BR isn't for everyone,and that degreee of precision is neither needed nor attainable under field conditions,and have said so often on this forum.It was a joke,and more importantly, a compliment to your choice of cartridge, as I can't see why anyone would choose ppc unless near ultimate accuracy was important to them. Perhaps I was generous. Some people have managed both shooting experiences(BR and fox) but neither is essential to the other.I dare say a few BR shooters have 'missed' their target at 100,even 1000,yards and cross shot their neighbours target,,but I hope your fox misses at 80 yards are rare,if not one off. Bench Rest don't have such large 'targets' of course,and a fraction of an inch matters.

george

[skany]

I've used 20r 223 22-250 243ai 6br for fox

My 6 br has got to be my favorite so far

Velocity and stopping of 22-250 with much reduced recoil so I always can confirm I've droped my target without a moddy on!

 

I use a amber filter on a 170 and find it works like a rangefinder if I can see fox and back stop I don't have to worry about holdover!

 

Can't stand white light !

Cheers Andy

[CZ Varminter]

No argument with the facts. Nicely put.

If home loading why use a 40gr? In 22-250. I use 55gr SBK's. Ideal. Point and shoot out to 220yrds. I have used .223 also very versatile little round. So too be honest I doubt believe you could go wrong with either. My pennies worth have heard a lot of good stuff for 220 swift and .222 but honestly mate don't get wrapped up in all the insanity that are calibres. Lol

[CZ Varminter]

I've used 20r 223 22-250 243ai 6br for fox

My 6 br has got to be my favorite so far

Velocity and stopping of 22-250 with much reduced recoil so I always can confirm I've droped my target without a moddy on!

 

I use a amber filter on a 170 and find it works like a rangefinder if I can see fox and back stop I don't have to worry about holdover!

 

Can't stand white light !

Cheers Andy

Second that. Green filters work well also.

[Andy R]

Same for me 140, on foot, amber or green filter, if I can see its a fox, then I'm in range. Lamp off, nitesite on, rifle up, Leopold vx3 4-14 x56, set at six mag, off sticks, lamp on the fox for 2 seconds then all over 8 to 10 seconds later, howa 223. As a beginner to foxing year before last, I've not missed one, and every one has been dead on the spot. Longest shot 110 yards measured, I would trust my ability to go much further. But as I'm in wales being on foot is the only real option as much of the ground is steep with lots of gates and fences, on a quad you'd be forever jumping on and off the thing....plus stops me getting fatter than I already am.

 

So 223 for me,

 

Andy r

[M18bul]

I use a 243 for my fixing buddy, did have a 22-250 when I was ft keeper but found that the 243 with 75g btip held up better I'm the wind and has better stopping power than any of the 22 cf

[roadkill61]

It is my experiance that if you burn out a 22-250 then you have had a lot off fun up to that point and they make new barrels everyday. Those people that keep toting the 223 as the be all cheep to shoot should perhaps shoot air rifles. If a 204R won't get it done than move up to a 22-250. A 20br will down right flaten a 223AI if you want to get specialised with non factory. My 2p after shooting thousands of varmints and predators.

[pork chop]

It is my experiance that if you burn out a 22-250 then you have had a lot off fun up to that point and they make new barrels everyday. Those people that keep toting the 223 as the be all cheep to shoot should perhaps shoot air rifles. If a 204R won't get it done than move up to a 22-250. A 20br will down right flaten a 223AI if you want to get specialised with non factory. My 2p after shooting thousands of varmints and predators.

whats wrong with cheap to shoot not everybody wants to or can rebarrel .theres probably people who want a rifle to last all their shooting life ,so for me the 223 has always got to be up there for one of the best foxing rounds out there and its also got to be one if the most versatile aswell.

[kent]

It is my experiance that if you burn out a 22-250 then you have had a lot off fun up to that point and they make new barrels everyday. Those people that keep toting the 223 as the be all cheep to shoot should perhaps shoot air rifles. If a 204R won't get it done than move up to a 22-250. A 20br will down right flaten a 223AI if you want to get specialised with non factory. My 2p after shooting thousands of varmints and predators.

Thing is were do you stop? there is always something faster that takes less wind. 223 is a very practical choice and the real limiting factor between a .223 and the very fastest highest BC bullet ever developed is always the nut behind the butt

[Alycidon]

Distance is the key, how often do you need to shoot over 250 yards at a fox and how advanced do you want your reloading to become.

 

Personally I use 20BR, very specialised cartridge, yet I doubt I have shot any more than half a dozen over 250 yards, its 94% kills to carts on foxes since new so I do miss a few but not many. My kill rate with 22.250 was far worse (70% ish) but that particular rifle was not that accurate.

 

If most of your stuff is 80-200 yards then 222/223/204 will all do a good job. More reach look at the 204 harder or the bigger cased 20s.

 

A

[mountain varminter]

well all c/f i used for foxing are 17rem 204r 22hornet and 6.5x55, i now use a 220 swift and 243win i also have fox on my 30/30 and 270 they all do the job very well, on here its seems to be mines better than yours because this is what i have , me myself, if thats what you have and are happy with it all good and well , i will be out stalking next week with the 30/30 and then go on to lamping later on do feel i should have my 220 swift or 243win no i don,t for me its all about the skill as a hunter some times we should leave the rifles in the house and just take a shotgun to see how skilled we really are , working a fox in from a long distance to nearly buy my feet gives me a big smile ,this year i not be shooting anything over 120 yrds i like to test my skill and fieldcraft atvb steve

 

[gbal]

Thing is were do you stop? there is always something faster that takes less wind. 223 is a very practical choice and the real limiting factor between a .223 and the very fastest highest BC bullet ever developed is always the nut behind the butt

Granted some just drive on through the amber light,but there is for most an envelope of appropriate performance for specific quarry/distance.For fox its the 22 cfs(but not 22 air rifle,however cheap-though many are not!)-and nothing wrong with the 223,or 222 and similar.Most lamping foxes will be shot at under 200 yards anyhow.There is a case of course for 6mm etc-eg much longer range on open moorland etc.

There is always something faster(though not per se better)-and see the current obsession with minor BC variations,which just don't matter at the above distances,and are minor anyhow compared to other factors.(one big one is the nut!).Cheap is a relative term-maybe about 10p per shot reloading 223 and 6mm? You need to be shooting a whole heap of fox for that to amount to much-esp given the goodies typically added to rifles.

There isn't anything that takes enough less wind to really be a breakthrough,nor is such likely with the current laws of physics-cf gravity and distance-and we won't be getting a wind reader anytime soon-but it really isn't needed.

Small varmints at considerably longer range are a quite different proposition,but again the 223 in competent hands-read can judge wind well and count elevation clicks-will be ok to maybe 300. It's not my favourite cartridge,but it serves many shooters quite well-when they know how to use it.

george