njc110381 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hey guys. I'm just thinking of getting some loading kit together for the new .223. It's a 1/12 twist barrel and I'm after as flat a trajectory as I can get. What I don't understand is the effects of bullet weight on accuracy at range. As target rounds seem to be in the 70 grain area I'm assuming the lighter ones get bullied by wind more? I've spotted some Berger varmint 30 grain bullets that I think will shoot really flat, but I'm not sure if they're supposed to be fired at .223 pace? Are they hornet bullets? Also, will the large hollow point make them a poor choice for longer range? I'm a bit lost on this subject, so what would you suggest? 40grn V-Max seem popular, and you can also get a 35grn version. I'll be shooting mainly Rabbits, Crows and some Foxes too. The Crows will be shot at range across a small valley, maybe 300 yards? Wind could be an issue on that permission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davo Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 30gr seems a bit light for a .223, I would go with 50-55gr that will cover everything you've mentioned you want to shoot, saying that though a Friend of mine has had very good success with the 36gr Barnes varmint grenades and they are really travelling through the air at a reported 4000+fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I was thinking a 50grn bullet would be a bit heavy. I'd really like to get the flattest trajectory possible, but with a reasonable ability to fly accurately in the wind. Is 50grn quite flat shooting then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 When you say FLAT SHOOTING, what is it your looking for???? How far are you looking to shoot??? I use 50grain in my .222 and rabbits at 300 yards dont like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 You will have to make some compromises on the way to finding a wind resistant flat shooting load. I have shot the 60 Vmax in my .223 for some time, awesome up to 300 yards. I then stepped up to 75 Amax for very long range shooting. Most recently I had the opportunity to try a friends load of 52 Amax. I will say that those 52 Amax were if not better than most of the other loads I have fired in my sako 75 .223 The lighter the projectile / and the faster you push it the flatter it will shoot, but it will usually be affected more by the wind. I would find the highest BC bullet in your chosen weight you can lay your hands on and work up a load. Then Crono that load and build a drop chart, and from a Ballistics program work out your windage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I doubt I'll ever shoot over 300 yards myself. What I'm after is something I can just aim and fire without worrying about range too much. I'm ok at air rifle ranges, but then after that I'm stuck. As I get out to 100 yards or more, I'm often miles out! I want to just point the gun and pull the trigger for as far as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyboy Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 The nosler 40g ballistic tip seems a great .224 calibre choice, very high bc for the weight and should go out of the barrel pretty fast, I am going to try them in the 22-250 when it gets here, should handle the wind resonably as well maybe not as good as a 52g a-max but as martin said you will have to comprimise, with your rifle being 1-12 twist you might not be able to go much past 55g bullets, not sure though dont knwo much about the .223. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I doubt I'll ever shoot over 300 yards myself. What I'm after is something I can just aim and fire without worrying about range too much. I'm ok at air rifle ranges, but then after that I'm stuck. As I get out to 100 yards or more, I'm often miles out! I want to just point the gun and pull the trigger for as far as possible Sorry mate but that's not going to happen. There are so many variables involved............ What is your self imposed maximum range??? What range are you zeroing your rifle at??? Do you have a Laser Range finder?? What scope do you have on your .223?? Then you have to ask yourself, how far can i shoot to ensure a CLEAN KILL??? Can i put my 1st shot in a 1" dot at 100 yards, or better still 200 yards??? If the answer is NO, get out there and shoot at paper until you can. Not teaching a Granny to suck eggs and all that. When i first started with the .222 i always got closer(because of my many years with an air-rifle), but as you gain more experience the range extends but the most important thing is knowing the MAXIMUM RANGE YOU CAN ACCUARATELY SHOOT AT..... I know i can shoot sub MOA at 300 yards so taking shots at that range is a challenge, but i make sure i have a solid rest (always use a bi-od now), and if i'm not happy leave it for another day.. Take a look here http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 njc, it would probably help if you did more range estimation exercises as well as shooting at known distance. If you have a friend with, or access to, a range finder have a wander about and judge as if shooting distance to features, trees etc. You will be surprised how easy certain targets are and how hard others are. Then check it. Pace it if you have to. Colour, light and dead ground plus other items soon fool you. Even homeloading will not make a round flat shoot as such and you will enter the poorer accuracy but mines faster than yours group A fast miss is a miss! a slow hit is super Drops are easier to correct for than wind ( providing you can judge the range) so concentrate more on the wind effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I can shoot inside an inch at 100 yards with my Tikka if I use the ammo it likes (off a bag). I figured the main front end of a mature rabbit is more than 3" so a front end shot will kill it? I like the point about drop not changing but wind being a constant variable, that's a really good point! I'm not planning to shoot that far yet, but I aim to once I get used to the gun. I want to build a load that will be good enough for the future, to save having to change it. Kip, you're not talking to a granny mate. I'm more a baby in this sport, so if I need a lesson in sucking eggs then you just say the word! I'm here to learn, not pretend I know it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I can shoot inside an inch at 100 yards with my Tikka if I use the ammo it likes (off a bag). I figured the main front end of a mature rabbit is more than 3" so a front end shot will kill it? I like the point about drop not changing but wind being a constant variable, that's a really good point! I'm not planning to shoot that far yet, but I aim to once I get used to the gun. I want to build a load that will be good enough for the future, to save having to change it. Kip, you're not talking to a granny mate. I'm more a baby in this sport, so if I need a lesson in sucking eggs then you just say the word! I'm here to learn, not pretend I know it all Not a problem mate, we all have to start somewhere. Where you say that a front end of a rabbit is about 3", that's not what your aiming for, go for the vitals, so a head/chest shot is a max of 2"... I know a high velocity SP/BT bullet will be devastating but go for the vitals I would strongly recommend a Laser Range Finder to add to your kit, it's surprising how far off you can be. If you fancy meeting up over the summer, your not that far from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 If you fancy meeting up over the summer, your not that far from me That would be cool. You're welcome to have a look at my permission and bring a gun. Some of my land owners don't like me bringing guests, but a couple of others couldn't care less. I shoot with my mentor a bit and he's teaching me a lot, but I'm always up for meeting new shooters and sharing ideas (not that you'll learn much from me!). I'll stick to 150 yard shots for now just to be safe. It seems silly to whack a rabbit with a .223 at that range though, the HMR is plenty good enough for that on a calm day. I'll try some V-Max bullets I think, something in the 40-50grn range. My local shop stocks them. Edited to say or I could come to you if you'd rather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 That would be cool. You're welcome to have a look at my permission and bring a gun. Some of my land owners don't like me bringing guests, but a couple of others couldn't care less. I shoot with my mentor a bit and he's teaching me a lot, but I'm always up for meeting new shooters and sharing ideas (not that you'll learn much from me!). I'll stick to 150 yard shots for now just to be safe. It seems silly to whack a rabbit with a .223 at that range though, the HMR is plenty good enough for that on a calm day. I'll try some V-Max bullets I think, something in the 40-50grn range. My local shop stocks them. Edited to say or I could come to you if you'd rather Your more than welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Thanks. I look forward to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streeker59 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Njc, In my experience your 1 in 12" twist wont deal with anything longer than a 60 grain flat based pill. Well not if you want tack driving accuracy anyway. I use Sierra 60grn flat based varmint bullets in my 1 in 12 to devastaing effect. My zero is 200 yds. At 300 i aim at the head for a chest shot on a bunny. The Sierra jacket is very thin and as such even a peripheral hit is lethal. Drops mr fox like a stone... Grant.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 So you're looking at about a 4" drop from 200 to 300, that's not bad. Where does it hit at 100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 You will also need to do some reserch on the effects of wind at different distances, more things are missed by missreading the wind than the drops especially once the range creeps out. A windmeter is a nice thing to have, quite cheap from Sinclair or similar but to back it you need a drop chart with a coloum for wind drifts. Once you have decided on your bullet and know its ballistic co-efficient there are free web programs that you can use to create a chart. Just ask here if you are unable to find the B.C. . A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 I think once I'm set up I may just shoot a lot of targets at my permission at various ranges and wind speeds. That should give me a good idea of how things work. I'll check out the programmes on the web too, they sound very useful. I have a very long list of bullets and their BCs, I'm sure the V-Max will be listed as they're quite common. Thanks for all your help on this, I'm really grateful to be shown the way by people who have been shooting for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streeker59 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 So you're looking at about a 4" drop from 200 to 300, that's not bad. Where does it hit at 100? At 100 i aim at the nape of the neck and the head comes apart.. Not pretty but at 100 yds .17 HMR does the same damage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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