Advice on .243 ruger M77 mk1

[kbfife]

Hello to everybody,

 

I am new here and fairly inexperianced to centrefire rifles, so I would like to ask for some advice prior to purchasing my first .243 rifle.

As i am on a tigh budget I cant spend alot, but have seen a ruger m77 mk1 with a heavy barrel, rings and t8 fitted for £400. I put a deposit on it but now am having second thougts. Some people say its too old and will likely be shot out + mod, some say the barrel may be poor quality , some say its too expensive, some say it will be ok. I would like it to be able to shoot 1" groups @ 100. Is this realistec from such a rifle. I welcome your opinions and any info about these rifles as there is very little on the net, e.g twist rates etc.

 

regards

 

Keith.

[varminter]

Hi Keith and welcome to the site!!!

We have a great bunch of guys and girls here always wiling to help!!!

Now the best you can tell us first is what is your intended purpose for this 243 rifle and then we can try and help you in your decision!!!

All the best.......................

RAY..............................

[kbfife]

This rifle yould be primerily used for lamping foxes from a vehicle, but also stalking the odd roe, with the possibility to shoot red deer in the future, but Im not intending to shooting red deer at present.

[varminter]

Okay buddy!!!!!!!

Have you thought about a CZ , some of my friends have them and they shoot well , and do you plan to home load or plan too in the near future????

As for second hand rifles and budget, if you know the owner of the rifle and the history of the rifle ( so you know its been looked after!! ) that will help in your decision but if you have doubts about second hand may i say just save some more pennies and buy new!!!!

Hope this sheds some light on things!!!

All the best.......................

RAY..............................

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

the only one I have played with was a mk2 and was an ex-police service rifle

 

it shot very well and yes it was in 243 as this is a liked cal by several counties

 

the only trouble with 243 is that they have a rough barrel life of 2000 rounds compared tro a 308 that has any thing from 5000 to 12000+, yes 12000+, I have read of a service rifle m700 that had gone that many rounds and still groups and is still in service

 

my friend 243 mk2 hadnt been shot a lot and was identified by an extra set of numbers engraved on the side as well as the usual serial number

 

if you are new to centre fire I can only say dont be put of by the sound of a 308

 

when I first got into centre fire I like many others before and since went with 243 as it was said to be a better choice but the more I learned the more I realised that they both share the same case and powder charge (approx) the only difference being the 308 was a little larger on bullets

 

recoil while its a fact that a 243 recoils slightly less, in the field you will hardly notice the difference with the right gun

 

I recently sold a remy 700 as is because I bought the rifle as a doner rifle for a 308 project (yes it was a 243)

 

the gun I had known since it was purchased as new and had not been looked after very well and showed signs of pitting

 

I lopped off two inches from the barrel making it 24" long (a much better length in my op) and she shot well again

 

I sold her to a friend for £280 explaining that she shoots well but will need rebarrelling soon if he wanted top accuracy but he still hasnt bothered as she is still shooting well

 

her action is still like new and her stock has only one tiny scratch

 

so what I am trying to say is.....it is more likely that you will get a second hand 308 that will last you a good time and will serve you well for quite a good price

 

the money you may save, as there is proberbly more 308's out there so prices tend to be a tad better, could be put towards a good optic

 

shoot her for a while and enjoy then when you are ready its simple to get a new barrel and play around a little and have an excellent tack driver that will be good to go out to and behond 1000 and you will enjoy just blsting the that which promotes growth and vigour out of her day in day out without a care

 

however,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,rebarrel a 243 which will cost you no less and you will become obsessed with shooting her as little as poss and counting down the rounds coz she aint gonna last as long

 

I have owned I think four 243 rifles and I wont be going down that road again

 

I currently have a 7.62(same as a 308) , a 223 and a 300wm. the 762 I just shoot and enjoy and shoot well she does with kills on rabbits out to 851 yards and allways shoots well at 1000+

 

the 223 shoots really really well and has a high round life thye same as the 308/7.62

 

the 300wm has a round count roughly the same as a 243 and I hate shooting her as I now she has a limited life

 

I have a slot to buy another 308 and cant wait to spec out a build from a doner rifle and shoot the that which promotes growth and vigour out of her, a new barrel will cost around £490-£550 all in for a match grade plus the the doner

 

however if you buy a rifle thats easy to rebarrel and enjoy her for a while then the cost for you to upgrade when you are ready is far far less than a new rifle

 

hope this helps

 

ja

 

 

ps with regard to the twist for a 243 a 1 in 9 will handle upto 105 but has an opt of 87.2 and I think if my memory is any good that a mk1 had a 12 twist but I could be mistaken

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

hey ray, did I tell you cz have just launched a new big daddy version of the 527 kevlar??????

 

that sweet perfect little 223 with med/heavy bbl and puuuuuuurfect stock has a big brother in 308

 

given how my 223 shoots I might get the 308 instead of a custom

 

check out their web site she looks awsome

[kbfife]

Thanks Ray,

 

I have considered the cz and other makes, Its just that this package comes all together with the moderator. I cant really afford new. The rifle seems to look Ok, it still has sharp chequering. I do plan on home loading once I have a rifle. I dont know the history of the rifle but the shop think it has been a sleeper.

 

regards

keith

[kbfife]

Good Info Silent,

 

However I have had my heart set on the .243 for a while and the paper work is all done now, and as it is really for foxes I think the 308 may be a bit heavy and not flat enough shooting if i misjudge the distance.

 

regards

 

keith

[varminter]

No probs Keith!!!!

Dont discount what Jamie says about a 308 either because its definately worth thinking about!!!!

Jamie - Thanks i shall have a look at that!! sounds very interesting!!!!

All the best......................

RAY.......................................

[eldon]

Welcome Keith.

 

I would agree with what silent said as I also have a 308, but....... check with your FEO if you can shoot fox with it if you go this route.

Commonly forces put on your ticket fox whilst deerstalking, could be tricky if your lamping as obviously lamping deer is a no no.

 

If I was to buy a 243 which I am thinking about I don't think I would buy secondhand without known history. It's a bad calibre for throat erosion as has already been said.

 

When the moneys tight your over a barrel but with the hassle for changing make sure you get it right first go if poss.

 

Pay your money and take your choice, 243 got to be new or known for me

[kbfife]

I am all most certain fife constabulary will not allow me to have a 308 unless it was for red deer, as it was touch and go to get the 243 granted as I already have a .223 and dont really shoot many red deer. I know a gunsmith with a bore scope who could inspect the gun, the problem is I have to buy it first.

 

keith

[eldon]

Why do you have to buy it first?

 

Offer to cover the cost and get the owner or dealer to transfer it presuming the borescope man has an RFD. Pick it up with ticket or return to owner if no good.

[kbfife]

Not a bad Idea, but I will need to find out if the shop is happy to do this and also it will add to the cost. But it may save me in the long run.

 

As a side note what is the general opinion of the Meopta Artemis 2000 7 x 50, seems reasonable to me for the money and also is that sufficient on a 243 for 200y fox?

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

ok my brain is working now

 

now as I understand it the has changed to allow say a 223 to be used for cw deer and munties

 

now if you want to shoot reds in the future you will want something a little bigger than 243, not saying theres anything wrong with a well placed 243 shot but its a safer bet to put a little more lead where its needed

 

if you can get your ticket sorted for a one for one and an add on, get 308 added to your license with the intention on buying in the future say a few years

 

that way you have thew capacity to buy if you suddenly come accross a real bargain

 

swap the 243 for a 223 and get your self a brand spankers cz527 varmint laminate ( they are real beuties and around your budget

 

you can stoke the 223 up a little and shoot lighter bullets to give you flat shooting and plenty of stopping power for fox etc and be able to use it fore the small deer as long as you have a larger rifle on your ticket for deer

 

it is my understanding that they wont be accepting variations to tickets to allow small deer for people with cals under 240 used for say foxes

 

what they will allow is anyone with a deer rifle allready, to be able to take small deer with say a 223

 

that way you get a new fox rifle now that you could shoot small deer with and they space on your license to get a 308 later for bigger deer

 

both 223 and 308 have very high round capabillity, at worst x3 the life of a 243

[kbfife]

Sorry youve lost me.

 

I live in Scotland and I shoot fox and roe with my .223 at present.

 

I wish to keep my .223 and also to aquire a .243 for the same basic purpose of fox and roe but with a bit more oompphh. the .243 will also give me the posibility to shoot red deer in the future.

 

I would prefer to use a 243 because I could load light 58grain cartridges and have these shooting flat for distant foxes.

 

What is the opinion of the old ruger m77 with the tang safty? are they any good?

the one I put a deposit on must be 25 years old any way but is in good condition. After say the 2000 rounds it the barrel shaged or will the groups just open up a bit? still ok for fox? I dont shoot targets so dont require extreem accuracy.

 

Thanks for the imput thus far guys.

[eldon]

With regard to the scope.

I have the very same model which was on my 308 but is now on my 222.

As fixed scopes go, I am very pleased with it and think it is an excellent product. My only gripe was you can't get target turrets for it if you want to dial it in, hence the swap.

Well made good clear glass, read somewhere that meopta and another firm maybe zeiss use the same lenses with schott glass or something like that.

The turrets track well so zeroing is easy, shoot, measure twiddle dials done.

Talking of twiddling good scope for not fannying about as there isn't anything to play with.

4A ret is good and gives you some options.

Steel tube can tinkle if you tap trees etc as its steel.

[legion]

[As you are keen on .243, i have a ruger m77 mk2 .243 rifle for sale at a fair price.The rifle was inherited but being left handed will not suffice. The rifle has fired less than 100 rounds and i have just zeroed it today getting inch groups with 80 and 55 grain ammo. The rifle has a leupold 6x42 - scope, sling and swivals included. I am at Denny and you are welcome to come and test fire the rifle.

[Redfox]

I dont know of any police force that will give a 308 for foxing and vermin, it is way too big even though we know its a very good calibre all round.

The 243 will do what you want and I would consider two things, first get it in writing from the dealer that if the rifle is shot out he will refund your money ( he cant really argue as it would not be fit for purpose under the sale of goods act) secondly consider Legions offer as it appears to be a known quantity and he has offered to let you try it.

I like my 243 and have just had it rebarreled after 40 yrs shooting and it would still group into 1"- 1 1/4" at 100 yds with factory ammo and less than 1" with its favourite homeloads

Redfox

[huntsman]

Hi 243 sound fine to me . But mk1 V's mk2 etc I would personally buy anything else . I hated my mk2, looked nice, rubbish trigger, couldn't hit a barn door with it.

Will never have another. CZ ,tikka, Sako, howa, remington would all leave it in the shade and there must be loads of 2nd hand one about. Have you checked guntrader?

 

Dave

[kbfife]

ooohh , I just dont know there are many pros and cons to this purchase, I think I will have it field tested and bore scoped, before I have it entered on the ticket.

 

I have the feeling that with an old Ruger that you either get a good one or a duffer.

 

Your thoughts on the m77 mk 1 so far thankfully recieved, keep em comming.

 

cheers all,

 

keith

[Mack]

Hi Keith

 

I've owned two Mk1 Ruger Heavy Barrels in the past, one in .22-250, one in .308. Both were second hand when purchased and both shot extremely well. I was told many years ago that when these rifles were produced, Ruger were sourcing there barrels from different suppliers. There were rumours about the quality and concerns over the quality of the steel used in the barrel manufacture by some of their suppliers. I don't know if there was any truth in these rumours but they certainly seem to have followed the model ever since. I had no quality concerns over the two rifles I owned but maybe I was lucky.

 

Would I buy another now - no, there are better rifles on the market and even with a small budget, you should be able to get something more to your needs.

 

These rifles are no longer popular, Dealers in my area avoid them because they can sit on their racks for months, sometimes years, without any interest. Should you decide in the future you want to sell it, I suspect you will have real trouble doing so.

 

Regards

 

Mack

[Streeker59]

I've had two Ruger 77 mkII's. I have to agree that come sale or trade up they'll be difficult to move.

As for build quality and strength they are second to none. One was a .223 and the other a .260 Rem. Both had tapered barrels and would consistently group within an inch at 100 yds. The .223( 1 in 12") was a cracker with 60 grn flat based pills.

Trigger tuning was inexpensive and as the action is a Mauser it's bomb proof...

If Ruger offered drop mags in the 77 i would def buy again. Soild dependable rifles.

So if they're so good, why did i part with them?

The .260 leapt about like a looney when shot off a bipod as it was so light for a relatively potent cartridge. I wanted a long range varmint rifle and rebarreling to make it heavier and a mac stock was too pricey a way to go.

The .223 was a cracker but i wanted detachable high cap mags as i was getting into practical rifle at the time.

If i was in keiths shoes with a limited budget i would not shy from a Ruger if i wanted a work horse of a rifle. It'll bring the meat home for him..

[David]

There are people in UK who have .308 for vermin Red Fox. Just depends how far you want to take it if you live in an area where the police experts don't want to let you have one.