Long range grouping

[tony]

I have a 22/250 Ack, reloading my own 82gr Bergers, I am getting clover leaf groups at 100yds and 3 inch groups at 400yrds, my question is, would one expect to get smaller groups at 400yrds for target shooting or should I be happy with that. I am fairly happy with this group but would like to hear from some of you sharp shooters if this is the average that one would expect at this range from this calibre/bullet head?

Thanks, Tony.

[gbal]

I have a 22/250 Ack, reloading my own 82gr Bergers, I am getting clover leaf groups at 100yds and 3 inch groups at 400yrds, my question is, would one expect to get smaller groups at 400yrds for target shooting or should I be happy with that. I am fairly happy with this group but would like to hear from some of you sharp shooters if this is the average that one would expect at this range from this calibre/bullet head?

Thanks, Tony.

Hi Tony,

It will be interesting to see what replies you get.Here is the bottom base line:if your bullets are stable at 100 yards,and clover leaf suggests that,then if you measure accurately the group size at 100 yards,(clover leafs can vary!) widest bullet holes centre to centre,or widest edges less calibre size-it's the same,that gives your base line group size..Now,if you could shoot with everything exactly the same in a windless tunnel(and yes,it has been very rarely done) your group at 400 yards cannot be less than 4 times your 100 baseline group. The Laws of physics won't be bypassed.Of course,such conditions will almost never obtain in the real world-winds will fluctuate a bit,even over the 400 yards,as a major factor.But if you shoot .25 at 100 and less than one inch at 400-repeatedly,of course-wind blows some shots in as well as out-then you have a miracle,and be thankful.(and pro rata:one inch at 100,four inches at 400;minute of angle,near enough.)

Offhand,I don't know when your bullets might lose some stability (go subsonic eg ,which is a factor in eg 308 before ir reaches 1000 yards),when they do,then it will not help,but that means you are pushing the chambering/bullet load envelope-I'd be inclined not to be too worried about that yet...

Remember,one group is vanity,five group aggregates are approaching sanity.And not every group is accurately measured,even if honestly 'estimated'.Some genuine groups will be better-rifles vary.Those that might be worse may not tell us!

Anyhow,it will be interesting,and your honesty is commendable.If you can hit tennis balls at 400,in Uk weather,that's ok-you might hear that the world record at 1000 yards is 2 inches,or whatever.Indeed it is.And the good shots/equipment get close regularly).There were 4798(approx-nobody counts them ) other groups shot with top gear that were not world records,and some were not very close.

george

[skany]

Hi tony

 

I'd say it should be a fair bit better then on a still day!

Wht was the wind doing the day you shot the 400 yd group?

 

What's ur mv extreme spread like as that won't tell at 100 but will open up a group at longer ranges!

 

Maybe try working ur loads up at further distances if its not to windy I find 200 yds tells more than 100 yds!

Cheers Andy

[foxyloxy]

I too am very interested to see where this goes as I've sort of got the opposite problem!

I've only recently got my first CF - a bog standard factory CZ527 in 223 & I'm shooting factory ammo also. I have got sub MOA groups at 200 250 300 350 & 400 yards but rarely can get sub 2MOA at 100. Is it the case that the bullet has not stabilized at 100 yards?

 

FL

[onehole]

I have a 22/250 Ack, reloading my own 82gr Bergers, I am getting clover leaf groups at 100yds and 3 inch groups at 400yrds, my question is, would one expect to get smaller groups at 400yrds for target shooting or should I be happy with that. I am fairly happy with this group but would like to hear from some of you sharp shooters if this is the average that one would expect at this range from this calibre/bullet head?

Thanks, Tony.

Tony I think your talking real world grouping here,,,,your probably shooting in typical field conditions,,,hopefully not much wind but given what you may be shooting off ie bipod,some sort of bag etc etc you will definately be moving around just a very small amount as your not on a concrete bench with all the bench rest gear are you? then to hit say a tennis ball at 400yds with regularity I can live with that,,,,,my opinion anyway,,,cheers onehole.

[gun nut]

Hi Tony,

3" at 400yds = dead fox/deer . Got to be pleased with that don't ya?

 

Mike

[tackb]

what you have is a 3/4moa group at 400yds , not to be sniffed at believe me!

 

if i was you i would now start to analyze your grouping , ie is it vertical/horizontal stringing etc and from that attempt to tighten that 400yd grouping with practice and wind reading and maybe a little fine tuning of your load but tbh i think your doing well as you are ?

 

just my tuppence.......

[gbal]

I have a 22/250 Ack, reloading my own 82gr Bergers, I am getting clover leaf groups at 100yds and 3 inch groups at 400yrds, my question is, would one expect to get smaller groups at 400yrds for target shooting or should I be happy with that. I am fairly happy with this group but would like to hear from some of you sharp shooters if this is the average that one would expect at this range from this calibre/bullet head?

Thanks, Tony.

Tony,

Hopefullythe replies ae becoming rather reassuring-I was assuming otherwise identical shooting conditions-if 100 is off concrete bench,and 400 is off grass,then that is a quite a variable-and makes your 400 group all the more pleasing.Wind tends to give horizontal disersion,unless its more or less diectly behind/into (complicated physics) and a spread of muzzle velocities might give vertical if pronounced-only a chrono session could tell.I doubt that terminal velocity is an issue for 22/250AI at 400 yards.Seems like my minute of tennis ball is OK-of course its nice to reduce that variable via load tuning,as it buids in a bit of leeway for the human factor.Assuming too a very fine reticule that does not cover your aim mark-which of course needs to be precise too-a covered up aim point could easily add an inch-you might effectively being aiming half an inch one side,half the other on two shots.Table tennis balls are cheaper,fill with talcum,and really challenging-but golf balls are just spectacular-now you see it,now nobody ever will again.F class would of course expect a bit better than 3/4 moa-but then would have some serious,and heavy(ie stable) gear too-'harris' just won't do!Assume any 'errors' are cumulative too,more likely than self cancelling!So each 1/4 moa contributes.

PS buy golf balls used-you will probably hit quite a few!

george

[tony]

Tony I think your talking real world grouping here,,,,your probably shooting in typical field conditions,,,hopefully not much wind but given what you may be shooting off ie bipod,some sort of bag etc etc you will definately be moving around just a very small amount as your not on a concrete bench with all the bench rest gear are you? then to hit say a tennis ball at 400yds with regularity I can live with that,,,,,my opinion anyway,,,cheers onehole.

 

onehole, I think you are absolutely spot on here mate, I was indeed shooting off a harris bipod from my 4x4 truck bonnet with a rear bag and not too much wind. my rifle is not too heavy and I guess this problebly makes a fair difference too. Many thanks for your input guys, I feel a little more confident now,

 

Thanks, Tony.