Laurie

The original post is a little ambiguous. I read it as Alcesgigas is considering using it on reds as a visitor to the UK. Others have taken it as a resident / potential resident therefore needing an FAC / variation.

If it is for temporary UK use on a visit, the first thing would obviously be to approach shooting estates with a view to shooting availability costs etc, and also whether they are willing and able to countenance this 'cannon' (by UK deerstalking standards). If there is a suitable and happy host, it then becomes an issue presumably of obtaining a visitor's firearms licence and I've no idea at all how anybody gets them in normal circumstances and whether Police Scotland (assuming they issue it) would regard an extreme long-range 338 as OK in the circumstances.

This might be a good question for the Stalking Directory Forum.

Barrel is 0.288 x 0.3075 with nil freebore so testing 155/156 gr projectiles with shorter bearing surfaces.

 

Martin

0.298"? Otherwise, it's well on the way to being a 7mm!

I wouldn't say lighter (155s) are the preferred weight as many successful shooters use heavies all or most of the time. (Steve Donaldson shoots little other than 210s for instance.) It's more an issue of finding what suits you. I do better with 155s, or the 168gn Hybrid. I did very well with the 185gn Berger Juggernaut for a couple of seasons, but even that has a bit more recoil, torque and disturbance on the bi-pod than I like.

A good strategy is to specify an 11 or 10" twist rate and to have the throat cut to suit the 185gn Juggernaut specifically. That is with the bullet seated with the shank to tail section junction level with the bottom of the case-neck when just off the rifling lands. That throat still suits the high-BC 155s very well and the 168gn Hybrid. It'll handle the 185 Hybrid and 210gn LR BT too at the cost of slightly deep seating. Although theoretically an over-fast twist, I find 1 in 10" works really well with all of these bullets including the 155.5gn Berger BT Fullbore, a bullet that I consider as a once in a generation outstanding design in the way that the original 155gn Sierra Palma was 25 or 30 years ago. 11-inch would be fine, that's what Berger recommends for the non-Hybrid 210gn class designs. (The 185gn Juggernaut works well in 12" and is even stabilised OK in 13 in anything but ballistically disadvantageous conditions.) Many of the top FTR national guys use 1 in 10s and shoot either the 155.5 or the 210gn LRBT as conditions demand. Note - no mention of the 210gn or other VLDs. Very few people are happy with this design. I'm very fond of the 168gn Hybrid. It can be got up to 2,950 fps plus and has an excellent BC. It'll hold elevations as well as the 155s. (The main problem with 210s apart from rifle disturbance is increased elevations making it a trade-off between reduced windage and the odd shot leaking out high or low.)

LAURIE- i have some kvb 223 from mr Fox if you want to try them i can bring some to diggle .

Gary, thanks for that offer, but I'm pretty sure the ones that Brian had in stock were the standard SR version. You can tell at a glance as they're a very deep copper colour. The SRMs are nickel plated. The standard version is an excellent little primer but its cup is very thin / soft and my 223 with 90s runs pretty warm in a Savage action that pierces primers a bit too easily, so it has to be a magnum type with its thicker cup.

Thanks for that Dave (the other one - a surfeit of Dave's here!) I hadn't realised there were two lots either. York Guns used to import the PMC branded variety from Europe years ago, but nobody here rated them at that time. I've yet to find a small magnum primer that's as good as the Murom / PMC model in .223 with 90s and a case-load of Varget or Re15. Des Parr was also looking for the LR variety a while back - I presume he uses them in 284 / 7mm short magnums, so he'll likely see the reference here soon.

I think HPS have Murom Laurie.

Thanks Dave - I'll follow up on that as they do seem to suit some cartridges and loads really well.

I bought 50 or 100, I can't remember which now, from Henry Krank in Pudsey some years back. The company occasionally got them, but whether that still applies I wouldn't know. They worked fine. I always thought it would have been interesting to shoot them in some open space somewhere at a steepish muzzle elevation to see the little cartridge's longer range trajectory - but never did.

N165 is deifinitely just a tad slow burning for the cartridge - I use a Forster long drop-tube funnel for everything though as it seems everything I load these days has the case completely full, even F/TR .308 and .223 loads!

I'd intended to use H4831 too, but with the Hodgdon powder situation, there's no guarantee of getting a season's supply, even when it reappears. (When Edgar Brothers receives its main annual shipment from the USA and word gets out that retailers have IMR / Hodgdon powders again, it'll spread like wildfire via all these electronic gizzmos I don't understand and it really will be a case of 'The Devil takes the hindmost!', at least for Varget, H4895, H4350 and probably H4831 too.) Apart from H4831, Re17 / Elcho 17 is the other obvious alternative for this cartridge, alongside Viht N560. Despite David (6mmBR)'s views on high-energy powders being fine barrel life wise, I'd rather stick with a good old single-base job having seen what N540 and N550 can do to .308 Win F/TR rifle barrels - providing the cartridge performs well enough of course. I will try Ramshot Hunter (double-base ball type) in it under 180s at some point purely to evaluate the powder.

Primers? I'll wait to hear with others with experience of the cartridge say. I'm using Russian (Murom) PMC branded primers which have a reputation like the CCI-BR2 model for being mild, but you can't get them in this country anymore.

Robert. I should have said I used a Forster 5.5-inch narrow diameter drop-tube funnel and swirl pour to get 57gn into the case. (Swirl pour is tilt the case + funnel slightly and pour the charge slowly from the scalepan onto the funnel wall in such a way that it runs partly around the funnel before dropping into the droptube. This lets you get 2-3gn more into the case compared to a straight downwards pour into a short-tube funnel.)

Robert, you don't say what bullet weight you're using, or what length throating / COALs you're running at. I'm assuming it'll be 180s and the barrel throated suitably?

In my straight 284 throated by Mik Mak for the Berger 180gn VLD, I can run with a compressed case-load of N165 under the 180gn Sierra MK, a VLD form bullet and seated ~0.015" into the lands. MV is 2,820 fps with 57.0gn with reasonable MV spreads from a 30-inch gain twist (1-8.5 to 1-8 inch) Bartlein. I have been up to 57.5gn which will be somewhere around 2,850 fps still with no pressure problems but the load didn't group well. Above that weight, the charge will be very heavily compressed and I don't believe it'd be wise or practical.

That's in expanded Lapua 6.5-284 brass, but Hannams now have Winchester 284 originals in stock which will likely have more capacity than Lapua, but will also equally likely not be as consistent (not measured or weighed any cases yet),

If you do try N165, start around 54gn and go up in half-grain steps to 56.5gn and then in smaller steps above that.

I've also tried N165 with the older 175gn SMK with reasonable results but it's a little short on velocity. I'd say it's a too slow burner for anything lighter than 175 if you want full .284 MVs.

See you at Diggle?

You need to speak to Laurie really, it's his content, But from a point of view from the UKV forums there wouldn't be a problem.

Fine by me Neil.