Time of year

[Guest sean1967]

Sorry ,but if you shoot fox for sport then you are priviliged, where I shoot, sporting estate and sheep farms, fox are vermin and are to be shot on sight.

Do you fret if you shoot pregnant rabbits , crows with young in their nests, rats with young, don't ever lose sight of the reason we have permission to shoot fox and other vermin .

You can have respect for your chosen quarry but if you start thinking this way it's time to take up paper punching and leave vermin control to those who will carry on getting the job done regardless of the time of year. As I've had to pick up 267 poults in a release pen where a fox has broken in I will never miss a chance when offered. Cubs perish from cold and dehydration in a very short time span . Fox have been persecuted for hundreds of years and still surprise us with the sheer numbers that reappear each year despite the fact that there are more people shooting them with better equipment than could ever have imagined possible 30 yrs ago.

If you want seasons placed on vermin ,this is the kind of thinking that will bring more silly restrictions to the already end less hoops we have to jump through to go shooting with C/F's. Don't take this personally but just step back and think about what you are saying before making posts such as this.

Pete.

 

My sentiments entirely.

 

IMO Pete's views have been spot on all the way through this thread.

 

Redfox

 

Anyone who claims never to have lost a poult to a fox since the availability of cheap electric fencing, is just fooling themselves mate. Once those poults are over the wire its open season as far as the foxes are concerned. If you've not wing cliped them, a dubious management practice IMO, some of them will definitely be outside by day 2. Thats why we have popholes.

[JohnGalway]

All sorts of issues crop up in a thread like this. One mans sport is another mans control, and vice versa. Grain farmer is probably quite happy to see foxes around, I can understand that since they'd eat a heap of rodents, cattle farmer probably a bit less happy in some cases (have heard with dairy farmers some cows having udderrs bitten, no experience of it where I live) and all out war when it comes to sheep farmers. Then you get climate and quality of land, which both have important bearings on fox breeding and lambs appearing. Harsher climates, like up north in the UK will probably see foxy breeding a little later than down south. Bad land like where I live (Tulky will know) will see sheep farmers lambing mostly out in April, some as late as the middle of that month. Yet in good quality land I've seen lambs around Christmas time and before it!

 

Add in all members here who shoot in different locations and there'll never ever be a right or wrong way of going about the job as it can be quite different for each shooter.

 

My plan for this year, unless I have problems, is to stop foxing likely at the end of May. Then pick it up again in the Autumn. For me and my local area (hill sheep country), the real control work should have pretty much been completed before any lambs appear. In my opinion, I'm doing a good job when I'm not being called out about lambs being taken. That usually means having gone hard on them late Autumn, early Winter and taking account of lampshy foxes and newcomers after the territory scents wear off after that.

 

Again it differs for all of us, I'm not saying my way is right for you just as your way may not suit me.

[Redfox]

You only clip the flight feathers, which have grown perfectly by the time they are ready for release and they can easily fly up to roost. So it isnt a questionable practice at all and ensures the birds are safe until mature enough to look after themselves.

I used to have release pens on an estate where fox shooting was absolutely forbidden ( for hunting) and still had no mass slaughters. If the pens are made properly and protected by 3 strands of wire there isnt a fox alive that can get in, you do of course have to check them and change batteries before they go flat etc etc. Pop holes are needed as well, we dont live in a perfect world and odd ones get out or are not properly clipped, but we are talking an odd one not hundreds.

I would not accept those sort of excuses from a keeper unless he had had no money for decent wire or fencers and so on.

Depends where you learned keepering and pen building and so on, I was taught by a guy who was keepering when he had to encourage wild nests ( and protect them ) and used broody hens for hatching/ rearing as there were no incubators then to speak of.

The bottom line is we live in a world where we are outnumbered by more than 40 to 1 in the population, who do not agree with the kill em all sentiments and would have it stopped in a heartbeat, so we have to be seen to be managing predators not exterminating the lot, commonsense is useful here or within a few years there willl be no shooting as we know it, vermin or game.

The RSPB and the various animal groups can draw on millions not just a few quid and are buying up land all over and stopping shooting, may not entirely stop the super rich but you and me will be history fo sure.

Anyway we have nicely highjacked this thread, into keepering now.

Redfox

[Elwood]

I used to have release pens on an estate where fox shooting was absolutely forbidden ( for hunting) and still had no mass slaughters. If the pens are made properly and protected by 3 strands of wire there isnt a fox alive that can get in, you do of course have to check them and change batteries before they go flat etc etc.

 

I thought that in my first ten years as a Keeper without any mishaps in release pens, twelve years on I wish I could say the same.

 

There's not one Keeper worth his salt that would say he has a 100% fox proof pen, some are more fox proof than others, but none are 100%.

 

Touch wood I haven't had any problems inside my release pens for a few years now, but as soon as those poults fly down from roost in the mornings and get on the wrong side of the wire then it's open season.

On two occasions I have picked up over one hundred poults outside the pen.

Now as much as I don't like to think of any animal starving to death I have to shoot foxes all year round, because for me ( actually my employer ) I can't afford not

 

Ian

[Guest sean1967]

I thought that in my first ten years as a Keeper without any mishaps in release pens, twelve years on I wish I could say the same.

 

There's not one Keeper worth his salt that would say he has a 100% fox proof pen, some are more fox proof than others, but none are 100%.

 

Touch wood I haven't had any problems inside my release pens for a few years now, but as soon as those poults fly down from roost in the mornings and get on the wrong side of the wire then it's open season.

On two occasions I have picked up over one hundred poults outside the pen.

Now as much as I don't like to think of any animal starving to death I have to shoot foxes all year round, because for me ( actually my employer ) I can't afford not

 

Ian

 

Ian

 

Right with you on those points.

 

Red

 

if thye can get up to roost, they can get over the top and out. Once they are out and having been wing clipped its breakfast, lunch and dinner, on a plate for Mr Foxy. I too sat at the feet of one of the old school life long keepers. 3 strand electric fences!!!!!! blimey mate what have you got some kind of Terminator macho foxes down your way?

[Redfox]

No Sean but they are certianly persistant b$%%rs!!, Once out of the pen they are indeed more vulnerable as elwood and you say, I should say that in the winter / spring before putting poults in I have a real blitz on charlie and the other vermin so I usually get until August or Sept without too many problems, then get to it again through winter spring. So its fair to say on my patch and the neigbouring ones there arent many vixens lying up any way and on the lambs, if they show up they get shot, so we are not far apart on this. I just like to see good control going on before hand not after if you know what I mean.

Redfox

[Guest sean1967]

No Sean but they are certianly persistant b$%%rs!!, Once out of the pen they are indeed more vulnerable as elwood and you say, I should say that in the winter / spring before putting poults in I have a real blitz on charlie and the other vermin so I usually get until August or Sept without too many problems, then get to it again through winter spring. So its fair to say on my patch and the neigbouring ones there arent many vixens lying up any way and on the lambs, if they show up they get shot, so we are not far apart on this. I just like to see good control going on before hand not after if you know what I mean.

Redfox

 

I know precisely what you mean Red.

 

Personally if they show they go, whether its about the lambs or not. I cant see what the difference is really. If its OK in one set of circumstances its ok in them all. IMO

 

One trick I use with elecy fences is to run them out to a post set about 1.5 meters from your corner posts insulators like a bit of a wing off each corner. Charlie wanders down your fence line clocking his next meal inside the wire and walk bang straight into your powered wing. It really does work I've sat and watch it happen. Unfortunately I laughed so much I couldn't get a bead on the bugger.

 

Cheers

 

Sean

[Redfox]

Yes you can funnel them into a snare the same way, only not with it live or full bat. Ive seen them do a back somersault about 3 feet in the air when their snout touches the wire

.redfox

[kip270]

As other's have said it all depends on who wants what, too many Foxes seen and the Farmer/Landowner won't be a happy chappy, you have to have a balance, but no matter how much you try you will never shoot them all (not that's what we are trying to do anyhow).

 

My foxing is pure control, because of the Pheasants and when the Cow's begin to calf, the damage they do to the calf's and udders on the cow's is not nice.

Yes i enjoy getting out there and doing it, and to outwit another Predator is something that is amazing. The ground i shoot on has a vey large army base close by, and the amount of foxes and rabbits that come onto my ground is mind boggling.

 

Everyone has different agenda's and we shouldn't knock either one for it, i will take a back seat on the fox control come the end of the month unless the farmer has problems

[menial 1]

You only clip the flight feathers, which have grown perfectly by the time they are ready for release and they can easily fly up to roost. So it isnt a questionable practice at all and ensures the birds are safe until mature enough to look after themselves.

I used to have release pens on an estate where fox shooting was absolutely forbidden ( for hunting) and still had no mass slaughters. If the pens are made properly and protected by 3 strands of wire there isnt a fox alive that can get in, you do of course have to check them and change batteries before they go flat etc etc. Pop holes are needed as well, we dont live in a perfect world and odd ones get out or are not properly clipped, but we are talking an odd one not hundreds.

I would not accept those sort of excuses from a keeper unless he had had no money for decent wire or fencers and so on.

Depends where you learned keepering and pen building and so on, I was taught by a guy who was keepering when he had to encourage wild nests ( and protect them ) and used broody hens for hatching/ rearing as there were no incubators then to speak of.

The bottom line is we live in a world where we are outnumbered by more than 40 to 1 in the population, who do not agree with the kill em all sentiments and would have it stopped in a heartbeat, so we have to be seen to be managing predators not exterminating the lot, commonsense is useful here or within a few years there willl be no shooting as we know it, vermin or game.

The RSPB and the various animal groups can draw on millions not just a few quid and are buying up land all over and stopping shooting, may not entirely stop the super rich but you and me will be history fo sure.

Anyway we have nicely highjacked this thread, into keepering now.

Redfox

Red, you are spot on about the lack of money for the fencing. We are constantly invaded from neighbouring ground and the campaign has to continue because of this. It's a change to be able too have two sides of the story discussed in an adult fashion, but as some have said for a lot of us there is no close season , which is why I've just bolted my dinner as I'm about 10mins late for another freezing 4-5 hours on the back of the truck.

All the best to you all on this board , you seem a pretty level headed bunch.

Pete.

[tikka 223]

Well done to all that responded, 2 pages and a good debate with no arguments

 

Enjoyed the reading

[Redfox]

Yes good discussion and we all have to do whats needed on our ground.

Redfox.

[Guest varmartin]

I have just read about two pages full of reasons and different idea`s and thoughts on this topic . So would like to say thanks to all as it has made for a very interesting read.

 

I for one am glad to see it has not turned into a pissing match on `Ethics`..keep it up lads ..as I am learning from you guys from this.

[craigyboy]

yep, very good grown up discussion. The way it should be.

[tulkyuk]

And very good points put forward by all - i still say shoot the little buggers though

[shrek]

Your all doing a very good job of stopping me writing my dissertation and i thank all for it because this is a far more intersting read! i Agree and with both side of the argument, i myself do not shoot foxes for sport, but because im asked to by other farmers and on my own ground which i farm however much enjoyment is had doing so, i must admit that i dont let many pass me by but there is some points that we have to draw a line on what we're doing, out aim is not to eradicate the species and i think we must all repect that. At this time of year all i really shoot due to time constraints and other commitments is foxes and crows, the crows i will watch and wait for the nest to be built, stalk her in the late evening and push a goose magnum through the bottom of the nest killing her an destroying the chicks/eggs. Foxes i will only shoot if the ground is having problems with them or im asked to take them out specifically. We all have our own judgement on our own actions, a couple of foxes on a patch of ground is never going to be a huge finacial loss to most landowners, apart from keepers with poults in pens. Some reading this my not agree with my views on the matter, but this is the way i will do things until i feel that the cubs are old enough to fend for themselves and they will be delt with accordingly