sitting position

[ds1]

Some of the European comps involve a fair amount of shots sitting. No bipods are allowed for support, though can still be attached to the rifle.

 

Typical distance is around 200m for 5 shots in 3 minutes - you need to be able to put the shots within 2 moa and 1moa being good.

 

Whats allowed - a sling (body sling), you can use your rear bag and carry-mat for support.

 

Now if you have talent and alot of skill and practice you can do it this way, standard cross legged position

 

but I don't have that skill. A popular technique is to use a sling around ones back and leg, this gives a fair amount of stability

 

 

you can just make out the black strap around the back and one knee. This position could be aided by placing the rear bag under your arse - it does make a difference in stability and also using a soft knee pad to rest the forearm of the rifle on. The idea of moving the rifle back over the shoulder is also a good idea, a better idea could be a bull-pup.

 

The idea is developed in the next photo with the middle shooter, the sling goes around both knees and back, he also uses a soft bag to rest the forearm of the rifle on

 

 

The nearest thing I guess on the uk scene would be Field Target air rifle, the bean bags they sit on give a lot of support - much more so than the small rear bag, one US company makes a dedicated sitting sling - sort of chest harness and two knee loops but functions the same as in the third picture.

 

These are a range of basic sitting position options, given the equipment restrictions, they can all work - you need to find out what suits you. Key is to find a good support for both front and rear of the rifle.

 

So has anyone got a different position? Lets see if we can come up with something more stable - a position without fatigue and tension.

 

David.

[Barrelsniffer]

I tend to use the cross legs and resting rifle into crossed arms as shown in your pics also another one taught is if you have a rucksak/bergan to rest your back on or lean on tree anything for a bit of support on your back..

 

 

Hard to explain with out pics....so lie sideways right side towards the ground..both legs bent at the knee resting on top of each other , the rifle resting on left leg which is resting on top of right leg...if right handed....and the butt fully supported in the shoulder as the chest area is slightly raised from the ground resting on bergan...does work..we used it when i did my course back in the day.

 

From the cross legged pos just simply lean back and to the right if right handed....easy

Also sling can be looped around the left knee area for better stability.

 

If i can get any pics ..will post..but its so easy and a good position.

 

Mick

[MarinePMI]

No offense, but those are the most ugly sitting positions I have ever seen.

 

For one, they leave you sitting up high (small base, tall form=unstable).

 

Second, they leave no easy way (that I can see) to shift your entire body to gain "natural point of aim". Geez, it looks like somebody got into a fight with tie down strap...and lost.

 

I have always found a cross legged (left over right, for a right handed person) position with loop sling to be the most stable. Quite honestly, it's almost as stable as prone (enough to put 10rds in two inches at 200yds with iron sights in 60 secs).

 

The whole "open leg"/"high cross ankled" sitting position has been proven time and again to be the least stable of the sitting positions.

 

LOL! Those shooters look like thay have a bondage fetish or something...ugh.

[Barrelsniffer]

No offense, but those are the most ugly sitting positions I have ever seen.

 

For one, they leave you sitting up high (small base, tall form=unstable).

 

Second, they leave no easy way (that I can see) to shift your entire body to gain "natural point of aim". Geez, it looks like somebody got into a fight with tie down strap...and lost.

 

I have always found a cross legged (left over right, for a right handed person) position with loop sling to be the most stable. Quite honestly, it's almost as stable as prone (enough to put 10rds in two inches at 200yds with iron sights in 60 secs).

 

The whole "open leg"/"high cross ankled" sitting position has been proven time and again to be the least stable of the sitting positions.

 

LOL! Those shooters look like thay have a bondage fetish or something...ugh.

 

 

Position i tried explain is very stable..and also distributes the weight of the rifle evenly across body.and you can lie there for hrs..also using the loop sling around top of left knee.

ref crossed legs..they dont seem to be very comfy in the pics also looks like the straps/slings are pulling there bodies in ?....and if your in that pos for any amount of time..not good..but we use to well had to shoot 600/1000 from crossed plus other positions..im a short ass so can get low..and comfy..fail one part of the course u fail the whole course.

 

Back in the days...

 

Mick

[MarinePMI]

LOL! I'm a tall gangly person, so getting into the positions was always easier for me (my problem was getting too low, as I'm pretty flexible so locking out joints always necessitated bone support versus allowing ligaments and joints to take up the weight). My other big problem was my long gangly neck. In the sitting and prone positions I always ran into the problem of my face being shoved up too close to the sights/scope. Just had to add LOP to the stock and account for change in POI due to a different stock weld and differing recoil characteristics...I was always at least one or two clicks in elev (at short range) difference form kneeling or standing and sitting and prone...

[Cornishman]

LOL! I'm a tall gangly person, so getting into the positions was always easier for me (my problem was getting too low, as I'm pretty flexible so locking out joints always necessitated bone support versus allowing ligaments and joints to take up the weight). My other big problem was my long gangly neck. In the sitting and prone positions I always ran into the problem of my face being shoved up too close to the sights/scope. Just had to add LOP to the stock and account for change in POI due to a different stock weld and differing recoil characteristics...I was always at least one or two clicks in elev (at short range) difference form kneeling or standing and sitting and prone...

 

I'm tall and gangly too but my most stable position is like DS1's photo2 which is inelegant but the best my poor body can do. If you are flexible and can lean forward over crossed legs (as described by David Tubb, my hero) that's the best in my view. I actually went to yoga classes to try to improve my flexibility so I could get into that position. I never got close.

 

What surprises me is (as in photo 1) you see guys who are professionals who are adopting sub-optimal sitting positions. The only thing I can think of is that the crossed-leg/David Tubb position may be relatively immobile and therefore not suitable for someone shooting operationally (?).

 

Having slagged off the guy in photo 2 I have to say I'm sure he was one of three Russians shooting in a row next to me who each, from sitting, centred a very small target at 175m. I missed.

[brown dog]

Second, they leave no easy way (that I can see) to shift your entire body to gain "natural point of aim". Geez, it looks like somebody got into a fight with tie down strap...and lost.

 

Those shooters look like thay have a bondage fetish or something...

 

umm... same detail:

 

 

 

If I'm honest, I'm never really clear what a sitting unsupported position is practising.

 

If it really is: walking along and need to take a 'right now' shot over a standing crop or a window sill from back in the room, then the only fellow doing that is the fellow in the very first picture.

 

....No straps, no faffing, minimal exposure above rifle height; just sit and shoot.

 

Tubb's position elevates the firer sufficiently to fire over daisies (short daisies! ) -whilst exposing much of his upper body above the rifle.

 

Of course, if there's more time, you'll use everything available to make yourself as stable as possible -much as Mick said, forget slings and straps, I want to lean on packs and sticks or solid support:

 

.

[Streeker59]

I'm surprised the guy in pic 2 with the TRG doesn't get scope bite considering the butt of the rifle isn't in his shoulder. Or does the weight of the rifle plus muzzle brake eliminate recoil ?

[Barrelsniffer]

I'm surprised the guy in pic 2 with the TRG doesn't get scope bite considering the butt of the rifle isn't in his shoulder. Or does the weight of the rifle plus muzzle brake eliminate recoil ?

 

 

Im sure there would still be a kick..the position i mentioned..if he leaned back with a back support..and rested rifle across left leg...job done..that does not look good..

[ds1]

The slings and positions used are a result of the competion rules, no packs, tripods or long bipods allowed.

 

I have seen and used packs, trees and even a garden fork as a back rest, all work great but not allowed under Czech and Hungarian comp rules. The idea of the sling in fact has the same idea as using any of the above methods - to give a fixed back position. Little tweaks to the position can show improvement or not. Also in pic 2 scope - eye was never a problem when I used that technique.

 

The alternative seems to be a high-power David Tubb type technique. Interesting in one of his books he had a sling point on the back of his shooting jacket.

 

David.

[foxshot]

Has any one used these techniques in the field (on fox's e.t.c ) if so where they effective,due to the nature of the ground this would have been a handy position when shooting last week with weejohn

[ds1]

With a knee sling you can fairly easily go bunny bashing at 150 yards, 200 yards is doable but more shake. However much better to use a sitting bipod and \ or rucksack. Once higher than sitting its a question is it worth dragging aroung some form of cross sticks or carbon tripod.

[baldie]

I had a session of coaching at the last PR comp from an older guy who shoots service rifle [irons] all the time. He watched me shoot like the shooter in the first pic, then stepped in. After much contorting , wheezing and farting, i mastered the position Tubb is in. It is by far the most stable sitting position when done correctly. All the limbs form a series of triangles which is the most stable shape. My scoring improved instantly, and dramatically, and proved the method is the best, especially in strong wind [or any wind forthat matter] to me.

You need to practise it regularly, or at least be reasonably supple. I ached like buggery the next day.

[AHPP]

I had a session of coaching at the last PR comp from an older guy who shoots service rifle [irons] all the time. He watched me shoot like the shooter in the first pic, then stepped in. After much contorting , wheezing and farting, i mastered the position Tubb is in. It is by far the most stable sitting position when done correctly. All the limbs form a series of triangles which is the most stable shape. My scoring improved instantly, and dramatically, and proved the method is the best, especially in strong wind [or any wind forthat matter] to me.

You need to practise it regularly, or at least be reasonably supple. I ached like buggery the next day.

 

Not a thin bloke called Bob was it?

[baldie]

Ahh you know Bob then ?

He,s one of the good guys, and always willing to share his experience.

He,s also bloody hilarious.

[AHPP]

Ahh you know Bob then ?

He,s one of the good guys, and always willing to share his experience.

He,s also bloody hilarious.

 

Only met him the once (I think) but full of info. Good guy.

[lancslad]

was gettin all excited there lads.............

 

With talks of straps and tucking it in etc.......there aint even no way that I could get into half of them positions with my belly going on.....

 

And if I did...........I would want to be having some size 8 blonde sitting somewhere else.........

[Scotch_egg]

what slings are used for these sitting positions? My standards sling wont reach round my back like those pictured. Will the bi-athalon sling from sporting services do the job? I am considering one due to the weight of my .20Tac!

[Patriot741]

I'm not sure if there's a commercially made strap that will work for this. What I have brought is a length of 2" wide webbing strap and a pair of side release buckles and made my own. Got both from E-Bay for less than £10 ! That way you can adjust it to suit your own style and position and if you just don't get on with it, you're only £10 out of pocket !

[lancslad]

not too sure but you may want to try the sa80 sling........theres plenty of room in that.......

[MarinePMI]

was gettin all excited there lads.............

 

With talks of straps and tucking it in etc.......there aint even no way that I could get into half of them positions with my belly going on.....

 

And if I did...........I would want to be having some size 8 blonde sitting somewhere else.........

 

That's specifically why the Tubb's sitting position is used...for those with...ahem...protruding mid sections. Same goes for the cocked leg, prone position; gotta get the belly off the ground/out of the way to prevent heartbeat transfer. Nothing quite like see the sights jump in time with the heart rate...