Naked to moly

[Elwood]

I have some 90 grain scenars that I might swap for some 105 silver scenars. So far the rifle has only shot naked bullets, is there anything I should know before committing myself to the moly bullets? Common sense says give the barrel a damned good clean before using moly, but is there anything else I should be aware of.

[baldie]

I run the 90 grain silver scenar in my 6mmbr , Ian.

I ran the barrel in however with naked bullets....because i had some. Give it a right good clean, then shoot the silver scenars. You will find pressure signs in the first couple of shots....thats usual with moly for some reason, then they will settle down. Or you could treat the bore with moly, prior to shooting the silvers.

The silver scenars are nowhere near as dirty as other brands of moly bullets, and dont give the same fouling. You can also stoke them well up. My 90 grainers are doing 3150 fps.

They also look pretty.

[Elwood]

Cheers Dave, we like pretty

[Vermincinerator]

Check out THIS artical Ian, very interesting mate

[baldie]

Its a good article that, Ian.

I,d like to try those 130 grain diamond lines myself...they sound to have a very similar "clean " coating, like the silver scenar.

A friend has tried them in a .260 ackley, but cant get them to shoot unfortunatly.

How did your experiments with Boron go ?

[Elwood]

I have a bottle of boron sitting on my reloading bench. When my next 7WSM barrel is chambered I'm going to give boron a try with 180 grain Bergers.

 

Very interesting article Ian, many thanks.

[Vermincinerator]

How did your experiments with Boron go ?

 

Dave,

I coat all my bullets now, they are really slick but i notice a 50-80fps avarage velocity loss which from what i have read supposedly relates to a pressure drop.

Not bothered about the velocity loss cos clean up is really quick and even though there is no reason why long range accuracy seems to have improved.

 

Ian,

I am intrigued that you say you have a "bottle" of Boron Nitride, mine looks like a bag of dodgy white powder

 

Ian.

[Elwood]

Ian,

I am intrigued that you say you have a "bottle" of Boron Nitride, mine looks like a bag of dodgy white powder

 

Ian.

 

A small bottle of as you say dodgy looking white powder. A friend of mine had heaps of it, boran that is. I have no idea how he managed to source such an amount, I dare say when I use it I will probably find out it's a mixture of Ajax and crushed aspirin

[Christian]

Hi. I'm new to the forum. I'd like to follow up on this old post/string if you don't mind.

 

I've just taken delivery of a new stalking rifle and have been considering using boron nitrate from day one. Primarily to ease cleaning, not so much for barrel wear, although that seems to be a key benefit presented in the posted article. Are you guys still using boron? What is your main reason for using it or for stopping? And, do you think it would make sense / be practical using it in a deer rifle (e.g. would it rub off easily when cartridges are carried in a pouch)?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Christian

[baldie]

Welcome to the forum Christian.

 

I,m just about to embark on boron myself.

 

The first thing to make absolutely sure of, is that you have the correct stuff. Its Hexagonal Boron Nitride.

 

I,m very fortunate in that i have a friend who has used it for a long time, and has a source for the stuff. He sent me enough [about half a powder tub ] to last me the rest of my shooting days.

 

Shoot the gun in first with normal bullets, them completely strip the bore of copper. You then shove a mop coated with hbn down the bore to treat it.

 

You need a new tumbler bowl and around 10,000 stainless steel ball bearings , which are £50 off fleabay.The size you want are 3mm diameter.

Put half a teaspoon in with the bb,s and tumble all day.

Degrease your bullets, and tumble with a 1/8 of a teaspoon of hbn for 6 hours. Stick the coated bullets in a sock, and wipe, and they are ready to use apparently.

 

Benefits.

Throat life is greatly extended.

The barrel stops fouling to any degree, my friend is cleaning around every 400-500 rounds, and accuracy is still perfect.

Its not dirty like moly.

Its not hydroscopic like moly.

It doesnt form rings in the bore like moly.

 

Drawbacks.

 

none apparently.

 

I,m going to start my programme today. My friend is very knowledgeable on the subject, and i trust his word, and his experiences.

[John MH]

Welcome to the forum Christian.

 

I,m just about to embark on boron myself.

 

The first thing to make absolutely sure of, is that you have the correct stuff. Its Hexagonal Boron Nitride.

 

I,m very fortunate in that i have a friend who has used it for a long time, and has a source for the stuff. He sent me enough [about half a powder tub ] to last me the rest of my shooting days.

 

Shoot the gun in first with normal bullets, them completely strip the bore of copper. You then shove a mop coated with hbn down the bore to treat it.

 

You need a new tumbler bowl and around 10,000 stainless steel ball bearings , which are £50 off fleabay.The size you want are 3mm diameter.

Put half a teaspoon in with the bb,s and tumble all day.

Degrease your bullets, and tumble with a 1/8 of a teaspoon of hbn for 6 hours. Stick the coated bullets in a sock, and wipe, and they are ready to use apparently.

 

Benefits.

Throat life is greatly extended.

The barrel stops fouling to any degree, my friend is cleaning around every 400-500 rounds, and accuracy is still perfect.

Its not dirty like moly.

Its not hydroscopic like moly.

It doesnt form rings in the bore like moly.

 

Drawbacks.

 

none apparently.

 

I,m going to start my programme today. My friend is very knowledgeable on the subject, and i trust his word, and his experiences.

 

What are you going to degrease with and what tumbler are you going to use?

[Davy]

We Moly coat for a couple of rifles at home and it is messy stuff, I have often considered trying HBN but never found a suitable UK source. Baldie's excellent write up has re-kindled my interest again so can anyone point me in the direction of a UK stockist at a sensible price?

[Gunsgobang88]

What are you going to degrease with and what tumbler are you going to use?

 

Interesting conversation about HBN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride), please find below a copy of the instructions I supply with HBN for bullet coating and bore treatment.

 

The advantages of Hexagonal Boron Nitride (HBN) over Molybdenum Disulphide (Moly/MoS2) and Tungsten Disulphide (Danzac/WS2)

 

HBN when compared to other bullet and bore treatments is usually:-

 

More stable at higher temperatures

Able to withstand higher pressures before degrading

A better thermal conductor

 

HBN is totally inert, has extremely high lubricity and better bullet adhesion than moly

 

Both Moly and Danzac are sulphur bearing compounds. Both have lower temperature limits than HBN, when they break down reactive sulphur compounds can be left behind. These are what react with moisure in the air, most are corrosive to common barrel steels.

 

HBN is widely used in the cosmetic and food processing industries and has fewer health warnings than Moly or Danzac.

 

HBN is non wetting so it will not combine with moisture to create corrosive residue.

 

The first shot out of a HBN treated barrel and/or when using HBN coated bullets is usually nearer the true mean point of impact than with an untreated barrel or uncoated bullets.

 

Bullets can usually be coated in less time than necessary with Moly.

 

HBN does not leave a dirty mess on your hands, loading bench or equipment. For most people this is the biggest advantage over other forms of bullet coating and bore treatments.

___________________________________

 

Coating of Bullets with Hexagonal Boron Nitride (HBN)

 

We recommend and use the Lyman Super Moly Tumble Coat Bullet Finishing Kit (Part No. 7631351) or the Super Moly Bullet Finishing Kit (Part No. 7631384) but without the Moly! Please follow the instructions supplied by Lyman, all components in these kits are available separately. Coating times are typically half to two thirds that of Moly, it is also unnecessary to tumble the bullets in corn cob media to remove excess HBN, it does not 'bulk up' like Moly.

 

The use of HBN reduces friction between bullets and barrel, this reduces fouling and can lengthen shot strings before cleaning is required. In theory, barrel life is extended by the reduction in friction and frequency in cleaning. However, the use of HBN is no substitute for careful barrel 'break-in' when new and careful cleaning procedures.

 

When coated, bullets have a slightly white, almost pearlescent sheen to them. Handle with care as they are extremely slippery and easy to drop!

 

Coating bullets with HBN reduces friction in the bore and can result in the lowering of internal barrel pressures. This in turn means that coated bullets may show slightly lower velocities than uncoated bullets. The temptation is to slightly increase your load to compensate - you need to be cautious!

 

From a totally clean bore, shoot at least 30 rounds using your normal load data as used with uncoated bullets before increasing your load. Better still, start low! Do not increase your charge weights until you have clear evidence of lower pressure and reduced velocity.

 

Bore coating with HBN

 

Very simple! Always shake before use, our HBN bore coating is applied to the bore using a patch or clean bore mop and allowed to dry. We strongly recommend the use of a tight fitting bore guide to prevent the HBN leaking into the chamber. The presence of HBN or any other lubricant (dry or wet) in the chamber area could cause pressure problems. Our HBN bore coating should be applied after cleaning and before shooting.

 

Please do not be tempted to use our HBN products for bullet coating and barrels interchangeably, they are of a different formulation and manufactured for specific purposes.

_______________________________________

 

I hope the above is of interest to anyone considering HBN

 

Alan

www.alanwey.co.uk

[Christian]

Thanks Baldie :-)

 

And thanks a lot for your detailed response. A mate of mine is actually doing the work, he's got the skill and equipment and have recently switched from moly to boron. His approach sounds similar to what you specify.

 

It was valuable to have pros/cons clarified and it has helped me make up my mind.

 

Thanks a lot for your help, very much appreciated!

 

Cheers,

 

Christian

[baldie]

John,

I,m going to degrease with panelwipe. This is a product used by vehicle refinishers to wipe doem paintwork after its been wet flatted, and prior to paint. Its a very powerful degreasant, that leaves absolutely no trace of oil whatsoever. I buy it by the 5 litres from the local auto respray suppliers, and use a lot of it in a pump sprayer for everyday degreasing in the workshop.

 

Just put a new tumbler bowl on the tumbler, and it merrily rattling 10,000 bb,s and some Boron around now.

 

If you fancy some John, i can find you a bit.

 

I,m not posting it though.....i dont like the latex glove treatment.....

[John MH]

Hi Dave

 

I already have some, got it from Canada about 3 years ago (enough to last at least 2 lifetimes) and also have the bbs and a small Lyman tumber dish, from the Lyman Moly Coating kit. Will look at getting some of the degreaser.

 

John

[baldie]

If you struggle for any reason to find some [you shouldn,t ] let me know, and i,ll bring you 5 litres down to the phoenix buddy.

[firestarter]

Apologies for dragging up an old topic, but i was wondering how you guys got on with the Boron Nitride coating?

Did anyone find significant improvements?

 

Cheers

 

Sean

[Christian]

Hi Sean,

 

I dropped the idea for logistical reasons so can't help you I'm afraid. You could talk to gunsgobang88, as I believe he has done a lot of work.

 

 

Regards,

 

Christian

[DaveT]

We Moly coat for a couple of rifles at home and it is messy stuff, I have often considered trying HBN but never found a suitable UK source. Baldie's excellent write up has re-kindled my interest again so can anyone point me in the direction of a UK stockist at a sensible price?

 

 

Davy

 

The following source can sell Boron in half kilo or more quantities.(I am buying some at 6 micron size) They are apparently already supplying top shooters. They are also supplying Boron aerosols for preping barrels.

 

www.precision-ceramics.co.uk

 

call Geoff Randall on 07970 448714

 

Cheers

 

Dave Thain

[baldie]

My 6mmSLR is fed on 115 D-tacs coated with HBN. The accuracy is excellent, and the bore isn,t fouling. I,ve shot around 100 rounds so far, with no loss of accuracy.

 

It has however, robbed me of some velocity. These are doing 2900, and should theoretically be doing 3000. The case will stand some more powder and pressure, but the accuracy isn,t there higher up.

 

Not to worry, accuracy, not silly speeds, count.