.338 Win Mag

[njc110381]

I'm after some info on the above calibre. Does anyone on here have one for Deer stalking or use abroad?

 

I keep reading and being told that a .30 isn't really that useful for bigger game. Mainly the larger Bears and possibly moose too. No matter how fast you drive the bullet, it's just not big enough to work on animals with a lot of fat or heavy muscle. I've had a chat with my firearms department and have been told that they will consider it for use abroad and here (once I explained that it's not the same as a Lap Mag).

 

I know I don't go abroad a lot, but I want something useful for when I do. As I don't go a lot I really would like to use it here so it doesn't just sit and gather dust. The Americans rate it for Deer if the right bullet is used and supposedly it doesn't do too much damage to the meat, certainly no more than the big .300s.

 

Am I making the right choice asking for this? I already have the slot for the .300 which would be excessive but not stupidly so for use here and I'm thinking the .338 may not be any more excessive but will be better for the task that I want it for in the first place ( as a Bear gun). I don't need anything bigger I don't think. Real big game use which would require a .375 or bigger is well outside my budget so to keep the police happy I don't need to go that big. I'd rather have something I can use for the bigger species here than a cabinet filler.

 

EDIT... And what's it like as a long range calibre on targets?

[Tiff]

It's a nice round and quite pleasant to shoot. However these days is to some degree over-shadowed by the larger .338's....Once the new Berger's come out with projected G1 B.C.'s in the high .8's/low .9's it could really help maximise on the smaller case volume.

Having been up close (sub 10m) with many bears, my advise would be if in close take as much gun as you can . Although if shooting from a more 'comfortable' distance, something like a big .30 or .338 will work well.

[baldie]

I would push the envelope as far as possible, and go .338 rum, if the flo will swallow it.

Being stomped on by a grizzly is not the time to find out you haven,t got enough gun.

Of course theoretically speaking, if they have granted you a .338, you can have any permutation in the calibre....thats the law.

[njc110381]

Thanks for the info. It looks to be a good round and my thinking suggests that as it throws a heavier bullet the recoil will be more of a smooth shove (like the .375) than a slap in the face like the .300s hand out? I find the .300 Win Mag a bit sharp to be honest, yet I fired 15 rounds of .375 from prone and in a t-shirt with no complaints at all? They were full stoked 270grn factory loads and I can honestly say my mates .270 Tikka was less pleasant to fire!

 

When I was in Canada most of the local hunters used .30-06 or .300 Win Mag, in fact the guy in the gun shop took great pleasure in laughing at the "crazy Englishman" who was standing at his counter asking for .375H&H Magnum!

 

Well when we were led prone waiting for a Deer two weeks later I was pleased with my choice. We heard some movement in the wood and a Grizzly appeared out of the woods around 30 yards behind us. According to my friend that wasn't the end of the world (at that point I was s***ting bricks) and it disappeared back where it came from. Well a lot more rustling later it appeared again about the same distance ahead of us. At that point even my friend was a little concerned with the amount of interest it was giving us and decided on a tactical retreat. I have to say that my .375 gave both of us a lot more confidence than his .270 did as we backed off to the car! That Bear was still in my sights when my arse hit the car seat and I've never been so glad to leave a place as I was that day!

 

As you all know the .375H&H would still be here if I was allowed to hunt with it, but it was just too big. It's a shame because it was the best comfort blanket I've ever held! The .338 isn't that far behind it for that size game so if I can get it I'm pretty sure I will. I can assure you that if he'd have got much closer he'd have got some. Once my mate showed concern I was ready to pull the trigger as soon as he said the word. I wouldn't have wanted him to get much closer and until you've actually seen one in the flesh you really can't even begin to imagine how big they are. Anyone who say's you'll be fine with a regular .30 has a screw loose. Picture a smart car with legs, fur and teeth the size of a .30-06 round!

 

Anyone else shoot a .338 Win?

[baldie]

Check the long range section out on snipers hide. The yanks shoot all the .338 wildcats. Funnily enough, they all seem more popular than the lap mag over there.

Regarding bullet weights....my 338 slaps harder with 250 grain bullets than it does with 300,s.....dont ask me why.

[njc110381]

I don't think it slaps harder with the lighter bullets, just more slowly perhaps? That's the theory I came up with when I was shooting my .375. A guy at the club I shoot at uses a .45-70 and that's the same. It gives you a damn good shove, but it's not sharp enough to hurt.

[maltbuck]

Have got .338 win mag cracking round. V popular abroad, esp Africa, speak to a couple of PH's and they will generally give glowing reports, better than .300 win mag for knock down, yet nowhere near the clout of .375. Not a buffalo calibre though!!

Lot of Scandies using it for moose as well.

 

Police forces can get twitchy though!.

[njc110381]

I don't think it slaps harder with the lighter bullets, just more slowly perhaps? That's the theory I came up with when I was shooting my .375. A guy at the club I shoot at uses a .45-70 and that's the same. It gives you a damn good shove, but it's not sharp enough to hurt.

 

Well I got that all muddled up didn't I. I meant to say that the recoil from the heavier bullets gives a slower shove, or at least that's what I found.

 

 

Have got .338 win mag cracking round. V popular abroad, esp Africa, speak to a couple of PH's and they will generally give glowing reports, better than .300 win mag for knock down, yet nowhere near the clout of .375. Not a buffalo calibre though!!

Lot of Scandies using it for moose as well.

 

Police forces can get twitchy though!.

 

Thanks for that maltbuck. How do your force condition it for you? I'm hoping to get it in line with my other rifles, ie any legal quarry and no ground restrictions. They've given me that condition for a .300 magnum, I can't see why a .338 should be any tougher to get?

[Tiff]

They've given me that condition for a .300 magnum, I can't see why a .338 should be any tougher to get?

 

Because as we all know a 200 grain bullet from a .338 is way more dangerous than a 200 grain bullet from a .30 cal....

 

".338 is too powerful for UK field use and is what British snipers use".....That last statement is a direct quote from a senior firearms licensing person in D&C. Says it all really!

 

All I can say is good luck.

[njc110381]

That was the standard reply from my chap. My answer was that's like saying you can't have a .22lr because it fires the same size bullet as a .22-250! The round I have asked for is totally different to the Lapua Magnum and has no more power than the .300 magnum. Don't overlook that some of the .300 magnums (that I've already been granted) actually have more muzzle energy than the .338 Win and also exceed the 4500 joule range energy limit that you've quoted as a restriction. The .338 bullet is smaller than that of a .45-70 which is listed in the guidelines as suitable for Deer. So if the energy is no higher than a large .30 which you have deemed suitable for my use and the bullet is smaller than a .45, what grounds are you basing this decision on?

 

I was told to send a copy of his reply with the variation papers as a backing for my request (I always talk to the organ grinder rather than one of his monkies, and I have to say he's a reasonable bloke 99% of the time).

[Tiff]

Your reasoning above makes perfect sense.

However I've found that logical reasoning doesn't always seem to apply.... I shoot my own .30 cal that is at or above the energy levels of a .338 Lap mag, yet using a .338 LM for field use (the parent brass) is a firm NO. Still cannot work that one out.

 

Anyways best of luck and hopefully there a bit more logical in your area.

[njc110381]

You're in D&C aren't you? Well you don't really have to say any more on that, they're the reason I had to give up my .375H&H. I had a permission down there to shoot Reds which was the only thing my force needed to see, but when they contacted D&C they were told that there was no land in that area considered suitable and there never would be. So that was the end of that!

 

My force are very reasonable. Quite often at first they will give a standard answer of "no" if they're unsure, but if you follow it up with facts about what you're asking for and work with them a bit they'll accept a reasonable request. Quite often they've never heard of the gun being asked for as none of them as far as I know are keen shooters. As with most the number .338 got them on the defensive because all they hear about in their meetings are that the Lap Mag is a lethal bit of kit that has no place in civilian hands. It's all bull really isn't it, but they can only work with what they've been told.

 

All I really want is a rifle big enough to do the deed abroad that I can take out and shoot now and again here so I stay confident with it. There's little point relying on a gun to save your backside if you've only ever shot it on a range. We all know we can shoot sub MOA at a target but get out in the field with some adrenaline and no decent rest or time to settle into a shot and it all goes out of the window! When that happens the more margin for error you gun and experience can offer, the better off you'll be!

[njc110381]

I would push the envelope as far as possible, and go .338 rum, if the flo will swallow it.

Being stomped on by a grizzly is not the time to find out you haven,t got enough gun.

Of course theoretically speaking, if they have granted you a .338, you can have any permutation in the calibre....thats the law.

 

 

I was just reading through the topic again and noticed your comment, I missed it before somehow.

 

I seem to be right on the borders of reasonable with what I'm asking for. The .338win is enough for my needs and the only time a bigger version would be of any help would be at longer range. Also, have you seen the step up in recoil from the Win to the RUM? It's pretty hard on the shoulder for what you gain! I don't really want to take a beating if I can help it and even the Win is pretty good at telling you that you've pulled the trigger!

 

I think I'm going to need a Limbsaver pad or similar. I'm not sure but I think they really help. I had one on my .375 and it wasn't that bad to shoot at all. Unfortunately I never fired it with the old pad on so couldn't compare it.

 

I've specifically asked for the .338win to reassure them that I don't want to pull the wool over their eyes and buy something huge. I have to also consider that I'll be needing to load the Win with start loads and tough bullets so I don't destroy what I shoot when I'm using it here.