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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm hoping to go to Stickledown Wednesday week with my .300WM. After tuning my loads with my new micrometer bullet seating die I'm hoping for great results :) The NRA in it's wisdom have decided that mid summer is a good time to refurbish the electronic targets, so they are out of use until some vague time in the future  - mid August ish. So my mate and myself have had to stump up for a marker for an afternoon. We prefer to have an hour before and after lunch lunch so avoiding the rush hour traffic, given we have a long drive. As we won't be able to see our group on a screen I guess it will be best to note on paper where the shots have landed. Not really being a competitive chap I have just plumped for the NRA face target as it was on the top.

Would the shot record sheets you have linked to look great - is there an explanation of how to use then for those who have never used such a thing before? Any pointers much appreciated :) 

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Guy's a word of caution, we've had two resent club sessions that were supposed to be electronic one at 900 one at 1000, moved onto "manual" and to be honest the quality of the markers has been abysmal.  Hopefully in your case mid week, might mean you get the more professional guys, but the weekend crew are variable to say the least.  

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1 minute ago, martin_b said:

Guy's a word of caution, we've had two resent club sessions that were supposed to be electronic one at 900 one at 1000, moved onto "manual" and to be honest the quality of the markers has been abysmal.  Hopefully in your case mid week, might mean you get the more professional guys, but the weekend crew are variable to say the least.  

We're at Bisley on Saturday and we have been told it will be "manual" due to electronic target maintenance 

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1 hour ago, Ralpharama said:

Would the shot record sheets you have linked to look great - is there an explanation of how to use then for those who have never used such a thing before? Any pointers much appreciated :) 

When you say 'NRA face targets' I assume you mean the standard GB NRA TR target face, lets say 1000 yards which is listed in the plot sheets that JCambellSmith has attached.  The squares represent one minute of angle, so approx ten inches x ten inches at 1000 yards. The circles obviously represent the scoring rings, so V bull in the centre going outwards.   If you are sensible and have your sights calibrated in MOA, then you can navigate around the target, assuming you can hit the target, subject to wind effects.  The two graphs allow you to record the mean wind and elevation throughout a series of shots, but you normally have to start with an assumed 'corrected' wind deflection and elevation setting (probably a bit too complicated to get into for what you need).  The chart on the right is to record the elevation and wind correction for each shot fired in the series, the ones I use have both a column for the actual value you had on the sight when it was fired and then the correct value, assuming that is different (quite often!), plus a place to enter the score for each shot.    There is also a wind chart in MOA which shows the wind deflection for various angles from the firing point and flag strengths, but may not be relevant to the ammunition you are using although the relative differences between parameters would be the same, ie going from half value to full value wind direction.   Personally, I don't use the graphs, just write a number on the scoring rings that represents the position of each shot fired and the wind that was applied to the sight for each shot.  If the wind is steady I don't even bother with recording the sight value, preferring to watch the flags and mirage than have my head buried in a plot sheet.

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6 hours ago, Ralpharama said:

I'm hoping to go to Stickledown Wednesday week with my .300WM. After tuning my loads with my new micrometer bullet seating die I'm hoping for great results :) The NRA in it's wisdom have decided that mid summer is a good time to refurbish the electronic targets, so they are out of use until some vague time in the future  - mid August ish. So my mate and myself have had to stump up for a marker for an afternoon. We prefer to have an hour before and after lunch lunch so avoiding the rush hour traffic, given we have a long drive. As we won't be able to see our group on a screen I guess it will be best to note on paper where the shots have landed. Not really being a competitive chap I have just plumped for the NRA face target as it was on the top.

Would the shot record sheets you have linked to look great - is there an explanation of how to use then for those who have never used such a thing before? Any pointers much appreciated :) 

Here you go, I hope it's what your are after.  https://serc.org.uk/assets/files/How-to-do-Full-Bore-Plotting-by-Nic-Boyde.pdf

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13 hours ago, Ralpharama said:

 We prefer to have an hour before and after lunch lunch so avoiding the rush hour traffic, given we have a long drive.

Bear in mind that the marker can only get in and out of the stickledown butts at the start and end of the morning or afternoon sessions an hour either side of lunch won't work too well

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My advice, use a pencil, don't bother plotting graphs especially if you've not practiced. It can be useful to plot elevations afterwards to spot trends and to get an average for future use. As Leeman says you need to be watching the wind not plotting it!

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10 hours ago, nCognitos said:

Many thanks for that. That really is a full explanation. I shall make more effort to learn from it. I have always made by wind adjustments on the scope without noting anything down. With a bit or lateral thinking I may be able to edit the cards to work with mil rads. When I bought my first long range scope it was suggested that I should go mil rad so I did. If I could turn back time I would go for MOA, but as I went mil rad to start with, it makes sense for all my scopes to be one or the other. I certainly can't afford to change them all!  

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19 hours ago, Ralpharama said:

Many thanks for that. That really is a full explanation. I shall make more effort to learn from it. I have always made by wind adjustments on the scope without noting anything down. With a bit or lateral thinking I may be able to edit the cards to work with mil rads. When I bought my first long range scope it was suggested that I should go mil rad so I did. If I could turn back time I would go for MOA, but as I went mil rad to start with, it makes sense for all my scopes to be one or the other. I certainly can't afford to change them all!  

I have both, just need to remember that 1 Mil is about 3.5MOA, (actually 3.38 MOA but who is going to be that precise!)  and that 3 clicks is  about a Mil, works well enough for government work as they say.  After 30 years I'm just going back to using plotting sheets I'm going to set up my turrets on the zero range tomorrow to read 0/0 at 300yds and then plot from there.  It really is much simpler on TR vernier sights, which give an absolute reference but I will make it work somehow.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I took my Sabatti .300 Win Mag to Stickledown yesterday, full of apprehension about the manumatic targetry, particularly after so many folk had furnished me with tales of woe about markers. 
I had invested quite a lot in time and money to improve my ammo and combined with the long and not especially pleasant drive from God’s own county of Somerset to Bisley and wanted a good result.

All went well with HME testing in only three rounds deliberately spaced to avoid the armoury chaps not accepting one ragged hole made by three expensive projectiles.

I picked up the radio, which made no noise when switched on and set up my table at the firing point; the NRA ones seem to like to add jeopardy by being extremely flexible. Mine was made by Forme Rifle Stocks as was the rifle stock and both have proved very prudent investments.

When the hooter sounded for the start of play I tentatively pressed the TX button on the radio was pleasantly rewarded by a chap announcing that he was Butts .

i explained that I would be kicking off with the Tomfoolery of my .303 with iron sights and he told me that was no problem. The wind was typically brisk and bringing with it smoke from the burning MOD woods, but that wasn’t stopping us. My chum is a bit less experienced than myself and struggled to get his .308 on target, but our marker was supremely helpful radioing us to inform us where each miss had gone. Once I finally got some rounds in the black with the LE I broke out the Sabatti.

After a few rounds to get the measure of the wind the 208gr Hornady ELD-Ms were flying through the V bull virtually every shot. 

I had changed to a single stage press using the breach lock system and invested in micrometer seating dies and mandrel dies together with a comparator for my calipers and a Hornady tool for measuring the jam point. What a difference! At 100yards in Monmouth tunnel at 0.028” back from jam I was getting repeatable 7mm groups from a standard rifle, apart from the stock.

I am one seriously happy punter. Clearly plenty of folk were put off by the lack of computerised scoring as we had Stickledown to ourselves😃 I did thank our marker and passed on my positive comments when I returned the radio.

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Well done Ralph, always very rewarding to see time and effort pay off.

With regard to butts markers, our club was at Bisley last Saturday on Century in the morning and Stix in the afternoon.  The markers were faultless and quick,  very pleased compared to the month previously with the debacle of the non-functioning electronics.  We of course thanked our markers, they need to know they've done a good job.

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