Precision semi auto .22

[Happy plinker]

Hello all,

I was wondering if there is any true  .22 semi auto precision rifles on the market or is the only real option a bolt action 

[Aggy]

In my experience semi autos I have had have all been ok giving reasonable groups at reasonable distance but to get real precision you can’t beat a bolt action .

spikes tactical st.22

tactical solutions 

semi custom 1022 ,green mountain barrel all about the same 

[phoenix]

The words "semi-auto" and "precision" are a contradiction in terms 😃

If you want precision it has to be a single shot/bolt action

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[Leeman]

Not necessarily, there are plenty of accurate rifles built on 10/22's, Volquartson, AMT etc that would rival most bolt actions.  The main detriment to rimfire accuracy is the ammo, always has been, always will be.

[Happy plinker]

What would you suggest is a good semi auto with good accuracy begara maybe

[fourtyvoats]

I wrote the following paragraphs on my club's web site and FB page in an essay entitled "A beginner's guide to buying a Rifle. This was because I had noted that many of the people who asked to join our club has already committed to purchase a semi auto .22, often in a military looking configuration. Most of these were going to be target shooters, not hunters.

 

"The essence of accuracy is consistency. You can improve consistency of equipment by spending money up to a point, then the usual law of diminishing returns set in. The bigger variable is you and that takes a lot longer to get consistent.

.22 Semi autos can have superb barrels, superb triggers, superb stocks and bedding, but what you can not change is the action. The bolt is held in place by a spring, recoils after firing and returns to battery. Any variation in when the bolt starts to recoil, or how quickly, will affect barrel pressure which in consequence affects accuracy. Springs wear in time. The temperature affects the viscosity of the lubricant which changes as the gun warms up. Some center fire semi autos have rotating bolt heads with lugs which go some way to address the problem, but not .22s.

In contrast, a bolt action is locked in position throughout the firing cycle.

 

A little digression here concerning M4/M16/military looking semi autos. They look attractive, look like fun to use and are relatively cheap. Avoid like the plague. Any I have examined are cheaply put together with as much plastic as possible. The trigger pulls are extremely heavy, the barrels lightweight and a lot of the weight is cosmetic and serves no purpose. I weighed the trigger pull on one recently and it was over 12 lb in comparison to a very cheap bolt action which would generally be about 3 lb. This particular gun was branded with a well known name of a producer of accurate target type firearms. On examining the construction, the airsoft type construction origin was clearly seen, even down to using a thin barrel. Held inside an alloy outer tube which looked like a heavy barrel. Thin barrels do not lead to accuracy.

In summary, at any given price point, a bolt action rifle will be more accurate than a semi auto rifle.

 

I suspect that some will not agree with these sentiments.

[gazzarM1]

10-22 ,green mountain barrel,Magpul stock trigger smoothed out and .6 inch @ 50 yds with Lapua match.Not benchrest but good enough for a lot of folk.

[Happy plinker]

Does sound good

[phoenix]

2 hours ago, Happy plinker said:

What would you suggest is a good semi auto with good accuracy begara maybe

Define what you mean by good accuracy

2 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards?

1 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards?

1/2 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards?

etc

You can have semi auto plinking rifle and get loads of fun and enjoyment from it, but if you try to use the same rifle for target shooting ( particularly alongside people using single shot and bolt action rifles) you'll get nothing but frustration

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[Popsbengo]

Semi-autos may be useful as vermin control tools, they may be attractive as wanna-be black rifle substitutes,  they are fun for plinking, but what they're not is accurate target rifles.

Much as "fourtyvoats" says above is my experience - many newly minted target club shooters want a semi-auto, many get rid after the novelty wears off and they can't compete with their mates bolt-action rifles.

I have no issue with semi-autos as long as the owners pick up their bl*ody brass !

[Happy plinker]

I think I'll go for a bolt as ultimately its easier to get a decent one cheaper than a semi auto.

Ultimately it will be a plinker for normally 25yds but sometimes 50yds

[outlanda]

21 hours ago, Happy plinker said:

What would you suggest is a good semi auto with good accuracy begara maybe

Looked at Begara BXR and put off by reviews. My suggestion would be a CZ512 as found this as accurate and reliable as a CZ455 out of box. Not 'tacti cool' i know and still has issues as any semi auto will have.

Fortyvoats - a little harsh but  true. Problem with US AR-22's they are $500 plinkers sold for a £1k in UK and still are plinkers. £2k for something better is just silly. With lower expectations they should not disappoint.

Resale of any semi auto means pain.

As for pest control - may be close range but not as good as a cheap bolt action and they will be leaving brass behind for the land owner - just a no no. 

[BlueBoy69]

I guess someone who thinks .22 LR semi-autos are inaccurate needs a go on my Rimfire Magic RM-22. It's at least as accurate as my previous sporting bolt actions, a SAKO Quad and a CZ 455. Unlike them however by the time you managed to fire a few rounds from either bolt action, the RM-22 can put all ten rounds in roughly one ragged hole at 25 yards. And that's 's not silly rapid fire it as fast as you can shooting, just fire, re-aim, fire, re-aim, etc., until the mag's empty.

Obviously none of them were not as accurate as my old Anschütz Match 54, but that was a nice solidly made basic single-shot match rifle.

As to the US AR-15 like 22 rimfire rifles, I've no experience with them as I'm not very keen on faux military rifles of any kind.

[Aggy]

Slightly off topic but that accuracy is easily bettered by most modern pcp air guns At double that 50 and 100 yard tiny groups 

[fourtyvoats]

That is what I would expect. Minimise the variables, minimise the group sizes. You did forget to mention the wind though.

[Dellboy]

I have a CMMG 22  A Beryl 22 and of course a Rugger 10/22(an old metal one )   at 25 &50 yard club competitions they are all better than me at 100 yards the first two are better

But at 100 yards the CZ455 and an old Anshutz 54 are much better  and the new CZ457 LRP is almost boringly accurate .

 

Hourses for courses

[outlanda]

On 2/19/2022 at 10:26 PM, phoenix said:

Define what you mean by good accuracy

2 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards?

1 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards?

1/2 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards?

etc

You can have semi auto plinking rifle and get loads of fun and enjoyment from it, but if you try to use the same rifle for target shooting ( particularly alongside people using single shot and bolt action rifles) you'll get nothing but frustration

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

As Bruce has asked; what is good accuracy for a 'precision' semi auto - if there is such a thing. A scope with high mag is probably required for best results and as mostly semi's are used with low mag, red dot sights and open sights, 2" at 50 yds with be quite an achievement. Heavy triggers don't help and anyway, after finding some ammunition it likes, why shoot groups with a semi auto when its not the intended purpose. 

[BlueBoy69]

10 hours ago, outlanda said:

As Bruce has asked; what is good accuracy for a 'precision' semi auto - if there is such a thing. A scope with high mag is probably required for best results and as mostly semi's are used with low mag, red dot sights and open sights, 2" at 50 yds with be quite an achievement. Heavy triggers don't help and anyway, after finding some ammunition it likes, why shoot groups with a semi auto when its not the intended purpose. 

For me the rifle produces one slightly larger than one bullet hole 10 shot groups at 25 yards in an enclosed (underground) range. At 100 yards between 1.0-2.0 inches depending on the weather and ammo available.

Both of the above figures are roughly the same as my two previous .22LR sporting bolt actions. The accuracy is more than enough for me, as it's only really used for small game up to 100 yards. If I want to take longer shots I'll use my 22 or 6 mm PPC rifles, which are both bug hole shooters!

I don't really know why you are so adamant that 22 semi-autos can't be both accurate and precise; mine is both? They aren't all cheaply built AR-15 or similar military look-a-likes by the way, though you seem to think they are for some reason only known unto yourself? Good quality semi-autos do not have to cost a bomb either, though mine was second hand and cost about £450 (see image).

[outlanda]

3 minutes ago, BlueBoy69 said:

For me the rifle produces one slightly larger than one bullet hole 10 shot groups at 25 yards in an enclosed (underground) range. At 100 yards between 1.0-2.0 inches depending on the weather and ammo available.

Both of the above figures are roughly the same as my two previous .22LR sporting bolt actions. The accuracy is more than enough for me, as it's only really used for small game up to 100 yards. If I want to take longer shots I'll use my 22 or 6 mm PPC rifles, which are both bug hole shooters!

I don't really know why you are so adamant that 22 semi-autos can't be both accurate and precise; mine is both? They aren't all cheaply built AR-15 clones by the way, though you seem to think they are for some reason only known unto yourself? Good quality semi-autos do not have to cost a bomb either, though mine was second hand and cost about £450 (see image).

 

[outlanda]

 thought your comments were aimed at me. Previous experience has shaped my opinion. I have owned a custom 10/22 with only the receiver being original. Only rifle ever owned i regret selling. Painful loss and replacement was hopeless. As i mentioned (if you care to read) i have owned a CZ512 and recommend it for 1/2" 5 shots at 50 yards out of the box and less than £350. It was equal to my CZ455 even with a heavy trigger and clockwork reliable - something the 10/22 was not. I have an AR- 22 because it was an itch i wanted to scratch and just because i can. I have criticised it often and tell it how it is without tinted glasses. 

At one point it was going but recent events means it has survived. It will be my last semi auto so enjoy it while it lasts and use as intended before giving up on semi's. My last comment you jumped on was a question of what is considered good accuracy. Perhaps you know the answer and care to share it in this little debate. I think sights play are large part in expectations imho. Not 25yds in a tunnel though as my and probably any AR type will match your results - its no test for a .22lr and wouldn't waste my valuable time doing it. As quite rightly mentioned an air rifle will do that all day long.

To clarify; - i think a semi auto can be accurate depending on what that accuracy is, the trade off is consistency, reliability and cost. It will usually be custom and expensive  or a lucky find - the CZ  and probably others  i dont know about can be the exception. My preference for .22lr 'precision' would be a bolt action and i dont think i have said otherwise.  FFS 
    

     

[les]

How many semi auto .22's have won Olympic medals?  🤔

They are plinkers, and as such they are a great deal of fun. Nothing puts a smile on a blokes face quicker than a session at the range with a .22 semi, but let's not pretend that they can compete with bolt actions.

Yes, there will always be one in a thousand that is OK, but it usually comes at a high price, whereas even the most beat up £100 CZ452 etc will beat 99% of semi autos on the range.

[Ballistol]

12 hours ago, BlueBoy69 said:

For me the rifle produces one slightly larger than one bullet hole 10 shot groups at 25 yards in an enclosed (underground) range. At 100 yards between 1.0-2.0 inches depending on the weather and ammo available.

Both of the above figures are roughly the same as my two previous .22LR sporting bolt actions. The accuracy is more than enough for me, as it's only really used for small game up to 100 yards. If I want to take longer shots I'll use my 22 or 6 mm PPC rifles, which are both bug hole shooters!

I don't really know why you are so adamant that 22 semi-autos can't be both accurate and precise; mine is both? They aren't all cheaply built AR-15 or similar military look-a-likes by the way, though you seem to think they are for some reason only known unto yourself? Good quality semi-autos do not have to cost a bomb either, though mine was second hand and cost about £450 (see image).

That’s a good looking looking rifle 👍🏻

[20series]

To be honest, most of the accuracy in .22lr comes from finding the right ammo for the rifle.  And that isn't always the brand or type, I started shooting in the prone .22 world and batch tested at Eley several times, back then you could only test Tenex which could provide staggeringly different groups from batch to batch.

Alan

[AckImp]

This comes up regularly. Very few off the shelf semi-auto .22LR rifles exist that will compete with a good bolt action.

However, look a bit further than club experts and plinkers, and you'll see an awful lot of medals won with semi-autos, in comps that are equally well suited to a single shot or manual repeater.

A good quality barrel, matched with good quality ammo, on a 10/22 will shoot amazingly well. It all depends what discipline you intend to shoot. If it's just for plinking, a good semi-auto's more fun, and will shoot almost as well as a dedicated target rifle that might not be any use for any other disciplines you end up wanting to try.

[1066]

I really don't see why a semi-auto with a locked breech option isn't more popular. My old Voere semi-auto had this feature and was very accurate (for a semi-auto) when shot in single shot mode. It did unfortunately suffer from a lousy trigger.

To lock the breech on a .22lr could be a very simple affair, nothing more than, say a 6mm rod, and the bolt and receiver cross drilled - load your round from your single shot magazine adapter, slide in your cross pin - bang. Yes it might be slow but it could well improve accuracy.

I had a look at a fancy 10/22 with aftermarket fluted barrel recently - headspace 60 thou and really quite a sloppy chamber, I would like to have seen just how accurate it was but never had the chance.