Reloading 308 GGG

[Frederick]

I have about 800 fired GGG brass cases in 308 .

I plan to reload and have a reamer and a swager on order to remove the crimp .

My Savage Ftr has a chamber of 2.262 .

A GGG 308 has an  CBTO of 2.190 , meaning a jump of .072.

The cartridge has a  col of 2.795 which is textbook spot on .  Vihtavuori recommend 2.795 .

I will use Sierra 155 hpbt and CCIBR2 large primers .

I'm torn between n140 or n150 ?

Sierra state n140 but Vihtavuori state n140 or n150 .

I will probably try n150 as I already have some .

The powder in the GGG is spherical and it weighed 42.5g .

My plan is to replicate the GGG as near as possible , even though they use a different powder mix .

As the GGG brass is slightly heavier than Lapua etc I will reduce the max load by 1.5 grains as the case capacity may be smaller .

I normally start with a .010 jump but in this instance I was going to try and copy the GGG as much as possible , therefore textbook col . 

I shoot from 100 to 600 yds with occasional outings out to 1000 yds .

The above is just quick overview 🥴 had anyone got any advice/ recommendations ?

 

 

[Re-Pete]

Try RS 52 powder with a 155 grain bullet. Powder is available at Bisley, Hut 60.

Pete

 

[Frederick]

Well , change of plan .

Couldn't buy 155g Sierra , my club shop is still waiting for a delivery 🥴 .

Bought some 168g Sierra with Hogdon CFE223 ( again waiting for a delivery of n140 ) powder and CCIBR2 LRP .

As stated I shoot from 100 to 600 with occasional outings to 1000 yards .

Will be an interesting exercise 😀

 

 

 

 

[Richiew]

On 10/9/2021 at 4:34 PM, Richiew said:

I’m using N135 for 223 52 to 73 grain bullets 24.5 to 23 grain for above bullets and also for 155 grain bullets in 308 using 43 g for the hornady 155s and 42.5 g for Berger 155.5s . Lapua brass and cci primers for both calibres . Very happy with the loads . Going to try n540 for the 223 soon and I also use 44.5 g of N150 for the heavier 175/185 Berger or 178 eldms by hornady in 308”. 
cheers

Have a look back in handloading posts . N150 for the heavier bullets , n140 will do 155 s at upto 46 grain s and also try n135 at around 42.5 grain for 155s . Good loads upto 700 yards then the heavy s take over upto 1000  . Cheers 

[Richiew]

Have a look on YouTube at johnnys reloading bench lots of bullet & powder combos . Lots of good info . Plenty of powders that we use in the uk too . Mostly through AR s but very good sd s and speeds turn up with commonly used uk combinations which could give you some good starting points .

[Leeman]

22 hours ago, Frederick said:

 

Will be an interesting exercise 😀

 

 

 

 

Sure will, Sierra 168's out of a .308 have a long history of going through the target sideways at 1000 yards

[Mike 01]

Hi Frederick, as noted by Leeman, your Sierra 168 grain projectiles aren't going to be much use at 1,000 yards!  They should work really well between 100 to 600 yards (and even up to 800 yards), but the Sierra 168 grain bullet shape just doesn't work beyond that.  Indeed, there's a good chance that a 168 grain projectile fired from a .308 Win won't even connect with the target at 1,00 yards.  If you can locate them, Sierra 175 grain projectiles should work just fine at 1,000 yards.  (I'm not saying that the Sierra 175 is necessarily the best choice, but it should at least find the target!)

[Frederick]

The 168 was designed for 300 mts I believe 😉

I intend to use them out to 600 yds and will look into 155 Palma or 175 for longer ranges .

The problem with 168g appears to be the angle of the boat tail causing instability and  hence becoming transonic around 1000yds ish. 

 

 

[Richiew]

Try to get some GGG with the 175 Sierra match king bullet and see how they go then try to copy that . Hornady 155 or 178 eldms fly well and are a bit easier to get hold of . Cheers 

[Frederick]

2 hours ago, Richiew said:

Try to get some GGG with the 175 Sierra match king bullet and see how they go then try to copy that . Hornady 155 or 178 eldms fly well and are a bit easier to get hold of . Cheers 

Now that's a good idea , thank you 😀

[Frederick]

25 minutes ago, Frederick said:

Now that's a good idea , thank you 😀

I started reloading my 6.5cm about 6 months ago . 

I had instruction and used Sierra 140g Hpbt . Must admit after ladder tests the groups were excellent .

Made a mistake in thinking perhaps a different bullet would prove accuracy . So I tried Lapua , Barnes and Hornady 🥴 . To much to soon , lesson learned .

However the Hornady ELD match were very accurate .

Whereas I'm finding Sierra bullets difficult to source , it's not so with Hornady .

I think I may try some ELD match in 308 and this time stick with it until I have conducted ladder and seating depth tests and chrono the results .

It's what I should have done in the first place , we live and learn 😀

 

[Frederick]

2 hours ago, Frederick said:

I started reloading my 6.5cm about 6 months ago . 

I had instruction and used Sierra 140g Hpbt . Must admit after ladder tests the groups were excellent .

Made a mistake in thinking perhaps a different bullet would prove accuracy . So I tried Lapua , Barnes and Hornady 🥴 . To much to soon , lesson learned .

However the Hornady ELD match were very accurate .

Whereas I'm finding Sierra bullets difficult to source , it's not so with Hornady .

I think I may try some ELD match in 308 and this time stick with it until I have conducted ladder and seating depth tests and chrono the results .

It's what I should have done in the first place , we live and learn 😀

Well , well , just bought a box of 500 Sierra 155g Hpbt online at a good price may i add .

So putting the Hornady on the back burner for now .

My Savage likes NRA GGG which uses Sierra bullets I believe . Used the RCBS swager on the crimps with a quick/light  ream and pocket clean and got the first batch of cases into the tumbler 😀

 

[Triffid]

Reloading all those NRA GGG cases is something I've been looking at. . . particularly looking to match it ballistically as it works for me and most of my club members up to 1000X.

The Sierra 155 bullet they were originally loaded with has become expensive and harder to source, so I've switched to the Lapua 155 Scenar, using N140. Basic load development just varying powder charges left me with reasonable accuracy, but nothing to get too excited about. But then I had some HPS cases primed and ready to go from a previous project so I tried them in place of the GGG ones. This seemed to significantly improve the performance of the load.

I haven't quantified this yet and I want to do some more direct comparisons to remove any other variables, but it has me questioning the quality of the GGG cases.

Triffid

 

[Frederick]

Thanks Triffid , interesting observation .

I have now sourced 500 Sierra 155g (2155) Hpbt .

I intend to ladder test with various powders and seating measurements . 

I hope the GGG cases are good .

Please post your observations and I will do likewise 😀

[Frederick]

1 hour ago, Triffid said:

Reloading all those NRA GGG cases is something I've been looking at. . . particularly looking to match it ballistically as it works for me and most of my club members up to 1000X.

The Sierra 155 bullet they were originally loaded with has become expensive and harder to source, so I've switched to the Lapua 155 Scenar, using N140. Basic load development just varying powder charges left me with reasonable accuracy, but nothing to get too excited about. But then I had some HPS cases primed and ready to go from a previous project so I tried them in place of the GGG ones. This seemed to significantly improve the performance of the load.

I haven't quantified this yet and I want to do some more direct comparisons to remove any other variables, but it has me questioning the quality of the GGG cases.

Triffid

 

I'm not certain if the 7.62 GGG cases are slightly heavier than Lapua . This would mean thicker brass and less capacity .

Have you reduced the powder load to compensate or just used standard loading data as normal ?

I wonder if the crimp removal has any effect on accuracy ?

[Richiew]

2017

•  

The outstanding bullets in this bracket are Berger's two 185s, the Long-Range BT Juggernaut and the newer Hybrid. The latter may be too long though for your throat / and magazine operation. Both models are very expensive now and usually difficult to find in stock. Their RRPs are £68.75 and £71.98 / 100 respectively.

The 175gn Berger LR BT is a very sound design, but the new Sierra TMK has a virtually identical BC and is somewhat cheaper. I've been very impressed by TMK quality and results in the 7mm 160, so if this bullet is as well designed and made (and I would expect it to be so) it should be a good performer. The TMK has a 10% higher BC than the older SMK - I believe it is a wider redesign than just sticking an acetyl tip on the old model.

Berger's older 168, 175 and 185gn VLDs are ballistically very competent, but are full-house VLD form designs with very aggressive secant ogive front ends. This can make them hard work to 'tune'. The 168gn Hybrid is a superb long range performer and can be driven very fast, but it needs to be treated like a VLD and seated into the lands in most barrels / chambers.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/05/litz-field-tests-bcs-of-sierra-tipped-matchkings/

Hornady makes a 178gn HPBT Match, one of its new lines that were suspended during the great US components shortage period but is now back in production. Unlike the Sierras and Bergers it has a mild secant ogive. I've found it 'OK', but it hasn't been an outstanding performer in my 308 FTR rifle. Hornady also now produces 178gn thirties in the two ELD tipped varieties and as with most designs from this company, they're secant ogive. I've seen nothing at all so far in feedback on this particular bullet. It does appear to have got the old AMax's boattail angle 'sorted'. On its claimed BC, it's in the same bracket as the TMK and Berger LRBT. The old AMax thirties are poor very long-range bullets with the sole exception of the 208gn model.

Lapua makes both 175gn and 185gn Scenars, the former a recent 'L' type introduction. Neither has a high BC for its weight, in fact the 185 in particular has a very poor one. Both are well made and shoot well and are easy to tune being traditional tangent ogive nose forms.  They are a lot cheaper than the American bullets. Another very old Lapua design is still listed, the antediluvian 185gn D46 rebated boat-tail FMJBT, a successor to designs originally cooked up in the 1920s and 30s to make Finnish 7.62X53R Maxim guns shoot out to 5,000 metres ranges. This is a reasonably efficient design that works very well in some rifles and is very easy to tune. At around £45 / 100 it's a cheap bullet by today's standards.

•  
• QuoteHere’s a old one from Laurie to one of my posts 

[Richiew]

308 175 gr bullet makes which works best .

try this thread I started in 2017 

[Frederick]

Very interesting , thank you.

I understand the basics of reloading but there is sooo much more I have to learn.

Recommend any good books on the subject ?

[Richiew]

I’m still learning seven or more years on , especially with the 223 regarding neck wear on well used brass , had to go one size smaller on the neck bush lately so think the brass might be wearing thin also primer pocket is getting easier to squeeze new primers into so might be new brass time soon . 
berger and hornady manual s have good info regarding reloading and Laurie did a video reloading with Rosie which was fun . 
 

155s with 46 grain of n140 or 42.5 grains of n135 

175 and 185s with 44.5 grain of n150

loaded to 2.234 “ cbto case base to ogive or round about the 2.85” overall length work for my barrel . Start at 2.8” to get the best load for speed and accuracy then play with seating depths  . As always work upto your favourite loads from lower levels . Upto 600 y is relatively easy but the 1 k mark is much tougher with the 308 . Enjoy 

[Frederick]

Really appreciate your help Richview , some sound advice and very useful figures 😀

[Richiew]

Glad to help mate , just been through my notes and found info for eskdalemuir shooting where we trued up StrelokPro drops to real amount needed to get hits and found easy hits to 700 y but hard at 1000 y if you don’t get the atmospheric pressure blob on . This was with 155.5 Berger bullets 

[Frederick]

The 155 , 175 and 185 you referred to in your previous post , were Sierra or Berger ?

Do you use a 30" or 32" barrel ?

Twist rate 1:12 ?

[Richiew]

Moved to Berger and found them very consistent  . So all my bullets were bergers from a 1:12”  27” barrel . Not ideal twist for the 175 lrbt or the 185 juggernaut s but seems to work well . Tangent shaped bullets are easy to tune and are jump tolerant hence bergers as listed work well . Still have some 155 Amax but keep these for best at club comps ( 300 yards ) only  . Sierras are mostly tangent shape so have a poor ish bc but are very stable in the air  , the 155 TMKS I tried were good at 100 y but not so good past 400 y  but are more secant pointy shaped . 
Find a bullet that works then tweak the variables then STOP  fiddling . Wish I’d followed that info years back . Once you’ve got a good load buy them in bulk and just keep doing the same recipe , adjust for temp and barometer pressure with StrelokPro and you should be ok . What’s good in winter might be a bit hot in the summer so be aware. Take lots of notes too . 
cheers

[geek]

1 hour ago, Richiew said:

I’m still learning seven or more years on , especially with the 223 regarding neck wear on well used brass , had to go one size smaller on the neck bush lately so think the brass might be wearing thin also primer pocket is getting easier to squeeze new primers into so might be new brass time soon . 
berger and hornady manual s have good info regarding reloading and Laurie did a video reloading with Rosie which was fun . 
 

155s with 46 grain of n140 or 42.5 grains of n135 

175 and 185s with 44.5 grain of n150

loaded to 2.234 “ cbto case base to ogive or round about the 2.85” overall length work for my barrel . Start at 2.8” to get the best load for speed and accuracy then play with seating depths  . As always work upto your favourite loads from lower levels . Upto 600 y is relatively easy but the 1 k mark is much tougher with the 308 . Enjoy 

YouTube link: Reloading with Rosie - Episode 3 | Primed and Ready - YouTube

[Richiew]

Lovely Rosie playing with bullets