Annealing

[stottycake]

Does anyone use an induction heater to anneal there brass ,if so has it been successful, 

Cheers

Al

[John MH]

Yes and yes.

[stottycake]

Is it one of those hand held heaters,?

I'm thinking of buying one,and watched a few YouTube videos, and they seem less hassle then my gas bottle jobby, 

[jcampbellsmith]

Yes. One of these - https://www.ampannealing.com/

Regards 

JCS 

[stottycake]

I was thinking more along the lines of this

[Catch-22]

Yes. Works very well. Better than my flame annealer did.

[John MH]

AMP

[miki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF0YmmeEJK4

 

[stottycake]

18 hours ago, miki said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF0YmmeEJK4

 

Cheers ,very informative 👍 

[Catch-22]

The induction annealer you’re looking at is the same as I’ve got.

I followed the instructions per this video and it works a charm. Took 20mins to get setup (most of that was stripping the insulating plastic from around the cables) and is really great.

I get very consistent results and it anneals beautifully

 

[stottycake]

1 hour ago, Catch-22 said:

The induction annealer you’re looking at is the same as I’ve got.

I followed the instructions per this video and it works a charm. Took 20mins to get setup (most of that was stripping the insulating plastic from around the cables) and is really great.

I get very consistent results and it anneals beautifully

 

That's the video I watched first ,and that's why I was asking if it was worth doing,cheers 

Al

[Catch-22]

Yes worth doing. Easy to do, better than the flame torch, get good consistent results with it. 

[stottycake]

12 hours ago, Catch-22 said:

Yes worth doing. Easy to do, better than the flame torch, get good consistent results with it. 

Thanks mate, probably order one next week,👍

[stottycake]

8 minutes ago, stottycake said:

Thanks mate, probably order one next week,👍

Did you buy the timer ,or just do it manually so to speak,

[Catch-22]

22 minutes ago, stottycake said:

Did you buy the timer ,or just do it manually so to speak,

I bought the annealer (same as you see in the vid), the timer and an extension chord.

I used a very small Tupperware box, with lid, as the box for the wires and the timer to go into. But as the video shows, you could use an only box for bullets.

Ill pm you the eBay listings I used.

[DaveT]

Certainly an attractive price vs the AMP but surely more than a bit 'Heath Robinson'? in its setup and how can you know that the anneal is done right?

I would love a sub £500 solution but also want it to be as reliably foolproof as the AMP appears to be.

[phoenix]

No annealing method definitively tells you if its "done right"

The only way to be sure is to measure the hardness at the neck of the case before and after annealing.

See how that's done here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF0YmmeEJK4&t=1740s&ab_channel=RussDouglas222

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

 

[DaveT]

Thats my point....the AMP guys appear to have done exhaustive hardness testing to produce case-specific programs for spot-on annealing that you can believe in.

Although the underlying technology may be similar I don't see a valid comparison on price or accuracy between these two extremes of tech.

I want an AMP but struggle to justify the cost.

I run a gas system at present using Tempilaq.

It's clumsy using gas/Tempilaq but I can't see how guessing at induction annealing 'doneness' is any advance.

[Catch-22]

Using a cheap hardness testing device, per what Bruce shows, is really the only way to tell definitively.

Using tempilaq as an indicator is wrong because it’ll tell you when you’ve reached 750f…but that’s incorrect for annealing brass. Annealing brass at 750f only applies if heating for…30mins, by which time the heat has has sunk into the case head and ruined the brass.
To properly anneal your brass, without ruining the web, you need to go hotter 750f for shorter (called Flash Annealing), typically around the 1000f mark for a mere 2-3 seconds (all depends on the calibre, brand and metallurgy of brass used, output of the annealer, size and position of coil etc). But typically when reaching the 1000f mark, brass will change colour slightly and begin, ever so slightly, to turn a feint red. Bright orange is bad.

Then the only way to test whether annealing at that given temp+time is going to make a difference to your ES/SD is to go shoot over a chronograph. Go anneal for different lengths of time and watch for a lowering of ES/SD before it increases again. The time+temp of the anneal which produces the lowest ES/SD is the optimum anneal point for your brass.

Essentially, it’s this testing (finding the optimum anneal time+temp), and measuring hardness, is what you pay for with the AMP as they’ve done that leg work for you.

[phoenix]

Most people agree that the AMP annealer is the gold standard in inductive annealers and there's no doubt they have done a ton of research and work to produce a machine that does a good job of annealing cartridge brass.

The one part of their process I don't understand is that when you have brass that you don't have an annealing code for, you put it in the AMP and it destroys a case then gives a code for that specific brass.

I'd like to know what parameter(s) the machine measures to decide the exact annealing code

I'm presuming the code is some combination of power and time that gets the brass hot enough for long enough to get the hardness down to the same (or close to the same) as new brass

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[The Gun Pimp]

Best to email AMP - they are very good at answering queries.

[Popsbengo]

I've just "annealed" 200 .308 Lapua cases using molten salt method.  4sec at 520C.  As usual I expect excellent performance as previously achieved.  Cheap and (more importantly) extremely consistent process every time.

Not wanting to get into yet another round of arguments about this subject, using whatever process floats your boat,  I just offer the thought that (as Catch-22 says above) it's about the results.  I would add it's NOT about some variable hardness test or other such indirect measure of performance value.  For some it's also about case life.

I "anneal" .308 after shooting every 4th reload.  I full-length size about 2thou knock back, and I use a mandrel bullet press so I can feel the pressure of insertion - and it's very consistent. This is born out by results at the range (only place it matters).  Whether "annealing" is achieved is a moot point - I couldn't careless about the grain structure or some other quality measured in a lab (or not).

I routinely get sub 1/2 moa performance at +500yds.  The cases last until the primer pockets are too loose and I've never seen a hint of a neck crack.  Generally I get 12 ~14 reloads from a LRP Lapua case before I judge the primer pockets too loose.  I may get more from SRP cases - time will tell.

Not sure what else needs to be achieved ?

 

[KABOOM]

10 hours ago, Popsbengo said:

I've just "annealed" 200 .308 Lapua cases using molten salt method.  4sec at 520C.  As usual I expect excellent performance as previously achieved.  Cheap and (more importantly) extremely consistent process every time.

Not wanting to get into yet another round of arguments about this subject, using whatever process floats your boat,  I just offer the thought that (as Catch-22 says above) it's about the results.  I would add it's NOT about some variable hardness test or other such indirect measure of performance value.  For some it's also about case life.

I "anneal" .308 after shooting every 4th reload.  I full-length size about 2thou knock back, and I use a mandrel bullet press so I can feel the pressure of insertion - and it's very consistent. This is born out by results at the range (only place it matters).  Whether "annealing" is achieved is a moot point - I couldn't careless about the grain structure or some other quality measured in a lab (or not).

I routinely get sub 1/2 moa performance at +500yds.  The cases last until the primer pockets are too loose and I've never seen a hint of a neck crack.  Generally I get 12 ~14 reloads from a LRP Lapua case before I judge the primer pockets too loose.  I may get more from SRP cases - time will tell.

Not sure what else needs to be achieved ?

 

I think you got it right, brass life matters, not grain structure.

[shotgunner]

On 11/17/2021 at 9:05 PM, stottycake said:

I was thinking more along the lines of this

I use one excellent very pleased 

sold my gas anealler 

[GavinM]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:14 PM, miki said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF0YmmeEJK4

 

Great video, well worth a watch!