Jump to content
UKV - The Place for Precision Rifle Enthusiasts

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, baldie said:

I cannot believe grown men who will have owned all sorts of machinery, cannot grasp barrel break in.

I also cannot understand anyone who will willingly spend X amount of pounds on a new gun, be it a factory rifle, or a full blown custom, and not be prepared to spend a morning, running it in properly.

Dont listen to the idle sods who say its a waste of time, because they are talking out of their arse.

I will not guarantee any barrels accuracy, i've fitted, unless the customer follows my break in regime, which is..

5 x single rounds cleaning inbetween

5 x 3 rds, cleaning in-between.

2 x 5rds cleaning in-between.

Factory rifles will need more break in than a custom blank.

Barrels always speed up during the first 200 rounds.

Surely people are not that dense, as to not recognise the increasing speed is because the barrel is running in ? Are people so thick ?

I had a customer who put 200 rounds down an barrel, straight off, with poor results. It took me a day to get it cleaned properly, then it shot amazingly.

Barrels coming back from proof are lathered in copper, and literally glow orange. It takes an afternoon to remove it, and Bartlien blanks are the worst.

Subsequent shots show less copper, then less copper.........c'mon, even an idiot can see what is happening.

Microscopic pores in the bore, is what you are smoothing out, by shoot/clean. Fill them with initial copper without removal, and you will never get the best from it. If the barrel has reamer marks bad enough across the lands, then the reamer needs replacing.

Prove it scientifically and I'll believe you. Until then this is simply hearsay and your particular view on the subject. An experienced view, but just a view nonetheless.

Plus I'm not one of the "idle sods who say its a waste of time, because they are talking out of their arse". I have a pretty good grasp of degree level maths, physics, engineering and chemistry, so please don't be so insulting.

Frankly without actual scientific proof you could be speaking out of your posterior region just as loudly.
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a case of whatever works for you...........if you feel confident that your procedure is good, then you'll feel good, and probably shoot good.

There are many aspects of shooting that fall into the "black art" category. I recently shot a 0.64 moa 10-shot group at 300yds with a 6BR barrel that was described as "toast" a while back by someone who saw my borescope photo of the throat.

I'm assuming the Shotmarker system was working OK.........🙂

Pete

Screenshot_2021-11-04-11-21-51.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I listened carefully to the Bartlein video,  I can appreciate their advice based on a clear understanding of what's being "run-in".  

At the end of the day, the idea of a set regime of 1 clean, 1 clean, 3 clean etc etc is just an opinion.  Getting initial copper fouling out of the throat out may be better achieved with some other cleaning regime.  As the Bartlein chaps say, it's about copper fouling so simply saying "clean" doesn't do it for me,  copper doesn't get pushed out on a patch without chemical action from a remover.

Baldie's rant (for that's how it comes across) is an opinion, and I'll willingly agree an experienced opinion;  others of equal or greater experience may think differently.   Suggesting persons you don't know are lazy simpletons is rude and very possibly wrong.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a serious benchrest shooter I was always a great advocate of the 'shoot one, clean etc' for breaking in a new barrel but, then I read a very interesting article which changed my mind and I haven't used the 'shoot one, clean' method since.

When you shoot a 6PPC in benchrest competition you soon know if a barrel is a 'shooter' - or not. Personally, I've not noticed any loss of accuracy or reduction of barrel life by not running-in.

When I spin a new barrel on, I'll shoot maybe 20 odd rounds tweaking the load. Yes, it will probably take me a day to get the copper out but then it's ready for competition.

The theory behind the article is - if you continuously  'deep clean' when running-in you never 'burnish' the steel.

 

Barrel break.docx

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Gun Pimp said:

As a serious benchrest shooter I was always a great advocate of the 'shoot one, clean etc' for breaking in a new barrel but, then I read a very interesting article which changed my mind and I haven't used the 'shoot one, clean' method since.

When you shoot a 6PPC in benchrest competition you soon know if a barrel is a 'shooter' - or not. Personally, I've not noticed any loss of accuracy or reduction of barrel life by not running-in.

When I spin a new barrel on, I'll shoot maybe 20 odd rounds tweaking the load. Yes, it will probably take me a day to get the copper out but then it's ready for competition.

The theory behind the article is - if you continuously  'deep clean' when running-in you never 'burnish' the steel.

 

Barrel break.docx 133.82 kB · 4 downloads

Very interesting,  this is similar advice to other considered information I've read.   I'm intrigued by the reported amount of cleaning damage done by cleaning rod poor technique/lack of good kit.  I've always followed early advice to use the best quality and correctly sized rod and I've not observed any scratches using my Hawkeye scope.

I think I may have a go at making a Lucas style guide - I believe there unobtainable now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The last 2 new rifles purchased I ran several patches with JB compound before firing a shot. Both grouped extremely well and do so today. I spoke with a tech rep at Sinclair/Brownell's about this after the fact and the premis being I had removed the minute burrs and polished the lands. He agreed. So if you really want to do break in do so, this is another way of getting the same results with less time and shots fired.  Best wishes for good shooting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I met Vince I was introduced in JB Paste in sorting my 308 barrel out. My New 7mm Barrel were I was under his guidance of shooting and cleaning. I now use Vince method of shoot and clean on all my rifles. Thanks 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not going to apologise for a rant, because i've seen so many barrels not shooting to their optimum, because of bad advise.

I,m sick to the back teeth of hearing it in the shop, from people who have just spent 5k on a rifle, and are quite willing to ruin a barrel, on the advise of some idiot on the internet.

I have shot probably into the 100's of barrels, in personally, and observed it countless times on customers rifles.

I was at Diggle last week, shooting in a Sig cross. My two pals were there, one shooting in a new sassen, one shooting in a new Bartlien, both fitted by myself.

Usual methods were employed, the use of a chrono, and also a large target with many dots.

Its quite simple. You walk the gun onto zero cleaning as you go.

When you get to shooting the 5 x 3 shot groups, cleaning in-between......watch what magically happens.....how much more evidence do you need ? Or does it have to be mathematically written down, by some professor in the back of beyond, who has never pulled a trigger?

The sassen barrel broke in faster than the Bartlien did, it was plainly evident over the chrono, and on the targets. Both guns were shooting lovely by the end of the morning, and both guys were happy they had given the barrels the best start in life, and were basically using their old loads from the previous barrels i'd made them.

Neither barrel held any copper at the end of the process, and the goops/velocities got magically tighter as the process finished......it must be witchcraft.......

barrels that are not shot and cleaned in their first rounds can only fill the pores with copper. The pores cannot be levelled off by subsequent shots. these barrels end up being " i can't get the copper out" of this, or " i cant stop these carbon rings" etc etc. These are the barrels that take forever to settle down [if at all ] exhibit knife edge nodes etc. A properly run in barrel, will allow you to get to a good load faster, than one that isn't broken it. 

If you want to speed the process up, as a couple of forward thinkers have already said, the application of a bore polish, improved the process rapidly.

I use Losso on all my new barrels first, it certainly helps.

All proofed barrels come back in a mess with copper.

Again FROM WEEKLY EXPERIENCE....The proof copper is the very devil to remove. Those two rounds literally plasmerise the bore. I usually aim to remove 90% of it.The last bit will never move, and the gun has to be fired again to warm it up, then it will shift.

Different barrel brands behave differently at this point. Sassen blanks take 15 minutes to get clean, Bartliens take all afternoon. This is simply down to different lapping, both are absolutely fine once that initial copper has gone.

A properly run in barrel, will not hold copper for a very long time, until its near the end of its life.

Cold bore shots are more consistent, and the barrel will not require 20 rounds to return it to zero

I've proved all the above by actually doing it, on a weekly basis.

You can either take that as evidence, or not, I don't have a degree, etc etc.

I'm simply a gunsmith with over 25 years experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t see the issue. For the sake of 30 rounds and bit of time I would rather break a barrel in then risk having a rifle that’s going to be a pain in the ass and not be consistent. At the the end of the the day it’s not like your going to make the situation worse by doing it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave, in your experience have you noticed any difference in breaking in a barrel with how the rifling is produced- cut, button (push / pull) or hammer forged- not that anyone is going to put a hammer forged or CM ( chrome-molly) aftermarket barrel on their gat but it’s what’s from the factory with Sako / Tikka, Cz etc………..I’ve seen barrels being drilled and hammer forged at the Cz factory- wouldn’t want one for free - waste of ammunition.

Does process matter or is it mainly about smoothing the throat from the reamer cutting? Curious if the 200 FPS  speed gain is mainly from from the throating ( and first few inches thereafter of barrel) or if you notice a difference in cut and buttoned barrels in general on how they break-in.

John, you have a bag of barrels for your Tubb gat so any difference with the Polyaganol rifling regarding break-in?

Anyone had any experience with more exotic materials than standard SS 416, thinking mainly Loathar-Walther, I know that they are hard on reamers so would imagine break-in would also not be fun?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The barrel on the rifle that I mentioned earlier in this thread is a 30" Lothar-Walther 8 twist s/steel (button rifled), dating from 2007. It was "well used" with unknown round count when I got it in 2013, and I've since put around 2500 rounds through it. The throat area and first 100-150mm is badly fire cracked as can be seen in the pic. However, the forward 60% of the barrel is good, and it can still shoot a sub 1 MOA group.

Pete

100mm inside throat.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Montey said:

Just watch Eric Cortina on YouTube barrell break in 

hall of fame shooter and world record holder ect 

enough said 

No, not "enough said".  Other equally qualified shooters have differing opinion.  

What this seems to boil down to in my opinion is,  "this is what I do, I'm successful, copy me" .  I ask, has he ever tried not doing it or doing it another way so as to 'prove' his process is indeed the answer?   I doubt it.

Clearly there are differing procedures used and differing results claimed.  If there was one truly effective way then by now it would be uncontested.

I don't doubt there's some 'running in' from the first rounds (I'll not speculate on how many) and surely that depends on the surface finish of the barrel including the all-important throat, the steel grade and treatment, the method of rifling, etc etc.

It's certainly an interesting subject !

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Qualified??

speak to any one in the GB team and its Eric and Fclass John we watch and learn from 

put Speedy into that mix I'm hoping to take delivery of a speedy built rifle in 300wsm for Fclass open some time in the new year and I won't be running the barel in 

barel run in cant hurt but seems like a waste of my time and I've only got to go to my own two hundred yard range to do it takes me 5minutes to cross the road and set up!But I don't shoot factory Ammo in Fclass rifles so it's the time and use of components that I'm saving.

i won't shoot a rifle in a league shoot until it's got 200 plus through it some guys put a limit of 300 plus 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/31/2021 at 4:41 PM, martin_b said:

Hi all.

I should soon be picking up a new rifle, (my first ever brand new full bore)

My question is do I have to run in the barrel for XXX shots first or can I start load development immediately? 

After two pages of often conflicting advice I would be interested to know where you are now in terms of what you plan to do with your new rifle?

Did starting this thread help you any in making your mind up as to the route you will take? 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Big Al said:

After two pages of often conflicting advice I would be interested to know where you are now in terms of what you plan to do with your new rifle?

Did starting this thread help you any in making your mind up as to the route you will take? 

 

TBH I almost wish I never asked!

I'll probably end up with some sort of hybrid method, dependent on the weather, what i had for breakfast, and the phase of the moon, whilst reminding myself Im doing this for enjoyment 🙂

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, martin_b said:

TBH I almost wish I never asked!

I'll probably end up with some sort of hybrid method, dependent on the weather, what i had for breakfast, and the phase of the moon, whilst reminding myself Im doing this for enjoyment 🙂

 

😂   I did warn you!  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah - forums are a great place for opinions but not facts!

But, a final word maybe from Tony Boyer (the undisputed king of short-range benchrest, where accuracy is paramount and where a barrel that won't shoot in the 'ones' is junk).

Here's what Tony says in his book

"Barrel break-in is like religion or politics, there are people that swear by their particular method. All break-in methods have one goal - get the barrel to shoot well without fouling very much.

I've tried all the above mentioned methods (shoot one, clean etc etc)........ I just clean, put Lock-ease in the bore and shoot 20 shots

I break the 20 shots into two strings, shooting 10 shots slowly, waiting until the barrel cools, then shooting the next 10. After the 20 shots I do a thorough cleaning and that is it." 

(Lock-ease is a thin oil with added graphite).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

blackrifle.png

jr_firearms_200.gif

valkyrie 200.jpg

tab 200.jpg

Northallerton NSAC shooting.jpg

RifleMags_200x100.jpg

dolphin button4 (200x100).jpg

CASEPREP_FINAL_YELLOW_hi_res__200_.jpg

rovicom200.jpg

Lumensmini.png

CALTON MOOR RANGE (2) (200x135).jpg

bradley1 200.jpg

NVstore200.jpg



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy