Taffbats Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 Evening all I was wondering if there would be much interest in a mid priced, bench rest top quality (I'm taking bat, defiance, bighorn quality) British made action, aimed primarily at the prs/fclass benchrest crowd? I am a cnc machinist/toolmaker by trade and have access to some Gucci kit and was wondering if this is a journey worth pursuing? I realise there have been some great action builders who have come and gone, but can't imagine why if there is still demand for new US made receivers? Would you buy a British action on a par with Defiance for £750 say? Regards Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 I would (and have) if quality was on par. I guess our market has proven too small to sustain the investment? Thats the tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jame5m Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 Only one way to make lots of money supplying them UK shooting market… start with an obscene amount of money and keep spending and spending till you only have lots left…. the market is too small, I’ve been involved in a fair few projects that have gone nowhere… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Taffbats said: Evening all I was wondering if there would be much interest in a mid priced, bench rest top quality (I'm taking bat, defiance, bighorn quality) British made action, aimed primarily at the prs/fclass benchrest crowd? I am a cnc machinist/toolmaker by trade and have access to some Gucci kit and was wondering if this is a journey worth pursuing? I realise there have been some great action builders who have come and gone, but can't imagine why if there is still demand for new US made receivers? Would you buy a British action on a par with Defiance for £750 say? Regards Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 I use Barnard actions - not USA, New-Zealand. It would make no difference to me if it's British made or not - it's the quality and then price. I would also want to know the manufacturer is likely to be around in five years time just in case I need parts etc. You say you're a machinist & tool maker by trade, with respect, are you also able to produce a matured design and ensure engineering quality like materials etc? If not you will have some big costs to recover in the sale price I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 Kevin - have you missed the boat? Two top Brit actions have been and gone in the last 10 years - Russel Gall's actions even received praise when he took one (and shot it) to the World Benchrest Championships in the USA. Later, John Carr started manufacturing his actions - I have one and it's an excellent twin-port BR action but lack of a home market caused him to put them on hold. If there was sufficient interest he could easily start up again. Good actions are now readily available here - the excellent Canadian Deadline not to mention BATs, Barnard, Nesika, Borden etc. As a hobby yes - but as a business - probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 Surely, if you already have the CNC machinery, the expertise, and the time, all you need are the materials.........the big money has already been spent. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jame5m Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, Re-Pete said: Surely, if you already have the CNC machinery, the expertise, and the time, all you need are the materials.........the big money has already been spent. Pete Tooling, fixturing, material, programming, sub contracting costs, heat treatment, licensing, liability insurance, and watch you don’t infringe a patent… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffbats Posted October 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 Thanks for your input gent's, you've confirmed what I already suspected, I'll probably make a couple of actions for myself and leave it at that with the action idea. Is there a need for anything gun related in the UK market? Or is everything readily available these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlts Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 If you can make actions to that quality absolutely. It's only worth doing if it's worth doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDT Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 Bit of a shame there isn't a 'custom' British action maker. Defiance / Bighorn-level quality for £750 without importing and duties inflating the cost? Yes please! Maybe with the ever-increasing popularity of PRS-style shooting there might be more of a market than there was say 5 - 10 years ago for those aforementioned British-made actions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 There's scope for a decent 2-stage fully adjustable match trigger at a sensible price...........I'm in the frustrating position of owning an old Musgrave target action with a 6BR barrel that'll still shoot 1/2 MOA, but with a trigger that's definitely on borrowed time, and there's no longer any alternative available....... And what JDT just said +1... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banus02 Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 decent barrels and long lasting quality moderators at sensible money would be my choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 12 hours ago, Re-Pete said: Surely, if you already have the CNC machinery, the expertise, and the time, all you need are the materials.........the big money has already been spent. Pete If you are doing it of an evening as a hobby yes - as a business no, it does not work that way, unfortunately 😒 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 hours ago, JDT said: Bit of a shame there isn't a 'custom' British action maker. Defiance / Bighorn-level quality for £750 without importing and duties inflating the cost? Yes please! Maybe with the ever-increasing popularity of PRS-style shooting there might be more of a market than there was say 5 - 10 years ago for those aforementioned British-made actions? PRS is not ever-increasing despite what you might see on social media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furrybean Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, banus02 said: decent barrels and long lasting quality moderators would be my choice We already have a good UK barrel maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 16 hours ago, Taffbats said: Would you buy a British action on a par with Defiance for £750 say? Yes, many people would but you wouldnt make any money as the price point you describe is unrealistic. Regardless of price point your going to have to put a fair few samples out there for longevity and quality testing before I or others would risk using or recommending them. As Vince has already said, there isnt enough wind in the UK for that ship to sail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 hours ago, John MH said: PRS is not ever-increasing despite what you might see on social media. and could I be ever so slightly cynical and say 'and if it did not appear in 'what the pros use' then it would be dismissed out of hand'? 🤭😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Strangelove Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 3 hours ago, banus02 said: decent barrels and long lasting quality moderators at sensible money would be my choice Watch this space regarding the moderators…! Problem is, as with anything, you need to compromise to achieve both long lasting and quality. For both of those you’ll probably have a relatively high (£5-600+) RRP. Mods, like barrels, are consumables. The quality (ie, efficacy/greatest sound attenuation) is what I’ve been working on with a couple of RFDs up in Yorkshire recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 47 minutes ago, terryh said: and could I be ever so slightly cynical and say 'and if it did not appear in 'what the pros use' then it would be dismissed out of hand'? 🤭😉 surely your not suggesting people are influenced by what's fashionable rather than what's good 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 I think a good product needs to grow. Very seldom will a new on the market product be perfect in design or material choice. Any action I have so far seen seems to have room for improvement. In my opinion it is also too much for a single person to design, manufacture and keep quality control to the level needed. I have worked in the past with a few one man show action manufacturers. They had very good points, brilliant features but also some not so great. Over time that can be rectified. The Euro market in long range shooting will grow quite strong in the near future, Long Range comps on the mainland with over 400 entries recently. edi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffbats Posted October 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 Lots of food for thought in these replies, thanks everyone for your suggestions, when I've build a couple I might just dip my toes in the market and see how they go, if nothing sells then I've gained some extra rifles!!..👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted October 27, 2021 Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Taffbats said: Lots of food for thought in these replies, thanks everyone for your suggestions, when I've build a couple I might just dip my toes in the market and see how they go, if nothing sells then I've gained some extra rifles!!..👍 If you are going to invest any time in this then get on thing right from the very beginning. You absolutely must make the underside of the action identical to a Rem 700 or Tikka T3 footprint otherwise you have shot yourself in the foot for available stock options, also bear in mind the magazine well so it works with AICS mags and suitable floor plates. Personally I think its a waste of time even just for yourself as you wont gain anything that isnt already out there in terms of quality but if its to make you happy then by all means go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffbats Posted October 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2021 The action I've designed has nothing like it on the market and will best fit onto a chassis with no bedding needed, it borrows a couple of features from different rifles and has 2 unique design addons I've never seen used before on a receiver. The main aim is to have the smoothest cycling action throughout the complete reload, as nice as my bat is,(or any custom action for that matter) I still don't like the way the bolt has slop and is free to move about when fully opened, my action uses forward external guide rails as found on the Blaser SR850 which keeps the bolt fully supported straight and true throughout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted October 28, 2021 Report Share Posted October 28, 2021 Bolt slop is totally irrelevant. Dont fall into the trap of thinking "it has to be BAT quality" coz thats been one of the biggest "emperors new clothes" in the gun world for years. Straight true lugs that bear properly are all that is required. I proved it years ago with 2 bolts of different tolerances in one action. It made no difference. I had my own made for years, and also did all the R and D , testing etc for several years on them, trust me, you are wasting your time commercially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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