What’s your favourite 223 fox bullet .

[farmer_giles]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:57 PM, Richiew said:

No fox tonight and weather was dodgy so another week with no speed info for the 223 reloads . 73 elds are very very accurate and explode rabbit s and pigeons so well happy with the results. Got rained off by 8-30 . Waiting for the wheat to be cut . Tikka t3x 1-8” shoots everything well from 52g Amax to 73 grain Berger and hornady eldms  . Cheers 

Richie, what's the group size like at at 100y with the T3x 1-8" ? considering getting one. factory loads 55gr vs hand loads etc

[Richiew]

Hi there 

very happy with my t3x varmint stainless and wildcat moderator t12 compact model  . Sako 55 grain factory ammo are very good but have a large spread of speed from 3017-3078 but do group around the half inch mark . 73 grain Berger were very good with 22 grain of n135 . Now sorting loads out with n540 as from previous posts and one on top of two’s info . Hand loads seem to work great every bullet has been good - 52g Amax hornady, hornady ELD m 73g , Berger 73 g . Berger 55s and 60 grain and Berger 70 g vlds. Originally wanted the super varmint with adjustable stock but none in the country at the time so settled for the varmint. Bought some stock spacers to get pull length to my liking and also a tikka stainless picatinny rail from skipton gun room to get the night vision to fit . Photo of Berger 73 g group at 112 yards there’s four shots through the main group then did one to the side as wasn’t sure if I’d hit the target ie didn’t hear a dong just a whoosh into the back stop so moved over a bit to make sure I was still on target . Holes are a measured 1/4” . Plate thickness 5mm mild steel . Sako ammo also went through the plate but the Amax put a great dent in it . Had to upgrade to one of Tom’s targets to stop pass through s . You’ll needs the WR Mags if your going to hand load for the longer slippery bullets . Standard mag is ok for case overall length of 2.6”  . Cheers and enjoy.

[farmer_giles]

Thanks Richie, that's extremely helpful. Very nice primary group on the metal. I've not hand loaded before but I'm pretty sure I would enjoy it. The only potential problem being my tendency to be a bit obsessive and, as my wife would say, I might "disappear up my own arse". I like the idea of being able to drive the 73gr eld's though. Are they any good on foxes or just stab them like a knitting needle? I would also be interested in working out a hand load for the 53gr hornady vmax's to achieve better than factory-load accuracy. There seems to be a bewildering array of options for brass/primer/powder/bullet/seating depth, so I'm slightly anxious that I might simply create an expensive and time consuming way of making ammunition that's worse than factory loads, particularly if Sako's 55's will print 1/2" to start with. I'm not able to shoot much better than 1/4"@100y anyway.

By the way, did you get the 20" or 24" barrel? Article here suggests there's not a lot in it, so I was thinking the 20", particularly given the availability issue. 

https://www.80lowerjig.com/80-lower-blog/the-ar-15-picking-the-best-barrel-length-twist-rate/

cheers, Giles

[Richiew]

Hi Giles 

I went for the 20” barrel tikka varmint this comes as a one in eight twist so all ok upto th 73 grain bullets . Think some of the 24” barrels aren’t threaded and they might not have the faster twist needed. 20” is heavy enough even though I’m mostly shooting off primos trigger sticks . 73 g Eldms do expandnicely and do a very good job on foxy. Also the 52 grain Amax work well on fox usually see a small entry hole and no exit at all . I initially bought 100 sako 55 grain soft points these also work well on fox  and hares then used the cases to reload , think they’re on the sixth set of reloading now and still looking good . Got some lapua cases for when I’ve settled on the best load . Forster neck bushing dies and a micrometer seater die. Rcbs reloading kit from spud . Cci small rifle standard primers . Vihtavuori powders , n135 for the light bullets and now  n540 for the heavier ones as recommended from earlier posts. Case overall length 2.26” to fit standard mags or the wr mags to get the eldms in see photos in previous pages . I was going to buy lots of factory ammo of different types and weights then settle on a favourite but went straight to reloading the 52 g Amax and found an easy to replicate load , then had a play with 55 / 60 bergers then the 73s which are definitely my favourites. Can’t put up photos of the 55 grain sako on fox as they’re a bit messy . Hornady eleventh edition loading manual is very good with info for the eldms. 
cheers and enjoy 

[Richiew]

Found this info from this site . 

[Richiew]

Excluding the price for brass ( lapua £70 per 100 ) it works out at 48 pence per bullet  so comparing that against £39 for 20 rounds of federal withe the 77 grain smk at nearly £2 a bang you can soon recover the cost of the outlay of your reloading gear . 
cheers 

[Richiew]

Should be 48 p per round 

[farmer_giles]

Hi Richie, Yes I had spotted that very nice group. Thanks for lots of great info and data - hugely more helpful than the usual soup of baseless drivel out there. I've been browsing spud but have insufficient (no) loading experience to perform any meaningful equipment selection, although I've been hankering after an RCBS press since about 1985 when I first saw them in Gun Digest. Interesting you got some Lapua cases. I'd tagged them in the back of my mind as go-to quality brass. I'm obsessive about accuracy and cannot cope with a rifle that shoots less accurately than I can, so it's inevitable that I'll end up hand loading. The 73gr eldms sound a good choice. I found this chart interesting: 

https://www.80-lower.com/80-lower-blog/ar15-barrel-twist-rates-explained/

Most of my shooting is in areas where you don't want the bullets carrying on, so breakup is important. How do the eldms do on that front? 

[farmer_giles]

Yes, £1.50 a round saving that pays for the equipment fairly quickly. I'll ask your advice on a loading setup when the time comes. I'm going to start off with a couple of boxes of these to get my eye in:

https://www.shootingsportsuk.co.uk/rifle-accessories/ammunition/superformance-varmint-223-rem-53gr-v-max-box-of-20/

I like the BC of .29 on a 53gr bullet. 

I also know that I'll end up loading for the 73's... it's just inevitable really

[Richiew]

Eldms havnt been a problem with-ricochet s . Shot fox through the front bib and didn’t have an exit hole just a very soggy feeling carcass .federal do a round loaded with the 53grain v- max but that’s at the £30 for 20 .  Had a shot with a whine the other week using Berger 60 gr after shooting a rabbit then pass through and off into the nearby woods . Farmers been putting hardcore on the mud tracks lately. Below is the kit I started with had a few tweaks since then but basically it is all there, I only neck size the brass so some dry graphite lube is all that’s needed on the neck before putting it up into the sizing die   . Did lots of reading and you tubing then got as much info off the older lads in the club and gave it a go . Was never happy with club ppu ammo ::  4” group from an accuracy international 308 is not acceptable at 100 yards so reloading it was . Lots of info at accurateshooter . Com regarding loads and bullet combinations in lots of calibres too . Start loading to saami spec to get a basic copy of factory round then have a play with seating depth . Rock chucker  supreme kit . Forster dies make very coencentric straight rounds , one or two thou max runout . Give it a go as accuracy is addictive. Cheers   

[Richiew]

Hannams reloading list80269 .223 REM 73 GR ELD MATCH by hornady at £29-95 for a box of 20 . Might be worth a try .  

[Richiew]

HiGiles

://www.gmk.co.uk/ammunition/federal/vmax These should be good too . 

[farmer_giles]

6 minutes ago, Richiew said:

Hannams reloading list80269 .223 REM 73 GR ELD MATCH by hornady at £29-95 for a box of 20 . Might be worth a try .  

Ah ok that's interesting, I can't believe I didn't know they existed. Oh, and HOLY CRAP I'm glad I'm not shooting a .338 LM at £129.85 per 20 - £6.49 a shot!!! That needs to be 0.01 MOA at about 20 miles for that money. 

[Richiew]

Hi Giles 

from your web page 73 gr eldms but out of stock see if you can reserve some for the next delivery. Cheers 

[farmer_giles]

10 minutes ago, Richiew said:

HiGiles

://www.gmk.co.uk/ammunition/federal/vmax These should be good too . 

Yes, nice, the 53 gr is an interesting bullet

[farmer_giles]

Nice Hornady kit - was the Speer reloading manual useful or do you prefer the Hornady 11th you mentioned earlier? Difficult for books to keep up with the depth of data at the fringe of experimentation, which is where it's at. Gun Digest was all we had in the day, now it's real-time on the interweb. Although the BS to fact ratio gets in the way of valid progress. 

[Richiew]

Hi Giles 

speer book I gave away not much use to be honest . Hornady book and the Berger books are very informative but don’t always have our European powders so need to compare them to known powders . Berger book has a massive list of powders so you can compare similar powders . Henry krank has a powder comparison page but only for powders they sell . Both books have good info on the reloading process / steps to be followed . 53 grain hornady is pretty good as it’s not a flat base so easily presses into the case and should expand very quickly. Best book would be the one of the make of bullet your most likely to use , they can be very conservative tho . I am a full two grain s over max in 308 according to the Vihtavuori web page and still have no pressure signs but that’s just my rifle etc . Hornady book gives max at 23.6 gr in the 223 73 eldms I’m now at 24.8 with no problems. It seems a lot to do with bearing surface length of bullets and their shape . Finding bullets actually in stock can be a nightmare. Good luck

 

[farmer_giles]

Thanks Richie, I'm looking forward to this! 

[Richiew]

On left 73 gr eldm , on right 75 gr eldm , both at 1.894” case base to ogive  . Case overall length is 2.3315” and 2.4295” respectively 

[farmer_giles]

Nice - somehow the one on the left looks better balanced. How's the N540 working out? I see

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=7

says 25.5gr of N540 to drive the 73gr at 2949fps which is a smidge faster than the superperformance factory load pushes the same bullet, as much as you can trust the figures on the box...

[Richiew]

Now that’s good to know as hornady book stops at 23.6 and 2700 fps . 
I’ve loaded some 75 eldms at 24 g n540 . 
Also 73 eldms at 24 and 24.5 g n540.

lastly Berger 73s at 25 g n540 these were a slight crunch . Weather permitting I’ll try them tomorrow night for pressure signs then chrono on a sunny day . Will post results soon . Cheers 

[Richiew]

All the above powder and bullet combination s worked well with no pressure signs . Need them chronoed next . 

[farmer_giles]

OK that's good to know. I'm assuming Viht's are quoting max loads with a decent margin of error. 

[Richiew]

Vihtavuori info for n135 with a 60 grain Berger  was very hot at 25 grain even though max is 25.8 . 73 Berger max is 25.5 n540 was upto 25 with no problems , same with the 73 grain eldms. Max for 75 eldms is 25.8 and was ok at 24 grain s . Most of my good loads appear to work best when the powder is up the start of the bottle neck shoulder so just enough room to get bullet in with a little crunch or 100% case fill with bullet in place . 

[Richiew]

Btw 3 foxes last night with the 60 grain Berger longest at 144 yards all went straight down but no big exit hole like the elds can do . 
cheers