S&b 12x50x56 pm11 for F Class

[blaser308]

Have an option to buy a used s&b 12x50x56 for F Class with the Fine P4 moa Ret with 1/8 clicks  however scope is in 1st focal plane  i understand the preference for 2nd fp scopes for f class however with the fine P4 ret i doubt it will obscure the target for long range 800-1200y shooting even with 1st focal plane is there any other f class shooters shooting this scope with fine p4 in 1st focal plane ifso could you share your opinions with this scope and ret in 1st focal verses 2nd focal plane could you give any cons pros shooting f class with this scope in 1st focal plane Thanks.

 

[OSOK]

I think you've answered your own question in that SFP is the way to go ..... Ideally you need to be able to hold around the 'V' at 40x ish at 1000 yards. and whilst I can't say you won't be able to do that I feel it's very unlikely . S&B's website should give you the dot size but I remember a friends IOR Crusader which has a fine FFP ret centre dot and that covered about 4 inches at 1000 yards .... so too big !

OSOK

[pat]

Gents,

Just a heads up. The P4F-MPOA reticle is relatively new - that's not to say that the scope doesn't have it, just that S&B did offer the P4F FFP with 1/8MOA turrets, so it is not safe to assume that the ret is deffo P4F-MOA just because it has 1/8MOA turrets [but it could, just saying to double check ]

The P4F (non-MOA) ret is VERY fine - TOO fine for use as a long range varminting scope as you lose sight of the ret as the light fades (such a shame there isn't a 12-50x56-PMII/LP!). The ret drawing here https://www.schmidtundbender.de/downloads/category/225-p4f.html?download=980:p4f-12-50x56-pm-ii-1be shows the cross subtension as 0.02mrad (but then curiously says it covers 0.18cm @ 100m, so that's surely 0.018mrad). That places it at 1.8cm coverage at 1000m, 1.65cm (0.65") coverage at 1000yds. This would make a fine (pardon the pun!) target ret, and when paired with the 1/4cm clicks it's a real precision instrument when the light is good (though WHY they don't offer that with a DT windage turret baffles me, +/- 1.6mrad is not that much wind!). I digress.

The P4F-MOA ret is not quite so fine. The ret drawing here https://www.schmidtundbender.de/downloads/category/906-p4f-moa.html?download=981:p4f-moa-12-50x56-pm-ii shows the cross as 0.03mrad but then also 0.1MOA (0.029mrad) and 0.29cm@100m / 0.1"@100yds. This reticle will thus cover 1" at 1000yds. The extra fatness of the central cross, in addition to the solid outer stadia make it much more useful for long range varminting as the light fades.

Legend has it that F Class V-bulls are 0.5MOA. So the P4F-MOA ret will fit five times over into the V-Bull, and the P4F will fit 8 times over. I don't know if you need to be any finer than that for F Class. Usefully, both rets extend past the V-Bull (not like a floating dot that can get lost in there) so you will see the intersection of the cross and the perimeter of the V Bull.

As an aside, my gut feeling for circular stuff is a dioptric setup - a ret with a central circle (not a filled dot) which is just ever so slightly bigger than the black part of the V Bull, permitting a tiny bit of the white to show. The eye is good at picking up circular (annular) irregularity / axial misalignment (also along the vernier principle). Such a ret would likely be a one-trick-pony though - great for F Class, perhaps slightly less adept at other disciplines. In any event, assuming your ability to hold it steady enough, I would imagine you could align to microradian precision with such a ret (though atmospheric distortion will be your nemesis!).

 

Cheers,

Pat.

[blaser308]

Thank you Pat for your informative reply.

[ds1]

Pat, the S&B pm2 FFP 5-45x56  with LRR reticle is going to give you the closet to what you describe for a varminting scope ( illumination, turret adjustments etc) the LRR is very usable for a fine subtending reticle ( 0.16cm / 100m centre dot) and has daylight visible illumination settings.

OP, sorry for off-topic reply.