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Al, I'm confused as to what's guiding your thinking on the weight requirement?   

You mentioned that you reduced the EC's weight by 40% (presumably the maker thought 100% was the right weight?!)   and, in greater contrast,  the .22 pics show things the size of flower pots wrapped in lead.    Is everyone designing these things based on strongly held feelings in their water, or is there decent data?  What's the right weight?

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4 hours ago, Big Al said:

The muzzle brake needs to stay in the orientation its currently in to work properly, you dont want gases exiting downwards or it will cover you in dust and also try to lift the muzzle of the ground when shooting prone. Thats the reason there is a tuner fitted behind it. Also the muzzle brake is too heavy and has no means of making small accurate and repeatable movements which a good tuner needs to be able to do.

I did use a pepper pot muzzle brake as a tuner once, that worked but it had the correct thread and the nylon tipped set screws and fine increments so it was very much a tuner with a brake incorporated.

 

Yes I thought that would be the case , works in principle but not practice to a fine enough degree. 

Is there one on the market that will allow a moderator without machining the barrel eg clamp on.

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In Bill Calfee's book (The art of rimfire accuracy) he explains how he calculates the tuner weight and how much it should protrude past the barrel - He's very much a practical guy but does explain what he does and why he does it.

I find his writing style very irritating but it does contain a lot of information if you're interested in rimfire accuracy. . The results obtained by his rimfire rifles in BR competitions are amazing. 

 

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2 hours ago, brown dog said:

Al, I'm confused as to what's guiding your thinking on the weight requirement?   

You mentioned that you reduced the EC's weight by 40% (presumably the maker thought 100% was the right weight?!)   and, in greater contrast,  the .22 pics show things the size of flower pots wrapped in lead.    Is everyone designing these things based on strongly held feelings in their water, or is there decent data?  What's the right weight?

I can't speak for rimfire tuners BD as I have no experience of them although its clear they are much bigger/heavier than CF tuners.

I can only imagine the harmonic waves from a puny .22LR round in often a very stiff benchrest barrel is a lot duller (cant think of a better word) and so needs a more aggressive approach to changing/tuning those waves, the more weight you use the more aggressive your tuning becomes. Certainly when it comes to CF tuners it takes much less weight and movement to make a difference and the more I have tested the lighter mine have became and with better results.

What guides my thinking on CF tuners is the results of my own testing.

 

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11 minutes ago, Mark II said:

Is there one on the market that will allow a moderator without machining the barrel eg clamp on.

Not that Ive seen.

 

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17 minutes ago, Mark II said:

 

Is there one on the market that will allow a moderator without machining the barrel eg clamp on.

This is the only one I've seen - I made this collet clamp to use a tuner and a moderator as I didn't want to jump straight in and screwcut my shiny new lilja match barrel. This is on a rimfire, not sure I would want a clamp on one on a centrefire.

hf2banZm.png?19KozCA8l.png?5

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8 hours ago, 1066 said:

This is the only one I've seen - I made this collet clamp to use a tuner and a moderator as I didn't want to jump straight in and screwcut my shiny new lilja match barrel. This is on a rimfire, not sure I would want a clamp on one on a centrefire.

hf2banZm.png?19KozCA8l.png?5

Nice work was it successfully? 

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9 hours ago, Big Al said:

 

I can only imagine the harmonic waves from a puny .22LR round in often a very stiff benchrest barrel is a lot duller (cant think of a better word) and so needs a more aggressive approach to changing/tuning those waves, the more weight you use the more aggressive your tuning becomes. Certainly when it comes to CF tuners it takes much less weight and movement to make a difference and the more I have tested the lighter mine have became and with better results.

Makes sense 👍

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9 hours ago, 1066 said:

This is the only one I've seen - I made this collet clamp to use a tuner and a moderator as I didn't want to jump straight in and screwcut my shiny new lilja match barrel. This is on a rimfire, not sure I would want a clamp on one on a centrefire.

 

 

My mind's eye is visualising a moveable  sleeve weight on the moderator body as a .22 option(?) Perhaps a sort of choke tube slipped on and made to grip, with a threaded weight around it (?)

Another option would be a peel washer between mod and muzzle?

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3 hours ago, brown dog said:

 

My mind's eye is visualising a moveable  sleeve weight on the moderator body as a .22 option(?) Perhaps a sort of choke tube slipped on and made to grip, with a threaded weight around it (?)

Another option would be a peel washer between mod and muzzle?

I can't see why something simple wouldn't work. The Parker Hale .22 mods are quite slim and sturdy. You really need some fixed reference point and a means of making small repeatable adjustments.

IjJbTBSl.png

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Something simple like one or more of these might do the trick, just need a vernier to measure the distance so a bit more time consuming 

71GrYyHx7uL._AC_SL1069_.jpg

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1 hour ago, Mark II said:

Something simple like one or more of these might do the trick, just need a vernier to measure the distance so a bit more time consuming 

71GrYyHx7uL._AC_SL1069_.jpg

I suspect that'd be fine. Vernier? Just a mark and by eye - close enough for government work 😉

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8 minutes ago, brown dog said:

I suspect that'd be fine. Vernier? Just a mark and by eye - close enough for government work 😉

I was being posh😀

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