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Gavhowe

New powder scales, what to buy?

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Looking at buying a new set of scales and not sure which to get. Using a set of gem pro 250’s at the minute with a powder thrower and tricker. Are the charge masters etc reliable or would you go beam and auto trickle? 

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I have tried a few auto tricklers, I use one just as a thrower these days and trickle to weight with the Target Master and beam scale, excellent piece of kit.

Message 1066 (he makes them) on here for more info.

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Have to say I use an acculab scale and throw light and trickle up 

 

I can charge 100 cases in a little over an hour if I put my mind to it 

 

no variation - accuracy to two dp

 

Ive seen good things with the Autotrickle system but it’s a 700 quid hit once you buy the scales and trickler

 

Im afraid my old acculab scales haven’t the software to run the auto trickler otherwise I’d go this route 

 

 

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I use an RCBS Chargemaster Lite and I have not had any problems.

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+1 RCBS chargemaster Lite with shooting shed thingy for overthrows. I also double-check on a small electronic balance. For the Imperial, I had only two overthrows and two charges out on electronic balance.+/- 0.1gn.

 I use Lyman check weights to make sure they are both calibrated. Its electronic scale tends to drift.  It was off amazon I did see on youtube that the chargemaster works better 40gn and above.

I am hoping for father Xmas to bring me a https://ceproducts.shop/collections/full-reloading-kit

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Unless your making lots of precision rounds I can't see the reason to put so much money into auto tricklers.  Trickling automatically isn't 'better'  it's just automated.  I use a lab scale and RCBS manual trickler.  Throw under weight with a Lyman 55 powder thrower,  trickle up.  It took me less than an hour to process 50 rounds of 6.5CM this afternoon - to two decimal places in grains.  I do resort to tweezers when fine tuning large grain powders like N570.  I've never cut a kernel of powder in two (honest).

For plinking carbine loads I just throw a charge from the trusty Lyman 55 - it's good enough, quick and easy and doesn't require 'over the top' technology

I'm sure if I was doing thousands of precision rounds like a F T/R competition shooter I'd invest in a bit of automation.

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On 9/14/2020 at 4:51 PM, 1066 said:

I'm sure this little video will put your mind at rest.

 

I suspect this test is unfair.   I would like to see stability at a setting away from zero.  No one needs to load 3 kernels of powder.   It's bad practice to use scales at the extreme limits either way.  I took advice from a metrologist - he recommended using a pan that places the scale somewhere in mid-range when taking into account the tare vs gross weight.   I use a stainless steel measure that weighs about 90 grams on a 200 gram FSD scale.   I get very little drift and return to zero every time.

And by the way,  mechanical balance beams will also drift with temperature as the beam expands or contracts in varying ambient temperature.   This is why lab scales were in glass cases and temperature stabilised environments.

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On 9/14/2020 at 9:34 AM, Gavhowe said:

Looking at buying a new set of scales and not sure which to get. Using a set of gem pro 250’s at the minute with a powder thrower and tricker. Are the charge masters etc reliable or would you go beam and auto trickle? 

Just dont buy Pact if they are still around mine have been home to the factory twice and failed again

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Cheers for all the input. 
 

To be fair, I’ve always got on well with the gem pro’s, just throwing half a grain less and trickling up, and as mentioned, can soon rattle through them if you put your mind to it. The other day they must have thrown a right wobbler and monumentally cocked up some load data I was doing on a new rifle. I carried on with the loads as I wanted to fire form the brass anyway, but was ready for throwing them in the bin, hence the post looking for something new. 

loaded 5 using the same method Yesterday and Fired them with no issues at all. 
 

Have seen some really good reviews on the fx120i scales with auto Trickler but it’s a big outlay for the amount I shoot, but by the time I buy a new beam scale and target master, I’m bilberry half way there so I might just use my check weight a lot more often for the time being, and look to buy a set of scales first, then maybe add to it in the future. 

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Here's mine, ex analytical lab, weighs in grams to 3 decimal places, cost £105 with a years warranty.

Pete

mettler.jpg

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I gather that many benchrest shooters still prefer to measure their charges by volume, using a Harrell’s measure or similar, rather than weighing each charge.

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An Autotrickler/thrower V3 is expensive, but very hard to beat.  It throws to within a kernel of power in about 15 secs.  The scale is accurate +/- .02grs 

It is overkill if you're only loading 40-50 rounds in a sitting.  But if you're loading for a match (200-300 rds), they are worth their weight in gold.

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Having used most systems out there; Balance beam, GemPro250, Target Master with Balance beam, Chargemaster Lite and now the FX120-i with Autotrickler & Autothrow, I’ll add my two pennies worth.

Balance beam was fairly accurate but very slow and subject to drafts.

GemPro250 is very accurate and convenient. You can mitigate drift using a wind guard and line conditioner to keep current stable. But it’s slow to throw and trickle up.

Target Master & Balance beam whilst fairly accurate posed the same problems with being slow to settle down. As I don’t have a permanent reloading bench, it was time consuming to setup each time, often taking as much time setting it up as actually time spent on reloading.

Chargemaster Lite was a great tool. In my own tests I published here a while back, I found it was exceptionally accurate when you know the quirks (under throw charge, remove pan and settle, replace pan and trickle up) often obtaining accuracy to 0.02gn and no worse than 0.04gn. That’s within 2-4 kernels of N140. When used in above method, I experienced no discernible drift, but did use a line conditioner which helps. However, the process of throwing the charge, removing pan then replacing before trickling up also took too long. It was less time than Beam scale, GemPro or Target Master, but still took too much faffing and time of loading 100-200 rounds in a go...for me anyway.

So upgrading to the FX120-i with Autotrickler/Autothrow combo was worth it to me. setting up each time is very quick, though I normally just have the scale on to warm up for at least an hour before loading. The accuracy is incredible as is the repeatability. I often find myself obsessing over a single kernel. I don’t need to but it’s my own OCD. The scale has a conditioner so doesn’t drift much other than when the room gets warm and the metal plate is in the sun. The warmth can drift is a bit...but only about 0.02gn, or two kernels of N140. So nothing major. But for this reason I choose to load on overcast days or do it in the evening.

For me, high volume and batch loading, the upgrade to the FX120-i was worth the money. It’s the time I lost in waiting for all the other methods to settle or time taken to setup, was worth the cost outlay.

Good luck!

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