303 cast bullets

[Kipper]

I want to start reloading for my smle with cast bullets but been told I need to get a expander die for the mouth.

I can't find one for love nor money.

What is everyone else using to flare the case mouth

[Popsbengo]

Lee universal expander

https://www.brownells.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-CASE-EXPANDING-DIE-LEE-PRECISION-100032227

[Kipper]

How does that work popsbengo.. juat test and adjust the depth till acquired size 

[Popsbengo]

2 hours ago, Kipper said:

How does that work popsbengo.. juat test and adjust the depth till acquired size 

yep

[terryh]

Kipper,

The other die that is designed around cast bullets is the Lyman M die, this bells the mouth as per the Lee but also expands the whole fo the neck to give a more gentle grip on a cast bullet.

With jacketed bullets the amount of grip that is sometimes found by using a FL sizing die does not really matter re deforming the bullets - you just have a lot of tension. This can be too much for a cast bullet, hence the M die sizing the whole of the neck.

If you are going to use a gas check and hard cast then this might not be an issue - just something to have in the back of your mind if you have an accuracy problems.

T

[terryh]

..... or get something turned up from a 5/8 UNF bolt to go into a standard die body perhaps?

Custom 457/460 on left, ‘31’ M on the right -which you are welcome to.

T

 

[dodgyrog]

14 hours ago, terryh said:

Kipper,

The other die that is designed around cast bullets is the Lyman M die, this bells the mouth as per the Lee but also expands the whole fo the neck to give a more gentle grip on a cast bullet.

With jacketed bullets the amount of grip that is sometimes found by using a FL sizing die does not really matter re deforming the bullets - you just have a lot of tension. This can be too much for a cast bullet, hence the M die sizing the whole of the neck.

If you are going to use a gas check and hard cast then this might not be an issue - just something to have in the back of your mind if you have an accuracy problems.

T

This is the ONLY die I would recommend to expand the case mouth to the right size. Use one for a 303 not a 308 as the boolit should be around .316" diameter and tou do not want it swaged down when seating in the case.

[Kipper]

21 hours ago, terryh said:

..... or get something turned up from a 5/8 UNF bolt to go into a standard die body perhaps?

Custom 457/460 on left, ‘31’ M on the right -which you are welcome to.

T

 

How did you do that??? 

I intend to use hard cast with gas check supplied from shellhouse. Ive never loaded anything but jacketed but have a 44mag coming so need to learn and since my smle is a 1918 I figured why not shoot as it was intended to be pre mk7 ammo. 

[terryh]

Kipper

loading cast GC bullets should not be an issue in the 303, are you buying the bullets - are you going to cast them yourself at any point?

The Lyman cast bullet manual has a page for the 303, Accurate 5744 (now sold as a Lovex  DO60 powder) is a good powder made specifically for use in loose filled loads. My guess is your cast bullet will be between 180-200g so you should be able to comfortably attain 1800 -1900 FPS - more than enough.

Loading the 44mag might be a little different, but not much.

T

[Kipper]

I plan on just buying them,  I have little free time to reload as it is without learning how to cast them.. there resonable inexpensive from shellhouse for 500 and come gas checked etc.

Ill look out for that powder, so far I've been only told unique which works in the 44 also

[Andrew]

3 hours ago, Kipper said:

I plan on just buying them,  I have little free time to reload as it is without learning how to cast them.. there resonable inexpensive from shellhouse for 500 and come gas checked etc.

Ill look out for that powder, so far I've been only told unique which works in the 44 also

What diameter bullet are you planning on using, and for what rifle? I have fired, literally, thousands of cast bullets from dozens 303's (From Martini's to No4MkII) over the last 4 decades so I have some experience with them. First hint: Get all the copper out of the barrel before you even start.~Andrew

[Kipper]

I havent slugged the barrel yet, its a smle mk3*.. shellhouse have a 165gr hard cast GC listed on there website and its main use will be 200yards.. i havent really went to town on the barrel as I had 80 odd jackets rounds sitting to use up before I move onto cast.

I havent collected the win 94 yet so havent done anything with it. 

 

[Andrew]

The more jacketed rounds you put down the barrel, the more work it will be to rid the barrel of the jacket fouling which will cause leading and ruin accuracy. I don't know what your expectations are for accuracy but a No1 MkIII with a well fit cast bullet and loaded well will deliver (from a good rifle) minute of shooter error. "slugging the bore" of a five groove barrel can be difficult and ultimately, of less value than doing a chamber cast to include the throat diameter. If you order your bullets .001 - 0015"  under throat diameter you can forget the groove diameter of the barrel. My 1950's  No4MkII's have .310 groove diameters but shoot a .314" bullet because the throat is .315". IF you are offered a two diameter bullet (set of driving bands at the base, longish nose on the front) and a "Loverine" type with a short nose and a long series of driving bands the length of the bullet, choose the latter. An undersized nose will do nothing for accuracy. Better to have a longer series of driving bands than the opposite and an undersized nose.

Again, it all boils down to your expectations. If you mostly want to make the rifle go bang, anything will do. If you want to get serious about accuracy then, eventually, you will need to think about casting your own -which is a whole study in itself. I spent many days shooting my Lee's with cast bullets for fun and competition. I hope you have as much fun as I have had.~Andrew

[Kipper]

I don't expect accuracy to be fantastic but I don't what to just hope & pray either.. would I be better slugging the bore then and using that measurement?

[Andrew]

Generically sized cast bullets are either great, because they offer the diameter you want, or they suck because they stick to 'standard' sizes like .309" for 30 cal, or .311" for 303 and the like.  I have a P-14 with a .317" groove diameter. You can imagine the lack of accuracy if I even shot a .312" through it .If you are able to measure a five groove slug, then that would be a good place to start as an absolute minimum diameter with light loads.~Andrew

[Kipper]

I'm still trying to locate a slug, we have loads off black powder guys in 1 off the clubs but it's still closed yet.

Considered asking shellhouse to sell me a few off each to slug the 303 and the 44 and be cheeky

[alpha1]

On 9/3/2020 at 7:42 AM, Kipper said:

I havent slugged the barrel yet, its a smle mk3*.. shellhouse have a 165gr hard cast GC listed on there website and its main use will be 200yards.. i havent really went to town on the barrel as I had 80 odd jackets rounds sitting to use up before I move onto cast.

I havent collected the win 94 yet so havent done anything with it. 

 

If you are serious about going down the cast bullet route you do not want hard cast bullets.

Forget the Lee expander get a Lyman Mdie and buy a copy of the Lyman cast bullet manual.

[Kipper]

2 hours ago, alpha1 said:

If you are serious about going down the cast bullet route you do not want hard cast bullets.

Forget the Lee expander get a Lyman Mdie and buy a copy of the Lyman cast bullet manual.

I bought a lyman M die today off Terryh.

What do you recommend,  I wont be casting my own- simply don't habe the time as nice as it would be,  maybe in the future 

[Andrew]

5 hours ago, alpha1 said:

If you are serious about going down the cast bullet route you do not want hard cast bullets.

Forget the Lee expander get a Lyman Mdie and buy a copy of the Lyman cast bullet manual.

What is the definition of serious? I've got over 100 molds and 4 lubricator/sizers . I have at least 2 dozen rifles I shoot nothing but cast bullets through.  I have been shooting cast bullets for 45 years and did extensive experimentation with high velocity cast bullets from bottle necked cartidges for a couple of decades. I have competed in Cast Bullet Association cast bullet bench rest comps and won a few. I shoot very hard bullets most of the time and use a Lee Universal expander. I seldom use the Lyman handbook for load data. 

..And yet I consider myself a serious cast bullet shooter.~Andrew

[Kipper]

12 hours ago, Andrew said:

What is the definition of serious? I've got over 100 molds and 4 lubricator/sizers . I have at least 2 dozen rifles I shoot nothing but cast bullets through.  I have been shooting cast bullets for 45 years and did extensive experimentation with high velocity cast bullets from bottle necked cartidges for a couple of decades. I have competed in Cast Bullet Association cast bullet bench rest comps and won a few. I shoot very hard bullets most of the time and use a Lee Universal expander. I seldom use the Lyman handbook for load data. 

..And yet I consider myself a serious cast bullet shooter.~Andrew

First steep now that I'm finished all the jacketed rounds is to purge the barrel off copper.

Then I need to slug it or the bore

I was going to ask you too call for a chat Andrew to steal your experience but I see your state side lol

[alpha1]

Dont use hard cast bullets.

[Kipper]

On 9/6/2020 at 12:06 AM, alpha1 said:

Dont use hard cast bullets.

Why???? 

My mum said not to put my hand in the fire so I did to see why lol..

Can you explain for a newbie to cast bulets like myself and others that may read this Alpha1

[Andrew]

I'd like that info too.~Andrew

[terryh]

On 9/6/2020 at 12:06 AM, alpha1 said:

Don't use hard cast bullets.

??????????? really 🤨

[terryh]

Concur, but the inference was no hard/hardened cast bullets - period 😉