How important is the Brass?

[martin_b]

Ive been firing  low end factory .223 Ammo from Magtech PPU GGG etc and Ive saved the cases. 

Im now ready to move DIY ammo but should I use the saved cases or buy some nice new shiny big name ones?

[Gandy]

Hard to answer depending on what you want to achieve when you shoot. I think you will get similar or slightly improved results from the brass from when it was factory loaded. If you want to improve results further brass prep will be involved. 
 

if you want to do less brass prep but want the best accuracy shiney new brass will be needed. 
 

I use shiney new brass in a accurate rifle used to compete and cheap brass in a hunting rifle where ranges are shorter and  don’t need things to be perfect. 
 

Hope this helps. 

[Popsbengo]

16 minutes ago, martin_b said:

Ive been firing  low end factory .223 Ammo from Magtech PPU GGG etc and Ive saved the cases. 

Im now ready to move DIY ammo but should I use the saved cases or buy some nice new shiny big name ones?

If this is your first reloading experience then use what you have but batch them into the same head stamp.  Clean and full-length size which will de-cap also. Measure the cases for length, they should all be pretty close to a nominal size that's less than the maximum allowed (this is important).  Check the necks are clean, chamfered inside and a touch outside.

I'm not going to say anything further about reloading - read, read and read again the advice and instructions.  Different headstamp brass will have different volumes so don't assume one load will work in all.

[martin_b]

Thanks guy's,  I have reloaded in the past not many about 50, but they all went bang and went in the general direction in which they were aimed.  however this is part of the problem as Ive also been given some empty cases and Ive got no idea which have been fired X1 x2 x3... etc..  So after checking the price of new brass, I think I'll start off with 100 new PPU cases, bin all the old cases and then I have a known basline I can start from.

 

c

[Gandy]

Good shout. 

[Popsbengo]

9 minutes ago, martin_b said:

Thanks guy's,  I have reloaded in the past not many about 50, but they all went bang and went in the general direction in which they were aimed.  however this is part of the problem as Ive also been given some empty cases and Ive got no idea which have been fired X1 x2 x3... etc..  So after checking the price of new brass, I think I'll start off with 100 new PPU cases, bin all the old cases and then I have a known basline I can start from.

 

c

good idea - you know where you're at that way

[KABOOM]

11 minutes ago, martin_b said:

Thanks guy's,  I have reloaded in the past not many about 50, but they all went bang and went in the general direction in which they were aimed.  however this is part of the problem as Ive also been given some empty cases and Ive got no idea which have been fired X1 x2 x3... etc..  So after checking the price of new brass, I think I'll start off with 100 new PPU cases, bin all the old cases and then I have a known basline I can start from.

 

c

My solution to the unknown number of firings is brass bucket and sold to a recycler as  scrap. I am in full agreement with new brass. other members made a few points I was going to so I wont be verbose. Best wishes for good loading and shooting.

[cooter]

I have around 300 many times fired PPU, and recently decided to neck turn them all (lockdown boredom). It made a significant difference to the group size, so probably worth saving a few of the factory cases you already have, even if it's only to try case prep ideas out.

I used fired cases to learn how to develop loads and, as above, bought decent new cases for target work but still used/use the old stuff for field work. Nothing worse than spending a few hours on prep work on new cases only to watch them sail off into the long grass.

 

[snaggletooth]

Consistency plays big part in reloading, so if you've mixture of brass that has had multiple firings, I'd bin it for some new brass or if you're on a budget, at least a batch of once fired brass with the same head stamp.

[martin_b]

I have thrown away my old mixed brass and ordered 100 new cases.  Ill work with these.

cheers

Martin

[martin_b]

OK a suplementory Brass question.. Ive been given a fair amount of 6.5CM Brass with an uncertain history ( maybe used once twice or 3 times).  its mainly Hornady,Norma, and S&B.  As I sse also see spud now does case annealing is it worth getting them Annealed and reloading them, or is one brand of Brass worth doing over the others.

[Catch-22]

Definitely one brand, ideally from the same lot (though this second point is more valid for competition shooting).

Different brands will have different internal case capacities, thus giving you varying levels of pressure/velocity and consequently consistency.

Different brands of brass also have different metallurgical makeups, so they will become work hardened at different rates, all of which affects consistent neck tension. Annealing definitely helps mitigate the work hardening but it’ll still be inconsistent when using different brands of brass

Lapua is arguably the best brass, quickly followed by Norma. Hornady is usually soft. S&B is generally a bit ‘thicker’ and so has lower internal capacity.

[Popsbengo]

49 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

Definitely one brand, ideally from the same lot (though this second point is more valid for competition shooting).

Different brands will have different internal case capacities, thus giving you varying levels of pressure/velocity and consequently consistency.

Different brands of brass also have different metallurgical makeups, so they will become work hardened at different rates, all of which affects consistent neck tension. Annealing definitely helps mitigate the work hardening but it’ll still be inconsistent when using different brands of brass

Lapua is arguably the best brass, quickly followed by Norma. Hornady is usually soft. S&B is generally a bit ‘thicker’ and so has lower internal capacity.

what he says - 100% agree.   Don't mix brass, it'll confuse any results you get.

[terryh]

As per other comments, don’t mix brass makes,

think of the volume inside the case as the same as the cc of an engine - different cc = different performance. And along the same thought process brass from the same make and batch = blue printing an engine, you get just a little bit more performance 

T

[Big Al]

Quality brass for most mainstream calibers isn't really that expensive in my opinion and starting with fresh high quality brass saves so many headaches.

[martin_b]

Norma Creedmoor Brass seems to be £178 for 100, if I shoot 20 to 30 in an hour that’s a fair few beer tokens.  For competition or precision shooing I fully understand what you say, but when all I’m trying to do is let off a bit of steam and not hit the electronics, “free” brass does have its advantages 🙂

[Catch-22]

As I said before, Lapua brass is the best.

Unless you load to max pressure, you’ll get 20x reloads off each price of brass (especially if annealing)  before it gets scrapped.

Here for £109 per 100

https://www.cdsgltd.co.uk/lapua-brass-65creed-100.html

 

[Big Al]

5 hours ago, martin_b said:

Norma Creedmoor Brass seems to be £178 for 100, if I shoot 20 to 30 in an hour that’s a fair few beer tokens.  For competition or precision shooing I fully understand what you say, but when all I’m trying to do is let off a bit of steam and not hit the electronics, “free” brass does have its advantages 🙂

Im thinking Lapua, as Catch points out if you get 20 firings then its 5p a firing on the brass, a primer costs that much.

I get what your saying about letting off steam but when your reloading its amazing how much steam gets created when your not hitting what you want and you cant work out why. Decent brass is a good investment but unless the rest of the reloading is on par it wont guarantee results.

[martin_b]

9 hours ago, Catch-22 said:

As I said before, Lapua brass is the best.

Unless you load to max pressure, you’ll get 20x reloads off each price of brass (especially if annealing)  before it gets scrapped.

Here for £109 per 100

https://www.cdsgltd.co.uk/lapua-brass-65creed-100.html

 

Thanks for this, I may well invest in some.  

 

[KABOOM]

On 7/23/2020 at 11:14 AM, martin_b said:

Norma Creedmoor Brass seems to be £178 for 100, if I shoot 20 to 30 in an hour that’s a fair few beer tokens.  For competition or precision shooing I fully understand what you say, but when all I’m trying to do is let off a bit of steam and not hit the electronics, “free” brass does have its advantages 🙂

While cost is a factor indeed unknown brass is not the way. Why ask for trouble use brass that you know for sure the number of firings

and keep notes on usage. Safe reliable accurate ammo is the goal, not the potential loss of things you may want ( eyes, fingers ect).

[martin_b]

So an anealing system should be high on my Christmas list?

Thanks

[Catch-22]

Personally I think you can easily go 2-3x firings of the brass before you ‘need’ to anneal. It’s really only at that point the brass is beginning to harden to a point that annealing will really help. So if you had 200x pieces of brass and you shoot 100x in an afternoon, then you could get roughly 6 shoots in before you really need an annealer. So not urgent I’d say.

But once you have one, it’s easy enough (and probably helpful) to anneal brass each time it’s used.

I have one of Lubo’s machines (goes by the name of ‘Raptor Calls’) and it’s great value for money. Just reach out to him via PM and he’s a gent to deal with.

 

[martin_b]

Thanks,

As it happens some guy called I. Revenue seems to be after all my money so before I pay him I’ve bought myself an early Xmas present.

PS  and dont get me started on his mate H.M.R.C

[VarmLR]

Be VERY careful with smaller cases like 223 that if changing brass you start from scratch and work up new load data.  There is quite a variation in BOTH brass alloy malleability and internal case volume in 223, at least from my own studies.  I recently had to drop one load a full grain due to differences in internal H2O volume due to different brass thickness between my outgoing brass and new brass of a different make.

 

I've tried all sorts from Hornady, PPU, SAKO, Lapua, and several others but by far the best in terms of consistency and max nr reloads was Lapua.  WELL worth the extra.

[martin_b]

thanks,.. I do mesure the internal case volume and put that into quickload. Also with the .223's im very conservative with my reloads , my M55 has its 1 in 12 origonal barrel, so im only loading for a 300m max distance.