redding Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) Been reloading a long time and never seen this before Just resized some freshly annealed .308 brass with a new Redding Type S Bushing Die with a bushing to size the neck back by 2 thou, I have never used a Bushing Die before by the way I used One shot lube as I have been for years. As you can see the shoulders are rounded, never seen this before and as you can imagine they will not chamber I am stumped, have I set the die up wrong or what, additionally there seems to be very little neck tension. Any help would be appreciated. Edited June 14, 2020 by redding Added new pic, proper case on right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 What size bushing? Are these cases out of your die or after you've tried seating a bullet? This looks like the neck has been pushed back which could be over annealed brass - too soft. If this is the case the brass is probably scrap though you maybe able to work harden it by resizing a few times. The lack of neck tension implies an over annealed case too. Can you stand them next to a good case so we can see the amount of distortion please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redding Posted June 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 The bushing is .334, the cases are out of the die, i did seat 5 bullets before i noticed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 It looks to me like the neck has squashed back due to the brass being too soft and dragging on the bush during sizing. There's nothing special about bushing dies beyond being able to adjust the neck tension more precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Have you measured the overall length of both cases, it definitely looks as though the rounded shouldered one has been pushed back. Agree with PB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Bushing is in contact with the top of the neck / shoulder pushing it downwards and rounding off the shoulder suggest you look at the instructions with the die and set it as per that then re start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Agree with pops n ronin , do you normally anneal your brass or was this a new step in your prep ? Try sizing an un anneal case and compare ? It could be either or both. Atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redding Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Not normally anneal, had it done by someone else. Just prepped 5 more this morning and they are perfect. One thing I dont get is that Redding say to turn S type die down to make firm contact with shellholder, yet others say back out 1/4 turn. Others say remove expander ball, others say leave it in, who do you listen to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Believe the Redding instructions. Fit the bush with the numbers facing down. Screw the de-capper so there's about 1/16" to 1/8" below the face of the die. Use the button or not, that's a choice. Screw the top down to just touching the bush and back off 1/16 of a turn. Lock it off. You should just hear the bush rattle if you shake the die. Screw the die to make firm contact at the top of the stroke against the shell holder. Good to go. You can adjust the die out a touch to reduce the amount of resizing and to control the knock-back of the shoulders. I use Redding's competition shell holders as it makes life easy, consistent and repeatable. Annealing is often buggered up and easily done; I'm not saying your's is but rather making an observation based on experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 22 hours ago, Popsbengo said: What size bushing? Are these cases out of your die or after you've tried seating a bullet? This looks like the neck has been pushed back which could be over annealed brass - too soft. If this is the case the brass is probably scrap though you maybe able to work harden it by resizing a few times. The lack of neck tension implies an over annealed case too. Can you stand them next to a good case so we can see the amount of distortion please? Agreed.~Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 Your type S wont have expanding ball as im sure your aware . As pops and the instruction say u want to hear the tiniest rattle of that bush When its locked off ! You should get really great cases sized with runout less than 3 thou from experience. When you prepped the 5 more had you changed anything? Or used UN-anneal cases? But good that they are perfect now . I do like fixing problems lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 2 hours ago, gunner said: Your type S wont have expanding ball as im sure your aware . My Type S die was supplied with a button Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 That a fl type S? I use nk type S and seperate fl body die by forster , assumed he was using the same nk type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephentri Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Redding Type s dies both full length and neck size come with a expander, it's the Redding competition die set that has no expander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redding Posted June 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Thanks for all the responses, its sizing ok now, haven't a clue what happened before. Strange thing though, just for the exercise I sized a couple of cases with & without the expander ball. The bushing is 0.334, cases sized with ball in place measure 0.334. Cases sized without expander ball measure 0.333, how can that be when the bushing is 0.334! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 40 minutes ago, redding said: Thanks for all the responses, its sizing ok now, haven't a clue what happened before. Strange thing though, just for the exercise I sized a couple of cases with & without the expander ball. The bushing is 0.334, cases sized with ball in place measure 0.334. Cases sized without expander ball measure 0.333, how can that be when the bushing is 0.334! The bushing has a very slight taper, is it the right way around ? I believe Redding bushings are numbers down and Wison bushings are numbers up. The bush has a tolerance of 0.0005" so it may be that the button puts a tiny extra 'spring' in the brass. Not entirely sure, just an educated guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redding Posted June 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Hi Bushing inserted with numbers facing down and I backed off the decapping rod a tad to allow it to self centre. 11 minutes ago, Popsbengo said: The bushing has a very slight taper, is it the right way around ? I believe Redding bushings are numbers down and Wison bushings are numbers up. The bush has a tolerance of 0.0005" so it may be that the button puts a tiny extra 'spring' in the brass. Not entirely sure, just an educated guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 As long as the process you use is consistent, all's well. I wouldn't get hung up on ±0.001" as long as it's always ±0.001" reliably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redding Posted June 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Popsbengo said: As long as the process you use is consistent, all's well. I wouldn't get hung up on ±0.001" as long as it's always ±0.001" reliably Cheers, Bushing Die is all new to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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