.44 mag advice

[Popsbengo]

28 minutes ago, Kipper said:

I wont be casting my own, I dont have time for that or knowledge for that. I didnt realise reloading pistol rounds was so different from rifle round, I already knew I would have to expand the case mouth etc but I assumed factory bullets would already have lube coated on them.

factory bullets usually do.  It's the blue/red gunk in the annular rings.  If you cast your own then there are various ways of lubing.  There are exceptions, I lubed the factory made soft lead bullets for my .357 Westlake Alphaproj (which I hated).  Lee Alox is good stuff, if a bit messy.

Andrew's cooking foil idea is a good tip - never thought of that but like all ideas, blindingly obvious when pointed out!

[Kipper]

The best ideas are always the simplest 

[KABOOM]

11 hours ago, Bangbangman said:

Commercially available cast bullets will usually be lubed already.

 

There are some other differences compared to loading jacketed bullets, eg the need to slightly Bell the case mouth and, in some cases, expand it too. Crimp also important in revolvers and tube-fed rifles

 

I'd do a bit more reading around the subject; there seem to be gaps in your knowledge and you can't safely rely on a forum to find and fill them. 

 

The Lyman cast bullet handbook is a good starting point.

 

 

 

 

 

By definition belling expands the case mouth the idea being just enough so adjust up slow!. Other than that total agreement on printed data

in hand! Its hard not knowing the knowledge level of a forum user and guessing about whats known, on the shelf for purchase or just the odd thought. One added thought on belling, just enough that the base enters the case square not off center quit right there. seat first then roll crimp not a dual action. Crimp on the cannelure. Best wishes for good shooting. I know the die maker say dual crimp/seat possible but imo you will wreck less brass in two stages of work instead of just crimp/seat at the same time.

[Andrew]

I agree to all of the above with a small exception: When you seat and crimp in the same action, the bullet is still moving as your crimp is being applied. Old time pistol shooters considered that a source of inconsistency. It was beaten into me at a young age to do it in two steps, always.~Andrew

[Siphone72]

Hi .44 was the first reloading I did, I use Hodgens Clays 6gn with a .240 round nose flat point in my .44 lever action. perfect for 25 - 100 yards. 

 

[phaedra1106uk]

Like Andrew and DogyRog I've been shooting 44mag for over 40 years, S&W model 29 pistol back in the sensible days, 8gr of Unique was an excellent load with a 200gr cast bullet.

Nowadays I run 2 Henry BigBoys, their preferred bullet is a 240gr RNFP from ShellHouse Bullets sized at .430 over 6.2gr of GM3, a nice accurate load.

I also use a case mouth flaring die and separate bullet seating and factory crimping dies.

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

I'm also starting to play around with 44 mag and cast bullets out of a lever action.

I have had some OK results with Unique but I find it difficult to measure conistently unless you trickle and weigh each charge. (Also if I try and charge through the belling die it seems to stick in te die body no matter how I try and "de-static" it)

I was wondering about my Titegroup as is a ball powder might be more conistent volumetrically? Or would GM3 be better?

Scrummy

[phaedra1106uk]

Despite what it says on some internet sites TiteGroup isn't a ball powder, it's a flake.

I've had accurate loads in the 44's using 4.8gr for the 200gr and 7.1gr for the 240gr bullets.  Both running around 850fps for 25m indoor ranges.

Be very careful not to double charge, it's a very small amount of powder.

[Scrumbag]

Thanks @phaedra1106uk Would you recommend Titegroup or GM3?

[Pat Allen]

I found that to get something flattish shooting out of 18 inch marlin with Ballard rifling to use 200g rnfp with a slower powder such as bluedot. It gives a better felt recoil than fast powders which just kick and more of a push. My 200 g load is virtually same point of impact from 10-50 mtrs exactly what I needed for 1500 competitions. But it’s all down to personal preference. 

[Scrumbag]

1 hour ago, Pat Allen said:

I found that to get something flattish shooting out of 18 inch marlin with Ballard rifling to use 200g rnfp with a slower powder such as bluedot. It gives a better felt recoil than fast powders which just kick and more of a push. My 200 g load is virtually same point of impact from 10-50 mtrs exactly what I needed for 1500 competitions. But it’s all down to personal preference. 

That's interesting. My 20" barrelled Chiappa quite likes the 200gr RNFP 44 Special "Cowboy" loads produced by Magtech. I bought them mainly for the brass as some of our ROs are sticklers about 44 mag in lever actions and "full power" loads being over the range ME limit.

Scrummy

[Pat Allen]

34 minutes ago, Scrumbag said:

That's interesting. My 20" barrelled Chiappa quite likes the 200gr RNFP 44 Special "Cowboy" loads produced by Magtech. I bought them mainly for the brass as some of our ROs are sticklers about 44 mag in lever actions and "full power" loads being over the range ME limit.

Scrummy

Well I suppose it depends if your after accuracy or power? If it’s practical shooting then knocking down steels with a 44 special might be hit and miss . My 200g loads were for 1500 comps and meant I didn’t have to aum off much between distances. I find the recoil between the 200’s and 240’s is very different and for target work the 200’s were as good. In my opinion unless you need the knock down power reduced loads are better for target shooting or things like pp1 or multi target as you get back on target quicker than full blown 240 g loads . Again personal preference as many have other ideas. In my opinion the mag tech brass is too hard and prefer R.E.M. peters and reloads easier . Again personal preference but have been reloading 44 mag for 40 yrs now in pistols and rifles. Good luck with it . 

[Triffid]

8 hours ago, Scrumbag said:

Hi folks,

I'm also starting to play around with 44 mag and cast bullets out of a lever action.

I have had some OK results with Unique but I find it difficult to measure conistently unless you trickle and weigh each charge. (Also if I try and charge through the belling die it seems to stick in te die body no matter how I try and "de-static" it)

I was wondering about my Titegroup as is a ball powder might be more conistent volumetrically? Or would GM3 be better?

Scrummy

I've been loading .44 for the best part of thirty years . . .

There's lots of info on loads here: http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm. My standard used to be 8gn of Unique, until I discovered Maxam PSB2+ which is significantly cheaper. 10gn of this works well for me and is more accurate than Unique. 

I've never thought it necessary to trickle-up - I leave that to precision rifle loads. Instead I use a Lee Autodisk powder measure and accept that it's +/- 0.2gn; at 25m it won't make any difference. If you're having static problems, the get some powdered graphite and run a little through the measure.

Triffid

 

[Scrumbag]

15 hours ago, Pat Allen said:

Well I suppose it depends if your after accuracy or power? If it’s practical shooting then knocking down steels with a 44 special might be hit and miss . My 200g loads were for 1500 comps and meant I didn’t have to aum off much between distances. I find the recoil between the 200’s and 240’s is very different and for target work the 200’s were as good. In my opinion unless you need the knock down power reduced loads are better for target shooting or things like pp1 or multi target as you get back on target quicker than full blown 240 g loads . Again personal preference as many have other ideas. In my opinion the mag tech brass is too hard and prefer R.E.M. peters and reloads easier . Again personal preference but have been reloading 44 mag for 40 yrs now in pistols and rifles. Good luck with it . 

Thanks Pat. I'd be tempted to say I'm quite unlikely to shoot steels, it will most likely be shooting paper 25 and maybe 50 yds with the occasional foray into shooting a bit further maybe 100 and 200 occasionally. (Though given the sights I use and their adjustment range I think I'd be better using a super sonic ammo as it takes rather less come up).

Best wishes,

Scrummy

Best wishes,

Scrummy

[phaedra1106uk]

If you can find it GM3 works nicely and was (when I bought 10Kg of it) about £30/Kg 

Another alternative (and cheaper then the usual powders) is Maxam CSB5 which is around £29 for .5Kg

https://www.claygame.co.uk/maxam-csb5-powder-pd18

[Scrumbag]

21 hours ago, Triffid said:

I've been loading .44 for the best part of thirty years . . .

There's lots of info on loads here: http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm. My standard used to be 8gn of Unique, until I discovered Maxam PSB2+ which is significantly cheaper. 10gn of this works well for me and is more accurate than Unique. 

I've never thought it necessary to trickle-up - I leave that to precision rifle loads. Instead I use a Lee Autodisk powder measure and accept that it's +/- 0.2gn; at 25m it won't make any difference. If you're having static problems, the get some powdered graphite and run a little through the measure.

Triffid

 

That is a very cool resource!

I am hoping to have a set of  loads and sight settings that go from "Mild to wild" with the .44 mag.

So a cast bullet load for plinking and a 1,700ftlb load which is all deer legal in England.

Scrummy

[Triffid]

14 hours ago, Scrumbag said:

That is a very cool resource!

I am hoping to have a set of  loads and sight settings that go from "Mild to wild" with the .44 mag.

So a cast bullet load for plinking and a 1,700ftlb load which is all deer legal in England.

Scrummy

I've always used Alliant 2400 for my full power loads. Works really well and I've never seen the need to change. Full whack stuff can be a little uncomfortable though!

Triffid

[Scrumbag]

7 minutes ago, Triffid said:

I've always used Alliant 2400 for my full power loads. Works really well and I've never seen the need to change. Full whack stuff can be a little uncomfortable though!

Triffid

Yes I have heard that's good. I also have some H110 (Mainly because Hodgdon produce 20" barrel carbine data for 44 mag) but I think Viht N110 might be the more flexible choice.

Scrummy

[Popsbengo]

6 hours ago, Scrumbag said:

Yes I have heard that's good. I also have some H110 (Mainly because Hodgdon produce 20" barrel carbine data for 44 mag) but I think Viht N110 might be the more flexible choice.

Scrummy

I use N110 for full power loads in .44mag but I don't think it's suitable for target loads as a substitute for Unique or Herco.

[Scrumbag]

3 hours ago, Popsbengo said:

I use N110 for full power loads in .44mag but I don't think it's suitable for target loads as a substitute for Unique or Herco.

Sorry, I should have been more precise. More flexible for developing a full power jacketed load.

With N110 and a 240gr Hornady JTC-Sil Viht quotes loads

20.4-22.1gr

Hodgdon with H110 and Nosler JSP (similar length) quotes a 1.0gr min-max as does Nosler with the same bullet.

Scrummy

[Catch-22]

All good info so far.

Does anyone know of a good retailer of Vectan, Nobelsport and Maxam powders around the S Wales, Bristol, Gloucestershire area?

Specifically looking to load light cowboy action loads, (I currently use a 240gn lead bullet with 10.8gn VV N340 - but it’s £90kg!!) so would like to switch to powders like GM3, Maxam CSB5 and PSB2+ etc.

Thanks!

[Vortex]

7.2Gr of Tinstar with 200gr RNFP hard cast lead works well.  Tried 7 up to 8.4 I think and just left it at 7.2 as it grouped well and recoil wasn’t bad at all. 
8.4 felt more like full power loads.