.44 mag advice

[Kipper]

I've have never reloaded for pistol calibres before so looking for advice on what powder to go for and what weight off bullet to use etc. 

Will be used at 25yrds and 100 yards 

[Catch-22]

Depends if you want to shoot full power with copper bullets or mild cowboy type loads shooting lead.

I like to shoot a mild(ish) load of hard cast lead in my .44mag Rossi underleaver. Great accurate fun out 50yds or so but 100yds is like shooting a mortar...still fun none the less!

Most accurate load I’ve found is 10.8gn of Viht N340 with the 240gn Lead RNFP. Starline brass, Murom Large Pistol Primers.

I get bulk boxes from Shell House Bullet Company. Great people to deal with. These are the 240gn RNFP bullets I use;

https://www.shellhousebulletcompany.com/new-products/240gr-44-rnfp-sized-to-430432

 

[Kipper]

I can source 250gr lead bullets locally,

They have starline brass too.

They stock bullseye powder also, is that suitable ? I'm assuming it large pistol primers too

[Catch-22]

Yes to large pistol primers.

Unsure about Bullseye as I’ve never used it before.

Bear in mind that with lead you can’t push the velocity too hard because you’ll get serious leading in the barrel. I normally try to duplicate a cowboy action load. Zero recoil and just tonnes of fun. 0.5kg of powder makes up around 400 rounds, so cheap feeding. 

I’d say Unique, RS20, Viht N330, N340 and possibly Vhit N32C are good for this application. They err on the side of a .44spl load and are just about right with a lead bullet. 

Slower powders, like Viht N105 and N110 are good if wanting to shoot full power .44mag loads with copper bullets. Just don’t shoot lead with them.

One thing to bear in mind with pistol powders is how a minute amount of powder can make a massive difference. They burn fast and can spike quickly, so make your test loads up in 0.1 to 0.2gn increments. And always double check you’ve not thrown a double charge. Rifle powders give much better case to fill ratio, making it harder to double throw. But pistol powders seldom fill the case up (especially if using the fast powders), so make sure you double check as it’s easy to have a nasty surprise.

Best of luck!

[Pat Allen]

Seconded for Unique but HP-38 works well with all bullet weights. Depending what you shoot you can get 200 and 240g lead I various forms. Shellhouse bullets are a little soft but at low speed ok. For quicker speeds GM bullets are harder material. Around 7gts of HP-38 with a 240gt RNFP or TC is a good all rounder.

[Kipper]

Will mostly be 25yards so lead will be fine to start with.

I have found a source for unique locally so will give it a go

[Pat Allen]

Well if you use unique find a load that shoots well then after about 25 rds push a tight dry patch through and check for lead residue. If there a slithers adjust the powder charge up and down (1/2 grain) You will find that there will be a load that reduces leading but still gives good accuracy. This is  the norm for marlins especially with Ballard rifling others do it aswell.  I did this with my neighbours new Marlin and two of my own many years ago. Is it a marlin you are using ?

[Mattnall]

I use Bullseye, 4.4gn with a 220gn bullet.

It's a bit fast as powders go but never had a problem yet. It is slightly up on the load I used in my pistol and it is on the lighter side, think more 44spl in a magnum case.

[Andrew]

14 hours ago, Catch-22 said:

Yes to large pistol primers.

Unsure about Bullseye as I’ve never used it before.

Bear in mind that with lead you can’t push the velocity too hard because you’ll get serious leading in the barrel. I normally try to duplicate a cowboy action load. Zero recoil and just tonnes of fun. 0.5kg of powder makes up around 400 rounds, so cheap feeding. 

I’d say Unique, RS20, Viht N330, N340 and possibly Vhit N32C are good for this application. They err on the side of a .44spl load and are just about right with a lead bullet. 

Slower powders, like Viht N105 and N110 are good if wanting to shoot full power .44mag loads with copper bullets. Just don’t shoot lead with them.

One thing to bear in mind with pistol powders is how a minute amount of powder can make a massive difference. They burn fast and can spike quickly, so make your test loads up in 0.1 to 0.2gn increments. And always double check you’ve not thrown a double charge. Rifle powders give much better case to fill ratio, making it harder to double throw. But pistol powders seldom fill the case up (especially if using the fast powders), so make sure you double check as it’s easy to have a nasty surprise.

Best of luck!

I have been shooting 44 magnum for 40+ years and almost all of it with handloads and cast lead bullets. All of the above advice is good, but with lead alloy bullets it's important to remember that with a well-fit bullet, velocity does not cause leading; pressure that exceeds the yield strength of the alloy does. Velocity and pressure do not go hand in hand. A look at a Lyman manual will show that some of the fast burning shotgun powders give low velocities but with pressures in the jacketed range. As was pointed out, it's a matter of time. How quickly maximum pressure for the cartridge is reached. A charge of very quick powder burns quickly and produces little gas to push the bullet. Slower powder just the opposite resulting in a slower peak and more gas volume to push the bullet. (simplistically speaking) If you have a bullet that is hard cast with a gas check, you can drive them at jacketed speeds provided you use the correct powder -one that gives the velocities you want but staying within the pressure constraints of the particular alloy of the bullet. I shoot .225" ,  56 grain cast bullets at 2750 fps with MOA accuracy and no leading using this principle.

With that said, Bullseye is a terrible choice for 44 magnum. I used it waaay back for 38 Special revolver loads but finally switched to Unique. The Bullseye was too peaky and a double charge would be disastrous. (I wasn't worried about myself but the thought of my beautiful Colt Shooting Master revolver disintegrating is heartbreaking)  I still have the original canister of Bullseye I was using, unloved and unused.

I have zero experience with Vhit powders so I cannot advise. I used Accurate 5744 and Alliant 2400 for my 200 M handgun loads, and hunting loads from my Remington 44 mag bolt gun and assorted handguns. They worked well. Unique was also a good powder but with bullets in the 240 -255 grain range, about 10 grains was all you wanted to use though I recall 12.5 was the top?? In any event, I settled on 8-10 grains.

Since You are using a rifle, I will warn that  to use cast bullets to the best advantage, your bore should be as free of copper fouling as possible. Copper will cause leading and inaccuracy. Really get the bore to bare metal for cast bullets. I shoot a lot of cast bullets in CF rifles from 222 to 30-06 and all are dedicated cast bullet guns. No copper jacketed rounds go through them.  Good luck.~Andrew

[KABOOM]

18 hours ago, Kipper said:

I can source 250gr lead bullets locally,

They have starline brass too.

They stock bullseye powder also, is that suitable ? I'm assuming it large pistol primers too

You will love Starline brass I use it in .44mag. Not knowing what powder is available limits my thought but I would not use bullseye in that huge case, I do use Accurate Arms No 7 and when that dwindles Alliant 2400 over a 240grn swc .

 

[KABOOM]

3 hours ago, Andrew said:

I have been shooting 44 magnum for 40+ years and almost all of it with handloads and cast lead bullets. All of the above advice is good, but with lead alloy bullets it's important to remember that with a well-fit bullet, velocity does not cause leading; pressure that exceeds the yield strength of the alloy does. Velocity and pressure do not go hand in hand. A look at a Lyman manual will show that some of the fast burning shotgun powders give low velocities but with pressures in the jacketed range. As was pointed out, it's a matter of time. How quickly maximum pressure for the cartridge is reached. A charge of very quick powder burns quickly and produces little gas to push the bullet. Slower powder just the opposite resulting in a slower peak and more gas volume to push the bullet. (simplistically speaking) If you have a bullet that is hard cast with a gas check, you can drive them at jacketed speeds provided you use the correct powder -one that gives the velocities you want but staying within the pressure constraints of the particular alloy of the bullet. I shoot .225" ,  56 grain cast bullets at 2750 fps with MOA accuracy and no leading using this principle.

With that said, Bullseye is a terrible choice for 44 magnum. I used it waaay back for 38 Special revolver loads but finally switched to Unique. The Bullseye was too peaky and a double charge would be disastrous. (I wasn't worried about myself but the thought of my beautiful Colt Shooting Master revolver disintegrating is heartbreaking)  I still have the original canister of Bullseye I was using, unloved and unused.

I have zero experience with Vhit powders so I cannot advise. I used Accurate 5744 and Alliant 2400 for my 200 M handgun loads, and hunting loads from my Remington 44 mag bolt gun and assorted handguns. They worked well. Unique was also a good powder but with bullets in the 240 -255 grain range, about 10 grains was all you wanted to use though I recall 12.5 was the top?? In any event, I settled on 8-10 grains.

Since You are using a rifle, I will warn that  to use cast bullets to the best advantage, your bore should be as free of copper fouling as possible. Copper will cause leading and inaccuracy. Really get the bore to bare metal for cast bullets. I shoot a lot of cast bullets in CF rifles from 222 to 30-06 and all are dedicated cast bullet guns. No copper jacketed rounds go through them.  Good luck.~Andrew

Well said,  had I not been up after a 12 hr night shift I hope I would have said what you did with such clarity.

[Miseryguts]

240gr bullet from H&N or LOS ( these are electroplated copper on lead)

H&N also have a nice plastic coating as well

6.3 or 6.5gr Unique with H&N TC gives 950 to 980fps

6.8gr Unique with LOS RNFP gives 960 to to 1000fps

Both loads are better than 1.5moa ES at 50 to 60yards through a Henry Big Boy, and I am certain that the gun will shoot better than that - me and peep sights are not really compatible!

Only problem is that as with all lever rifles with barrel clamps, POI changes as the barrel warms up, which is a shame on a lever action rifle with a fast cycling action

M

[Kipper]

I will be using bought lead cast bullets, looks like Unique powder going by the advice so far.

Next silly question...why is there .430 & .432 bullets avalible ? 

My local rfd has .429 listed for sale

[Triffid]

Here's a great resource for reloading the 44.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

 

One of the keys to using cast bullets is an accurate fit - 2 thou greater that the barrel I think is the normal recomendation and the reason why various diameter bullets are available. I recall the Shellhouse will size to whatever you want. But you have to slug your barrel first.

 

Triffid

[Kipper]

I read a bit about slugging the barrel.

Pretty much ramming a bullet through the barrel with a cleaning rod and measuring the width ?

[Triffid]

Yes, but the devil's in the detail. I squash the bullet a little with a hammer first to make sure it's oversize, and lubricate the barrel first. It should be a pure lead bullet, as alloyed ones are too hard(?). And don't use the steel end of the cleaning rod, make sure you've got it covered with a brass jag or similar.

Triffid

[Andrew]

I've got a different method. Best diameter of a cast bullet has little to do with the groove diameter (tho a couple of thou usually handles it). When I shot Cast Bullet Assn Bench Rest I sized bullet to .001" under throat diameter. Without having Cerrosafe to cast the chamber, you can do a pretty credible job by balling up thin aluminum cooking foil tapping it into the down range end of the chamber while having a .44 jag on a rod positioned to use as an anvil so the wad can expand to fill the void. Sounds crazy but it works pretty well. Tap it out and measure the foil plug you've formed in the shape of the chamber/throat and go .001" less than the throat.

As was said, the devil is in the details....and there are a lot of them.~Andrew

 

[Kipper]

If it works it ain't stupid ..

[dodgyrog]

On 5/30/2020 at 10:57 PM, Catch-22 said:

Yes to large pistol primers.

Unsure about Bullseye as I’ve never used it before.

Bear in mind that with lead you can’t push the velocity too hard because you’ll get serious leading in the barrel. I normally try to duplicate a cowboy action load. Zero recoil and just tonnes of fun. 0.5kg of powder makes up around 400 rounds, so cheap feeding. 

I’d say Unique, RS20, Viht N330, N340 and possibly Vhit N32C are good for this application. They err on the side of a .44spl load and are just about right with a lead bullet. 

Slower powders, like Viht N105 and N110 are good if wanting to shoot full power .44mag loads with copper bullets. Just don’t shoot lead with them.

One thing to bear in mind with pistol powders is how a minute amount of powder can make a massive difference. They burn fast and can spike quickly, so make your test loads up in 0.1 to 0.2gn increments. And always double check you’ve not thrown a double charge. Rifle powders give much better case to fill ratio, making it harder to double throw. But pistol powders seldom fill the case up (especially if using the fast powders), so make sure you double check as it’s easy to have a nasty surprise.

Best of luck!

The only reasons I know for leading are:

1/ Boolit fit is not good. Use a .430" boolit

2/ inadequate (usually too hard) lube

3/ Boolit metal is too hard and will not obdurate into the rifling

My boolits are cast from indoor range waste cut back with roofing lead or lead pipe metal.

If you get lead deposition in the barrel you're doing something wrong

A good cast boolit should easily do 1500fps with no problem

I use 6,3 grains of GM3 for my loads

Edited June 1, 2020 by dodgyrog
Added info

[Catch-22]

Apologies, as per what was previously pointed out to me, I should have been clearer about pressure - not velocity per se.

And yes you’re right, bullet fit to bore is key. 

[Kipper]

Lube?? Dont I just press them into the case as per centrefire? 

[Andrew]

5 hours ago, Kipper said:

Lube?? Dont I just press them into the case as per centrefire? 

You're joking, right?🤔~Andrew

[Bangbangman]

12 hours ago, Kipper said:

Lube?? Dont I just press them into the case as per centrefire? 

Commercially available cast bullets will usually be lubed already.

 

There are some other differences compared to loading jacketed bullets, eg the need to slightly Bell the case mouth and, in some cases, expand it too. Crimp also important in revolvers and tube-fed rifles

 

I'd do a bit more reading around the subject; there seem to be gaps in your knowledge and you can't safely rely on a forum to find and fill them. 

 

The Lyman cast bullet handbook is a good starting point.

 

 

 

 

 

[dodgyrog]

The lube on a cast boolit is forced into a groove around the circumference whilst the boolit is pushed through a sizing die.

A soft lube flows around quite easily (eg Alox/Beeswax 50% of each) whereas hard lubes need to be heated to get them to flow.

Softer lubes are IMHO more beneficial on cast pistol calibre boolits whereas the harder lubes suit rifle boolits that are pushed harder and faster.

I hope that helps

[Kipper]

I wont be casting my own, I dont have time for that or knowledge for that. I didnt realise reloading pistol rounds was so different from rifle round, I already knew I would have to expand the case mouth etc but I assumed factory bullets would already have lube coated on them.