Remington 700 sa extractor question

[baldie]

If the gun hasn't been apart for repaint or anything, since it was proofed, then its headspace will be correct, it certainly can't shrink.

It hasn't got a "tight" chamber either, that's a SAAMI spec reamer, that hasn't cut more than a dozen barrels now, certainly not in 2010.

Its your reloading set up.

[Scooby-93]

Steve, 

I would buy BRAND NEW brass and start again. 
 

As Dave has said it does sound like your reloading method.

with brand new cases run them through your correctly set up FL die ONLY to neck them down. 
 

Without seating bullets etc run them Through the chamber. If all is good load a couple up fire them off and see how your extraction is.

if extraction is hard, measure your headspace with the primer removed on the fired case and then correctly set your die up to bump the shoulder back 1-2 thou, then cycle through the chamber to make sure they chamber and extract easily.

if they don’t and you end up bumping the shoulder back say 5thou then it’s not the shoulder that’s the issue it’s most likely the body or web of the case.

try dropping your charge weight 10% and work back up but keeping within easy extraction 

 

[Bob57]

Steve, if you you have some tight cases that you've sized and would like me to run them through my die to see how they chamber pm me , also a couple of your recently fired cases would be handy and I can measure them too.

 

[outlanda]

On 6/4/2020 at 10:55 PM, Bob57 said:

Hi Steve, I don't understand why you're getting variations in your case prep if you have your Redding s bushing die set up properly to achieve bolt close without being tight on a fl sized case, are you still putting the cases through a body die after fl sizing ? Have you got cartridge headspace gauges and callipers to check head space?

You shouldn't be happy with a tight bolt close, you need to get that sorted out.

Good morning Bob. I have only used the redding s bushing die and not the form die. As the cases have already been fired in this rifle and also have same problem with new cases that both fit into the case gauge - I also don't understand. Variations as in some cases fit the gauge and some don't. I have found some variation in case length. I was using a Lee trim die in a Lee turret press. Now I have ditched the Lee trim die and will change the press as well eventually. I have also changed Lee shell holder to Redding. Also started to doubt my digital caliper.  I will try Popsbengo suggestion. I have spent a fair amount of time on this and think it would be easier to live with a tight bolt and some scruffy case rims. There are no local gunsmiths. I have reached a point where I need to upgrade the extractor or change the rifle. 

Steve

[outlanda]

23 hours ago, baldie said:

If the gun hasn't been apart for repaint or anything, since it was proofed, then its headspace will be correct, it certainly can't shrink.

It hasn't got a "tight" chamber either, that's a SAAMI spec reamer, that hasn't cut more than a dozen barrels now, certainly not in 2010.

Its your reloading set up.

Good morning Dave. The gun has not been taken apart or repainted or any change since proof. It was 2010 you chambered this barrel. 

I have not thought there was anything wrong with the barrel and have been looking at the bolt in particular the extractor. No doubt my reloading needs some attention, I have little time for it and its necessary a means to an end. Time will tell if I have sorted stuck case issues and go from there.

Thank you

Steve

[baldie]

Think i know what's wrong.

have you checked the ejector ?

If you've been shaving brass, i'll bet some has found its way down the ejector hole.

Tap out the pin and remove the ejector. Take the firing pin assembly out, and flush the whole bolt with lighter fluid and compressed air. I'll bet the ejector hasn't been bottoming properly, which will make it feel tight on closing, and will also scrub rims.

If your not confident, send it up to me, and i'll do it.

[outlanda]

22 hours ago, Scooby-93 said:

Steve, 

I would buy BRAND NEW brass and start again. 
 

As Dave has said it does sound like your reloading method.

with brand new cases run them through your correctly set up FL die ONLY to neck them down. 
 

Without seating bullets etc run them Through the chamber. If all is good load a couple up fire them off and see how your extraction is.

if extraction is hard, measure your headspace with the primer removed on the fired case and then correctly set your die up to bump the shoulder back 1-2 thou, then cycle through the chamber to make sure they chamber and extract easily.

if they don’t and you end up bumping the shoulder back say 5thou then it’s not the shoulder that’s the issue it’s most likely the body or web of the case.

try dropping your charge weight 10% and work back up but keeping within easy extraction 

 

Good morning Scooby-93. I have sized new cases that drop straight into the new Hornady case gauge. They also fit the chamber and i'm not expecting any stuck cases? I still have a tight bolt on closing only but only a little tight and have a big bolt handle to help. No problems bolt lift on extraction but there is damage to the rims from the extractor claw. Its been doing this for a while and can continue.

My charge is already low as I no longer run on full throttle so I don't think I would gain anything dropping the charge.

I happy to agree its my reloading and I need to improve but puzzled as to what?

Thank you

Steve  

[outlanda]

9 minutes ago, baldie said:

Think i know what's wrong.

have you checked the ejector ?

If you've been shaving brass, i'll bet some has found its way down the ejector hole.

Tap out the pin and remove the ejector. Take the firing pin assembly out, and flush the whole bolt with lighter fluid and compressed air. I'll bet the ejector hasn't been bottoming properly, which will make it feel tight on closing, and will also scrub rims.

If your not confident, send it up to me, and i'll do it.

Thank you Dave I will have a look later on today.

[Popsbengo]

2 hours ago, outlanda said:

I have sized new cases that drop straight into the new Hornady case gauge. They also fit the chamber and i'm not expecting any stuck cases? I still have a tight bolt on closing only but only a little tight and have a big bolt handle to help. No problems bolt lift on extraction but there is damage to the rims from the extractor claw. Its been doing this for a while and can continue.

The cases are formed from .223 by necking down with a bush, what happens at the neck/shoulder junction?  Is the bush necking down all the way to the shoulder or does it 'blend in' to the original .223 neck ?

 

[outlanda]

Hello gents.

Thank you for help. I have dedicated this morning to fixing this once and for all.

I have removed ejector, cleaned out crud and re fitted. I have removed firing pin assembly and have a nice slack bolt operation. I have checked neck to shoulder and no different to how they have been for 10 years. I have sized new brass and check they fit in a 223 case gauge which wouldn't show a problem with a .204 neck. I chamber them and the bolt needs force to close and damages case rim. I have just removed new extraction claw so will need another but without it the bolt closes with ease just as it should. I will have to leave it before I grab the angle grinder as i cannot spare any more time for this. Thank you all.

Steve

[baldie]

Now we are getting somewhere.

With new brass, the bolt, minus firing pin assembly will close tightly.

The bolt , minus firing pin and extractor, will close freely, with new brass.

The extractor is definately a 223 model ?

If so, its simply, incorrectly fitted. The 223 extractors can be a right pig to fit correctly, and usually get damaged in fitting, unless you do them regularly. A good tip is to drown the bolt head in oil, as you are wiggling them in.

The slightest bit of undue force, and they bend out of shape, and won't go back properly. Bend them too far, and they wont "spring out" and follow the rebate inside the bolt head.

[Popsbengo]

the stripped bolt closes on a chambered round with ease when the extraction claw is removed?  That's progress!

You're not the only one to have this issue, it appears to be a known problem with small cases on Rem 700.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/rem-700-extractor-giving-the-rims-of-cases-a-hard-time.3971437/

 

 

 

[outlanda]

3 hours ago, Popsbengo said:

the stripped bolt closes on a chambered round with ease when the extraction claw is removed?  That's progress!

You're not the only one to have this issue, it appears to be a known problem with small cases on Rem 700.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/rem-700-extractor-giving-the-rims-of-cases-a-hard-time.3971437/

 

 

 

Hi Popsbengo. Yes to confirm that the bolt will close with ease on a chambered round with ease when the extractor claw is removed and that is with or without firing pin assembly. Massive thank you for the link. This is exactly spot on and its as if I am K22 on that post as I have the identical problem and I see the solution there is to upgrade the extractor hence where I started this thread.

All the very best and thank you.

Steve 

[outlanda]

4 hours ago, baldie said:

Now we are getting somewhere.

With new brass, the bolt, minus firing pin assembly will close tightly.

The bolt , minus firing pin and extractor, will close freely, with new brass.

The extractor is definately a 223 model ?

If so, its simply, incorrectly fitted. The 223 extractors can be a right pig to fit correctly, and usually get damaged in fitting, unless you do them regularly. A good tip is to drown the bolt head in oil, as you are wiggling them in.

The slightest bit of undue force, and they bend out of shape, and won't go back properly. Bend them too far, and they wont "spring out" and follow the rebate inside the bolt head.

Good evening Dave.

Picking up from earlier. New brass fresh formed and checked in case gauge will fit in the chamber. With extractor fitted, with or without firing pin the bolt needs force to close and removes brass from case head side of groove (case laying down at front of photo)

With extractor removed then with or without firing pin the bolt will close freely without and just right with.

This has been an ongoing problem and have fitted many of these extractors now so aware how tricky it is. This one was a good fit but they haven't always been and I know some have been my fault but have questioned quality of brownells extractors. This one I got from ebay haha and yes it was for .223 and fitted well. I like the tip thank you. Not heard of this before and will certainly try it with the replacement.

So to confirm it is the extractor after all and really my thoughts are just how many times do I have to keep changing these bloody extractors and is it time to upgrade to something better or give up on the rem 700 because of this?

Thank you Sir

With the greatest of respect

Steve       

[Popsbengo]

33 minutes ago, outlanda said:

Hi Popsbengo. Yes to confirm that the bolt will close with ease on a chambered round with ease when the extractor claw is removed and that is with or without firing pin assembly. Massive thank you for the link. This is exactly spot on and its as if I am K22 on that post as I have the identical problem and I see the solution there is to upgrade the extractor hence where I started this thread.

All the very best and thank you.

Steve 

no problem, you had me intrigued.

I was surprised at how sh1t the 700 Rem extractor appears to be.  I've only had Sako/Sako type and Mauser extractors on bolt guns so I didn't figure on how poor such a design can be hence the diversion down the rabbit hole of sticking brass..

[Scooby-93]

Pleased you have got to the bottom of this 👍🏻

[Leeman]

Is this something peculiar to the 223 sized cases as I've had a Remington 40X, just a single shot 700 since 2000 or so and never had a problem with the extractor, still the original one after probably 6000 or so rounds, but .308 sized bolt face.  I clean out the bolt face every so often to remove the odd brass shaving but other than that it just seems to work fine, as good as the sliding extractors on other rifles I own.

[baldie]

The remmy .223, and in particular, the tactical model, is renowned for this problem. You have to be extremely careful fitting the extractor.

I use Brownell's extractors though, and have always found the to be good quality.