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270 win vs 6.5x55


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For a while now I have been considering buying a blaser R93 professional with match barrel in 6.5x55 . This is despite the advice of a number of the forums seasoned members :o .

I have been shooting a tikka lite stainless in 6.5x55 for the last five years and I get on fairly well with it, only down side is it drops off fairly quickly with the 140 gr federals.

Today I was thinking would I go for a caliber change ? and maybe give a .270 win a try. A number of my friends shoot the 270 win ( some blaser) and to very good effect. The only thing I didn't like about them in the past was the noise, esp. one friend who really stokes up his loads! ;)

While the blaser match barrel is not a standard option in 270 win, I'm told it could be got as special order ££?

 

My TRG22 is gone due to lack of use (range closed) so the reasons for 6.5, is I would like to continue to enter 3 or 4 competitions and mainly as a sika/fallow stalking round. I would prefer to stick to factory fodder so have eliminated some of the newer and more interesting rounds. Finally I have 308 coming soon but thats only for nice dry days on the hill B) . So it back to 270win or 6.5x55.

thanks

Dave

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I have been shooting a tikka lite stainless in 6.5x55 for the last five years and I get on fairly well with it, only down side is it drops off fairly quickly with the 140 gr federals.

Today I was thinking would I go for a caliber change ? and maybe give a .270 win a try. A number of my friends shoot the 270 win ( some blaser) and to very good effect. The only thing I didn't like about them in the past was the noise, esp. one friend who really stokes up his loads! ;)

 

Dave

 

 

I suspect you're gonna end up disappointed if you do make the change. The two calibres are so close in general respects that the trajectory isn't going to be much different.

Warmer handloads with a good projectile in the Swede will be snapping right on the heels of the .270.

 

Chris-NZ

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I suspect you're gonna end up disappointed if you do make the change. The two calibres are so close in general respects that the trajectory isn't going to be much different.

Warmer handloads with a good projectile in the Swede will be snapping right on the heels of the .270.

 

Chris-NZ

 

I disagree with that, ;) the 10 extra grains of powder in the bigger 270 case coupled with its higher maximum working pressure will give it a clear advantage over the Swede, the down side is there are not many or any match ammunition available for the 270

 

Best rgds

 

B-b

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Guest northernchris

If you load the "SWEDE" with proper loads NOT ones ment for old army scrapers you will piss all over the .270,i shot a .270 for the first few years of my stalking life and my current 6.5 x 55 would show the old "kicker" the way to do it every single time.Its not all about speed and big balls !!! Accuracy and correct bullet choice/placement beats horse power all the time.

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If you load the "SWEDE" with proper loads NOT ones ment for old army scrapers you will piss all over the .270,i shot a .270 for the first few years of my stalking life and my current 6.5 x 55 would show the old "kicker" the way to do it every single time.Its not all about speed and big balls !!! Accuracy and correct bullet choice/placement beats horse power all the time.

 

I'll second that. I have a Model 70 Featherweight in 6.5x55 that I gave to my son. It is a real screamer. If you look at the 129 grain 6.5 bullet and the 130 grain 270 bullet, the obtainable speeds are virtually identical....even in the 96 Swede loads.

 

When I was in college I worked rebarreling rifles for a local gunsmith who used the 6.5x55 exclusively for pronghorn antelope and mule deer. I witnessed 400 yard kills on both species and never a lost animal in the 3 years I was out with him. In his shop was a 1", 200M group and the words,"6.5 Swede! All the gun a man could need!"~Andrew

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If you load the "SWEDE" with proper loads NOT ones ment for old army scrapers you will piss all over the .270,i shot a .270 for the first few years of my stalking life and my current 6.5 x 55 would show the old "kicker" the way to do it every single time.Its not all about speed and big balls !!! Accuracy and correct bullet choice/placement beats horse power all the time.

 

Yup, my experience too.

My old .270 kills 'em but with noticeably more bang and bite than my 7-08. At less than ~350yds, the .270 has NO advantage in most deer shooting situations. I've had just as many Bang-Flops with the 7-08 as the .270.

 

It's the old Law of Diminishing Returns in action. You need to suffer some serious damage to your wallet and shoulder to make significant improvements to the more standard calibres such as the Swede in conventional deer stalking situations.

 

Chris-NZ

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I'll second that. I have a Model 70 Featherweight in 6.5x55 that I gave to my son. It is a real screamer. If you look at the 129 grain 6.5 bullet and the 130 grain 270 bullet, the obtainable speeds are virtually identical....even in the 96 Swede loads.

 

When I was in college I worked rebarreling rifles for a local gunsmith who used the 6.5x55 exclusively for pronghorn antelope and mule deer. I witnessed 400 yard kills on both species and never a lost animal in the 3 years I was out with him. In his shop was a 1", 200M group and the words,"6.5 Swede! All the gun a man could need!"~Andrew

 

 

This is very interesting because I honestly expected most to fall on the side of the 270 win. But just to clarify with Northen Chris and Andrew are you saying that much higher velocities can be obtained with proper hand loading? It is just most data I have read has the 270 130gr MV ~3000+ fps whereas the 6.5x55 129 gr seem to max out in the 2700-2800 region. Or are you refering to the 6.5's better BC and better energy retention properties down range?

 

Dave ;)

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Guest northernchris

Most published loading data for the "Swede" is mild to say the least.If you load CAREFULLY you will get better speeds but at the end of day the bullet construction has more to do with knock down power than speed alone.

Its fine having the lastest wooperdropperlittledick-magum but if the bullet dont transfer ALL/100% of its energy into the beast the extra power its wasted,Look at varmint rounds they dump/expel 99% of their energy into the target...but when your trying to kill deer it a compromise between meat damage and knock down power.

The swede with the right bullet takes some beating.

I have proved this time and time again at distances further than 200yrds ;) a couple of the members on here will back up the effectiveness of what the swede will do even at longer than expepted ranges.

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I disagree with that, ;) the 10 extra grains of powder in the bigger 270 case coupled with its higher maximum working pressure will give it a clear advantage over the Swede, the down side is there are not many or any match ammunition available for the 270

 

Best rgds

 

B-b

 

 

Berger have brought out .270 VLD in 130-140-150 grain

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As Chris and others say, properly loaded the 6.5 has every thing going for it. I have both and the 6.5 is the goto every time, even though I like the Sako 270 I have which is very accurate, meat damage etc is the downside. treat yourself to a new or customise your own 6.5 you will be happier.

redfox

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My friend has a 6.5 ruger 22",

4 times I stood next to him to witness fallow and sika does being heart shot.

The deer did not even buck up and just ran away.

Every time we searched and found them with a perfect heart shot at least

100yds away. Tiny hole in and tiny hole out. No stopping power.

This caliber is very sensitive to using the wrong bullet. He used 156gr Lapua Mega.

Maybe only 2400fps. The high speed flat shooting 6.5 swede, my foot.

 

Dave get a 7-08, I think even berger corrected their bc values for the 6.5 and

the 7mm looks much more interesting now.

 

 

edi

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Guest northernchris

Edi

 

"tiny hole"=wrong bullet not that difficult to understand.

 

Why use a Lapua Mega?? good for min meat damage and pigs thats about it!! What i wrote applies to all calibres use the wrong bullet and get the wrong results.

 

IE i load for a .300 Win Mag with 165gr Noslers @ 3100 fps puts EVERYTHING ON ITS ARSE yet when you run the 180gr BT you get LESS meat damage= less energy transferd to the target.

 

It is always going to be a fine balanceing act between damage and knockdown power.

 

I used to have people out on the hill from europe and we saw plenty of spectaclur flesh wounds from big cals like 8 x 68S,9.3 x 64 etc etc why coz the where useing the wrong bullet.

 

Put the right bullet in the right place job done.

 

PS

Those doe,s you have over there must be big fe kers ,much bigger than the elk the Swedes shoot at and kill with the 55 ;)

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Chris you are right with wrong bullet,

but the inexperienced looks at the box in the shop and thinks well... Elk.. that must be good.

The smaller the animal the more expansion you want because of the energy transfer.

The slower the velocity the softer the bullet must be OR ????

Now the swede is at the lower end of the speed scale of all modern hunting rounds.

The bullet manufacturers do not make special bullets for the swede as they do for the 30-30, this

means heavy bullets out of the swede do not expand well on small and mid sized deer. fact

Why does the swede have such a reputation for deep penetration??? because it does

little damage when traveling through flesh and can therefore travel deep even with that lowish

energy that it has. Deep penetration means little energy transfer, logic or??

 

Anyway because of these elk bullets many deer have been lost.

Some countries are not allowed to reload and ammo choice is limited.

 

In which point is the swede now better than a 7-08 again??

 

I think the swede is a caliber for an expert. More so than a plane jane 308 which

is a much more forgiving with factory ammo.

 

edi

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Guest northernchris

Or just run a lighter bullet or drive it faster whichever is easy.I can run 3140fps with 120gr Gamekings and ever so sligthly less with 123gr Scenar out of my Swede but tend to run around 2800 fps where accuracy is VERY VERY good.

Read what i have said Edi we are both saying simlar things.

 

"means heavy bullets out of the swede do not expand well on small and mid sized deer" I dont think Norma or Lapua would recomend 156gr Mega for Roe or Fallow does.

 

Any calibre useing the more weighty bullets will produce LESS meat damage and thats ANY CALIBRE.

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do i not under stand the laws of physics.

if i shoot my .270 with a 130gr sst out of my rifle at 3000fps with a 22 inch barrel weighing 10 pounds

and a 6.5x55 with a 129gr sst shot a 2900 -3000 fps if possible , from a 24 inch barrel weighing 10 pounds should the felt recoil be very much the same .

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I can run 3140fps with 120gr Gamekings

 

#### me Chris talk about Stoked up. ;):o Hornady give a maximum muzzle velocity of 2700fps with a 29” barrel. I get 3200fps out of my 270 and still .75” groups with 130gn bullets. I note that a 264 Winchester Magnum using 65gn max load of H4831 can only achieve this velocity with a 129gn bullet.

 

I find this debate a bit perplexing, the kings of long range shooting seem to be bore sizes of 6.5mm or 7mm, the 270 falls between both of these so with the right bullets it should be the ideal calibre. The 270 has more case capacity than a 6.5x284 never mind a 6.5X55.

 

My mate stop using his 6.5X55 on big stags because he got too many runners, for the last two years he has been using a 270, no runners now ;) anodal evidence may be, but it is in directly opposite to some of the other post on here. B)

 

Best rgds

 

B-b

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This is very interesting because I honestly expected most to fall on the side of the 270 win. But just to clarify with Northen Chris and Andrew are you saying that much higher velocities can be obtained with proper hand loading? It is just most data I have read has the 270 130gr MV ~3000+ fps whereas the 6.5x55 129 gr seem to max out in the 2700-2800 region. Or are you refering to the 6.5's better BC and better energy retention properties down range?

 

Dave ;)

 

I just grabbed the Lee #2 manual and looked. The top loads for the 270 /130 are touch over 3000. The top loads for the 129/6. are a smidge under 2900. The deer wouldn't know the difference.

 

As to the comment about the wrong bullets, well, there is no hedging bad judgment. If a fellow doesn't know what he's doing he's going to get some mixed results. A 120 grain probably would have sufficed.

 

The 6.5 is in an odd place. The load restrictions for that cartridge are based on the 96 Swede. This rifle is amply strong enough. (When Kimber was going belly up 15 years ago they bought Swede 96's and rebarreled them to modern calibers just to stay alive.) The problem is that these rifles have inadequate venting for ruptured primers or a cracked casing. It is safe to assume that with a modern rifle you should be able to surpass the listed pressures but that's a dangerous road to travel for the careless. It can be done safely by a knowledgeable reloader who is willing to take the proper steps and proceed in a patient, scientific manner. JMHO, ~Andrew

 

As an aside: The Federal Cartridge company used to load their very popular 140 grain BT in the 6.5x55 at 2840 fps. Their attorneys had them back that off when the sudden influx of Swedes hit the US!

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When I was looking at calibre choice, I came across http://www.eabco.com/swiftbulletco02.htm, a gunsmiths view which seemed to put several things in context.

I just read the November 2008 copy of Guns & Ammo, not usually a place where 'euro calibres' thrive, but they get excited about the Swede, 'with modern loads in modern action'. And in several articles Boddington writes about '... choosing the right type of bullet for the job..'

seems as tho' they have beens reading these discussions too!!

Having chatted with users of a range of calibres and tried several guns, I went with the 6.5x55 and have no wish to upsize ... yet.

jon

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Guest northernchris

Jon

 

I think just by useing common sense and good judgement will get results whichever way people choose.

 

As for beasts moving/running after the shot i can count on one hand how many i have seen drop on the spot to a HEART/LUNG shot but seen loads drop when shot high in the withers "yankie" style,even with good heart shots Reds and more so Sika will and do get their head down and crack on.

 

If you dont want them to move poke it in the back of the walnut or brake the shoulders.

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Guest northernchris

Bambi

 

"#### me Chris talk about Stoked up."

 

ish

but worked up carefully you should have no problems,Sierra quote 3000fps with a 120gr Gameking and thats with publised data.As already said the deer wont know the difference anyways if you have choosen the right pill ;)

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Jon

 

I think just by useing common sense and good judgement will get results whichever way people choose.

 

As for beasts moving/running after the shot i can count on one hand how many i have seen drop on the spot to a HEART/LUNG shot but seen loads drop when shot high in the withers "yankie" style,even with good heart shots Reds and more so Sika will and do get their head down and crack on.

 

If you dont want them to move poke it in the back of the walnut or brake the shoulders.

I don't even want to ask what qualifies as a "yankie" shot!

I do agree with you about the heart/lung shot to an extent. Nothing goes too far without lungs but I have seen deer bolt for as far as 75 yards with no heart to speak of.~Andrew

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I just grabbed the Lee #2 manual and looked. The top loads for the 270 /130 are touch over 3000. The top loads for the 129/6. are a smidge under 2900.

 

Andrew I know you are 6.5X55 fan but the Lee second Edition quotes 3234pfs max' for a 270 with 130gn bullets I think your are stretching things a bit calling that a touch over 3000fps. ;) seeing that the 270 is 86 years old I wonder if you threw away the manual how much more velocity you could get out of it? Seeing it has 10gns of powder more than the Swede. :o

 

If you are pushing a 6.5X55 to the max' and over, surely you are losing that mild recoiling cartridge a lot of 6.5X55 owners rave about, and if you want that cartridge to perform like a 270 why not just go and buy one?

 

Best rgds

 

B-b

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funny you never see 270 owner s trying to justify why the use the caliber.

un like the 6.5x55 users ,always ranting on about loads ,bullets ,FPS,mild recoil ,max loads,hammer to open the bolt. etc

just go use a 270 ,you would give a aspirin a headache

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