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Gun retailers deemed 'essential service' by federal government


miki

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Got to agree......having seen the mass demonstrations in the US about being told to stay home and how it breaches their civil liberties, I've got to say they're a different animal altogether.......gotta love 'em but very different !

Regards, Rob. 

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It's definitely a difference in perspective and attitude (good, and bad). 

I have to say, I would struggle to live under some of the constraints that you guys happily contend with (firearms have to be locked up in a safe, can only have so much ammunition, have to have permission, etc.). That being said, parts of the US can be a bit more rough and tumble, both from the two legged animals, as well as the four legged ones.  And so, I think the US laws (and rights) evolved for a reason.  Sometimes it serves us well, other times it serves the nefarious types more.  After having lived in the UK briefly, I still wouldn't have it any other way in the US.  Just different horse for courses so-to-speak...

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1 hour ago, MarinePMI said:

It's definitely a difference in perspective and attitude (good, and bad). 

I have to say, I would struggle to live under some of the constraints that you guys happily contend with (firearms have to be locked up in a safe, can only have so much ammunition, have to have permission, etc.). That being said, parts of the US can be a bit more rough and tumble, both from the two legged animals, as well as the four legged ones.  And so, I think the US laws (and rights) evolved for a reason.  Sometimes it serves us well, other times it serves the nefarious types more.  After having lived in the UK briefly, I still wouldn't have it any other way in the US.  Just different horse for courses so-to-speak...

👍👍

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I have to confess that I think our gun laws are a complete arse....I have had a ticket since the mid seventies and the laws have got ever stricter and our country less safe.

Hungerford robbed us of full bore semi autos The lies of Dunblane deprived 64000 pistol shooters of sport and in some instances people’s livelihoods with a lot of evidence put under a 100 year disclosure order why?

Look it up ...a mountain of skullduggery afoot there...Why the absolute micro management? Why can you not freely buy and sell your own property within agreed limits?why the need to sell a rifle you already own and then have to wait god knows how long to get another similar?

The system stinks.....not interested in a discussion on this as people will probably disagree citing fairness and consideration of public safety etc.My views are founded on 50 plus years of shooting and a fac/shotgun cert holder for 40 plus years...I have been lucky and owned some tasty toys over the years but alas no more.

we are I do believe participants in a sport that has been on the retreat for decades...

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It is a definite cultural difference.

In the UK and Europe, we panic buy toilet rolls, in the USA, in the same circumstances, they panic buy guns!!

Both entirely irrational reactions to the same situation.

However, it has to be said that the response of many US citizens to any "crisis" is to buy more guns.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

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Well when I was younger I put my money where my mouth was and moved to CZ - best thing I ever did. A large part of that was due to U.K. restrictions on firearms. 

The worst thing that I did not do was moving to the USA when I had the opportunity (before moving to CZ).

Point is find a place in the world where you are happy as you will never change the system in your lifetime. I got it a bit wrong with CZ as I did not foresee it becoming part of the EU at the time. At least in the USA it is so diverse that you can find a place that is more  likely to meet your lifestyle / values / beliefs and freedoms so that you do not feel that you are forced to comply with draconian values that you do not believe in.

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Firearms law in the UK is a mess, we all know that and agree I think.  The problem is any decent attempt to review and replace the mess could only result in yet more restrictions I believe.

Best it's left well alone. At the moment and for the foreseeable it's highly unlikely the Gov. will have any interest or time to make changes.  Small mercies.

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1 hour ago, ds1 said:

Well when I was younger I put my money where my mouth was and moved to CZ - best thing I ever did. A large part of that was due to U.K. restrictions on firearms. 

The worst thing that I did not do was moving to the USA when I had the opportunity (before moving to CZ).

Point is find a place in the world where you are happy as you will never change the system in your lifetime. I got it a bit wrong with CZ as I did not foresee it becoming part of the EU at the time. At least in the USA it is so diverse that you can find a place that is more  likely to meet your lifestyle / values / beliefs and freedoms so that you do not feel that you are forced to comply with draconian values that you do not believe in.

I'm with you there. I'm 32 at the moment and my company has 2 sites in the US (One Texas and the other NC). If I ever got the opportunity I'd be sure not to pass it up to get over there, not just for the extra shooting / guns to be had but for the vast variety of landscapes that would be closer to home and freedom to wild camp and get out into the wilderness more etc! I absolutely despise that wild camping is technically illegal in all of England and Wales and sometimes just tolerated for 1 night. The US just seems a better nation for outdoorsy types.

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4 hours ago, Popsbengo said:

Firearms law in the UK is a mess, we all know that and agree I think.  The problem is any decent attempt to review and replace the mess could only result in yet more restrictions I believe.

Best it's left well alone. At the moment and for the foreseeable it's highly unlikely the Gov. will have any interest or time to make changes.  Small mercies.

I'd agree 100% Thre is a increasing feeling that shooting (control of vermin) is somehow endangering the countryside and life and limb or ordinary folk. There is also a growing concern that people with guns are a danger to themselves and the wider public, These restrictions (and keeping everyone safe) is  becoming difficult to manage. As more and more rules are defined it's becoming more and more expensive to enforce. Now in Scotland the Police 'request' that you inform them when (and where) you are out 'shooting'. Common sense is fast being replaced by rules which often don't refect the circumstance to which they are applied. The Health and Safety brigade did make a difference but weren't able to stop. Micro analysing any and every situation that their over imaginations could conjour up the rules have now become in practical terms restrictive (IMO). There are far more dangers out there than those caused by the shooting community.

Of 'wild camping', it's the few that are causing the damage. Up in Scotland there is no 'trspass law' so you can effectively camp anywhere. Hordes do around the shore of the Lochs and the mess they leave behind is disgraceful * more and more of these areas now have local bye-laws that prohibit overnight stays. Around Ayr and up on the NW coast carparks and laybys, once the breeding ground of campervans, are now patroled by Police enforcing the no-overnight rule. We live on a crowded island, there are still some open spaces but nothing like there is in the US.

REF: linky

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The clue is in the word "hordes"...............the population density here is much higher than in the US or Europe, (with one notable exception, Malta.), and we have comparatively little "wild" country left.

Pete

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22 hours ago, gazzarM1 said:

I have to confess that I think our gun laws are a complete arse....I have had a ticket since the mid seventies and the laws have got ever stricter and our country less safe.

Hungerford robbed us of full bore semi autos The lies of Dunblane deprived 64000 pistol shooters of sport and in some instances people’s livelihoods with a lot of evidence put under a 100 year disclosure order why?

Look it up ...a mountain of skullduggery afoot there...Why the absolute micro management? Why can you not freely buy and sell your own property within agreed limits?why the need to sell a rifle you already own and then have to wait god knows how long to get another similar?

The system stinks.....not interested in a discussion on this as people will probably disagree citing fairness and consideration of public safety etc.My views are founded on 50 plus years of shooting and a fac/shotgun cert holder for 40 plus years...I have been lucky and owned some tasty toys over the years but alas no more.

we are I do believe participants in a sport that has been on the retreat for decades...

Gazzar has it dead right!

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I lived briefly in the United States, but found that the culture there is actually very conformist - and that was California! There are rules, and if you break the rules, you pay the penalty. If you do not have all the pieces of paper in place, you do not pass 'go'. In the UK, by contrast, there is a grey fuzzy area between the black and the white, some room for negotiation, some recognition that it is the principle that is important rather than the details. So I came back to the UK. 

That said, I live in an area of the Scottish Borders that is very remote, despite it being a mile from the border with England. There is no mobile phone reception. The skies are some of the darkest in the UK. If I want to go outside my back door and shoot off some piece of ordnance, there is no-one near enough to complain.

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On 4/21/2020 at 8:51 AM, phoenix said:

...in the USA, in the same circumstances, they panic buy guns!!...entirely irrational reaction

Bruce

"At least four states in the U.S. have started to release inmates from their jails to protect vulnerable inmates as coronavirus infections have begun to appear from within."

https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-starts-release-inmates-coronavirus

"The Seattle coronavirus crime data is staggeringly high. As of Friday April 3, burglary cases were up 87% over the previous 28 days..."

https://mynorthwest.com/1802378/rantz-seattle-crime-up-after-coronavirus/

maximus otter

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That (Maximus above) in spite of ready access to guns - not an overly effective deterrent then ?

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6 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

That (Maximus above) in spite of ready access to guns - not an overly effective deterrent then ?

1. Roughly 60% of US households don't own guns.

2. Fire extinguishers don't "deter" fire, but they make it considerably easier to deal with.

maximus otter

 

 

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Pops

I believe burglary does not have you present so gun or no gun makes no difference.

More of a live and let live attitude compared to UK/Europe’s (ineffective) nanny state.

Lived in the US for 5 years, felt safer there than here and witnessed better response from police in various situations. 

Did not think much of California the few times I’ve been there, but did not live in that state for any duration  so hard to judge / make sound comment. Each State is very different.

T

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First off, California is not really a good representative of the US, broadly.  I know, I live here (southern California, aka "SoCal").  The rules here are geared more towards what I saw in the UK (conflicting, contradictory and nonsensical "feel good" laws that accomplish nothing), and are pretty non-typical of most other states.  It is very clique'ish and peer pressure is very prevalent (as noted above).  It's more of a herd mentality out here.

Texas is probably close to more what the US typically is like, but with the exception that most land there is owned privately.  Wyoming, Montana and Idaho tend to be more "Free and Liberty oriented", where everyone tends to do what ever they want (within reason), so long as they aren't infringing someone else's basic rights.  Don't get me wrong, it comes with it's own challenges, but I prefer it that way.  But, with freedom and liberty comes personal responsibility.  Everyone is typically armed.  As such, things can (and often do) get resolved on their own, by the individuals themselves.  Sometimes that can get out of hand...but that is what you have if you want freedom and liberty.  These three states also have massive amounts of public land (a significant part of Idaho is national forest, open to anyone to hunt, hike or fish if they have a license).  No nanny state there.  But with that said, people step off into the wilderness and are never heard from again, all the time.  It happens, but that's their responsibility to be safe, and have to deal with whatever they run into, on their own.  They'll be no one to ask for help, or will there be expectation of any help.  If you can live with that, then the US (and it's wide open spaces) will fit you well in these states.   But if you're looking for a specific standard to which everyone will live...then not so much.

I recall driving down a road with "Andrew" one year, and going past a dirt road off the highway, laden with all manner of anti-semitic and Nazi signs plastered all over the fence posts.  I looked over and got the "Yeah, the guy's a whacko, but he keeps to himself look", and a shrug.  That's the kind of freedom we're talking about; you do you, just don't mess with me.  <shrug>  Some can't accept that...

As to the "roughly 60% of US homes don't own guns"...yeah that's true.  But you have to remember, more than half the US population live in the large cities (which typically are not gun friendly at all, nor do they have access to facilities to use them, typically).   Also, while the number of households with guns have declined, the number owned by the households has increased dramatically.  We still have something like 3 guns for every person in the US owned by 40% of the households.  Think about that for a second.  Add to that that the most popular rifle is...the AR-15.  In the US, only the receiver is controlled (not the barrel) and we have no proofing requirements.  As such, the modularity of the AR has made it so receivers (made cheaply on any CNC mill) are incredibly cheap and prolific, and the barrels and such can be shipped directly to your door, for assembly.  AR's are every where (hell I own more than half a dozen myself in various configurations and calibers).  Guns are literally part of our culture, just like a car or bicycle or a fishing pole.

 

As to burglaries, people often are at home.  In fact, our liberal media chooses to minimize it's reporting (as does yours), but the Federal government does track it.  It's hard to say how many burglaries have been stopped/prevented with a firearm, since it's impossible to estimate things that never happen, or are resolved without the  police ever being called, but the estimates range from as low as 80,000 a year, all the way up to 2M a year (crimes, not just burglaries).  I personally have had to brandish a weapon twice while living in a not so nice neighbor years ago.  <shrug>  Perps/thugs get shot all the time doing stupid that which promotes growth and vigour thinking they've chanced upon some prey, only to realize what they actually happened on, was a wolf in sheep's clothing. 

Think about it.  The US has been at war for the last 15+ years.  We have a lot of young men and women who know how to use a firearm, and see what happens when there is no law.  And they all are familiar with the AR-15.  Never mind our access to military grade NV and thermal gear (google NV hog hunting on YouTube).


The introduction of IDPA, 3-Gun and PRS style shooting has only made these guns even more popular .  And with popularity, comes the ability to make a profit, and so ranges, training, products; they're all increasing every year here.  I think we will see (in retrospect) that the buying and trianing of firearms is actually increasing dramatically in the US.

 

Finally (sorry for the long diatribe), as stated above, most of the US is a pretty safe place.  The gang bangers and violence that the MSM and EU media love to highlight about the US is mostly over blown.  It's like thinking Israel is constantly getting bombed or having rockets dropped on it.  It does happen, but it is still a  relatively rare thing.  The US is a huge country, that I think most Uk citizens don't truly understand (the size difference).  I could drive from London, all the way up to Northern Scotland in about 12 hrs (when I lived there).  That's how long it takes to drive across Texas (east/west), at 80mph.  And that is one (albeit large) state.  Remember, the US covers 4 time zones, and goes from basically middle England down through a third of Africa.  It's huge, and as such there is a very wide variety of cultures and ways of life here.  

 

At any rate, sorry for the epistle.  Must be the covid lock down driving me batty. :D

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The problem with democracy is all those other fools making laws I don't agree with !   The alternatives are worse.

 

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I have had the good fortune to spend a couple of years of my life in North Carolina .I have family there and it is a very gun friendly state...I have had access to some great shooting with all kinds of equipment(it helps that a good friend of many years is an editor of a couple of gun mags!)and I am a member of a gun club in the Raleigh area and to be honest I can’t ever remember feeling unsafe and have been all over that State for the last 25 years or more...point being that a proliferation of firearms does not equal a tsunami of crime. Sure there are rules and if you were to fall foul of them then you have trouble but as stated in my earlier post there is none of the micromanagement we have here ,Ibelieve the many grey areas here are designed to trip up the unwary rather than serve the protection of the public.

All of the many shooting friends I have over there ,some serving Law enforcement officers and a couple ex military think our laws here are mental....who would disagree ?

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