King of 2 Miles

[Scotch_egg]

20 minutes ago, Ronin said:

416 Barrat looks appealing

I have never looked up the .416 Barret. A quick google reveals some spectacular ballistics. 
 

 

The .416 Barrett uses a .395 grain solid brass spitzer bullet designed with very low drag. Approximately 204 grains of propellent will propel this .416” dia. bullet at approximately 3,300 fps with 9,551 ft.-lbs. of energy

[Popsbengo]

32 minutes ago, Scotch_egg said:

I have never looked up the .416 Barret. A quick google reveals some spectacular ballistics. 
 

 

The .416 Barrett uses a .395 grain solid brass spitzer bullet designed with very low drag. Approximately 204 grains of propellent will propel this .416” dia. bullet at approximately 3,300 fps with 9,551 ft.-lbs. of energy

Very capable but very expensive!

[VarmLR]

I'm afraid most of these long range rifles are beyond my more modest budget constraints as at roughly £5 per "bang" and lots of practice needed it's something that would benefit from a team approach with sponsorship otherwise it's a wealthy man's sport!

I was quite impressed how some at the Ko2M held roughly half a minute of angle at a mile.  That was extraordinary shooting when you consider what even slight differences of wind or even cloud cover can do.   I felt very smug whilst shooting at Warminster once with the 6.5 putting most of my 10 shot string into around a 7 or 8 inch group until the cloud cover came rolling in and threw the next few shots all over the place and that was only at 900m! 

Like Baldie though I was a bit mystified when some of the Ko2M shooters were told "Low, lift 2 MOA" or similar that they simply put the next few bullets exactly into the same place and when interviewed after blamed it on "it's a new rig..trying to get used to it" type of excuse.  Spotting that that distance I think might, in that heat, be made more awkward by mirage but they ought to have links to a local camera and a screen at the shooting position with one person monitoring that and one on a scope.  It's all too easy to become an arm chair critic though!

I get a lot of enjoyment out of shooting at a small Gong at 600 yds or similar at a small fraction of the cost but it would be great to try a days LR at a mile.   Perhaps once the lockdown has finished'...

[Popsbengo]

I think one of the challenges here in the UK is spotting misses in heather or grass - almost impossible if Eskdalemuir is anything to go buy.  The mile plate has at least a gravel bank below so it's possible to shoot at a large white stone and calculate from there.  If you're on for elevation and the wind takes the shot well off it's a guess as to where it's gone most times.  The 2000yd & 2000m plates are almost impossible unless your shots are really close - and I agree with Baldie's comment, it's perfectly possible to get back on in the 3sec between bang and hit - it's just easier if there's a spotter (who can call properly).

It's very expensive but there's nothing quite like the feeling of aiming at a hanging plastic milk bottle (with windage) and hitting it second shot at a mile 😊  Worth the £500 plus travel for the day....

don't tell the wife...

[baldie]

7 hours ago, dorg said:

I am in the process of building a 37xc, I value your opinion Baldie of what calibre you would go for if you needed something larger than a 338 lap mag. I looked at costs and the 37xc was the cheapest option, I'm thinking this is the largest calibre you can load in a standard sized press. I think speed of shooting is the main reason shooters were not spotting their own shots, but then again Mark Philips was doing his own spotting.

Had a good chat to John who has a 33xc and he mentioned they also do a 41XC [408 ] on the same case.

David Tubb is a clever guy, all his big XC calibers work on a .338 bolt, they are just necked up to the various bullet sizes.

Personally, I think the 41XC may just be too much bullet for the case capacity, but the 33 and 37 should be quite spectacular, and probably more than enough for any range in the UK, though Valhalla could stretch that a bit.

Personally, I would have gone 33XC [and still might, once this virus crap is over ] 

There is an awful lot of good 338 bullets about, in both normal and monolithic.

I,m gonna keep my powder dry at the mo. We were displaying the new AI AX50 at the show, and it will be available at some point in .408 and .375 Cheytac....it piqued my interest somewhat, because I dont want a .50.

Its a difficult decision I guess for most of us. You have to balance the cost, against possible usage I suppose, which is the beauty of the 338, I can use mine a lot if I wish.

[Shendy]

1 hour ago, baldie said:

Had a good chat to John who has a 33xc and he mentioned they also do a 41XC [408 ] on the same case.

David Tubb is a clever guy, all his big XC calibers work on a .338 bolt, they are just necked up to the various bullet sizes.

Personally, I think the 41XC may just be too much bullet for the case capacity, but the 33 and 37 should be quite spectacular, and probably more than enough for any range in the UK, though Valhalla could stretch that a bit.

Personally, I would have gone 33XC [and still might, once this virus crap is over ] 

There is an awful lot of good 338 bullets about, in both normal and monolithic.

I,m gonna keep my powder dry at the mo. We were displaying the new AI AX50 at the show, and it will be available at some point in .408 and .375 Cheytac....it piqued my interest somewhat, because I dont want a .50.

Its a difficult decision I guess for most of us. You have to balance the cost, against possible usage I suppose, which is the beauty of the 338, I can use mine a lot if I wish.

Have said for a while why didnt AI do something between 338 and 50. 408/416 would be brilliant. Would also as said be enough for any range in the UK. 

[Ronin]

If I were building a rifle for such a competition (and I don’t know what restrictions are for rests etc) but it would be something along the lines of a single shot action in a bench rest or f class stock using quality front test and rear bag 

 

Action would most definitely be a Barnard P 

338 cal is defiantly a contender especially with the better solids achieving BC of 1 or higher 

Gain twist barrel perhaps too 

Ivy mount or Charlie tarac for the scope 

Its entirely possible to shoot a mile with a standard gun - 338 Lm and decent scope will do it and wasn’t being done at Warcop ten years ago

Wind is the issue

 

Two Miles - wind and load quality become massive factors let alone issues with spotter shooter comms and ability to shoot 

[Popsbengo]

22 minutes ago, Ronin said:

If I were building a rifle for such a competition (and I don’t know what restrictions are for rests etc) but it would be something along the lines of a single shot action in a bench rest or f class stock using quality front test and rear bag 

 

Action would most definitely be a Barnard P 

338 cal is defiantly a contender especially with the better solids achieving BC of 1 or higher 

Gain twist barrel perhaps too 

Ivy mount or Charlie tarac for the scope 

Its entirely possible to shoot a mile with a standard gun - 338 Lm and decent scope will do it and wasn’t being done at Warcop ten years ago

Wind is the issue

 

Two Miles - wind and load quality become massive factors let alone issues with spotter shooter comms and ability to shoot 

+1 on Barnard PL no magazine or ejector.

[gazzarM1]

Was watching an episode of K2m today and Kelly McMillan was describing a rig in relation to the amount of weight ,recoil etc that needs to be involved with the design of one of his stocks .He was saying action weighing 8 pounds and 50 mm in diameter a 38 inch barrel an all up weight of around 38 pounds! Some rig that! 

[baldie]

I remember painting a Cheytac Intervention many years back. I had to have 3 goes at blasting the action, it was that heavy, I couldn't hold it up, in the blasting booth long enough!

What struck me about that rifle, was the massive tolerances it was built too. The bolt didn't have thou's of clearance.....they were millimetres !

Guess what......made no difference to how it shot.

To be honest, looking at the vids, they all seem to be bigger F class rigs. Which leaves me cold. If it cant be shot from a normal bipod and bean bag...I aint interested.

 

[gazzarM1]

Couldn’t call those bipods normal. Look more like the undercarriage of an airbus !

 

[No i deer]

Them rifles are ugly full stop so a ugly bipod suits them 😁

[gazzarM1]

Got to agree on the size thing.....at what point does a rifle cease to be and become an artillery piece ?

Methinks there is a way to go on wringing the best out of 338 ? A lot more affordable in terms of kit and running costs....must admit I would like to get my mitts on one of those adjustable 3O0 moa ....rails optics warehouse have them...a mere £530.....What is the most tilt Tier One manufacture ?

[No i deer]

There's several 338 lap mag variants that may float your boat but I'd imagine it gets complicated and more expensive for little gain..

I will look into it.

I was instantly hooked after my first few shots on a 338 lap mag at 1800yds 😁.

I didn't get around to getting one in the end as I changed direction.

 

[The Gun Pimp]

1 hour ago, baldie said:

I remember painting a Cheytac Intervention many years back. I had to have 3 goes at blasting the action, it was that heavy, I couldn't hold it up, in the blasting booth long enough!

What struck me about that rifle, was the massive tolerances it was built too. The bolt didn't have thou's of clearance.....they were millimetres !

Guess what......made no difference to how it shot.

To be honest, looking at the vids, they all seem to be bigger F class rigs. Which leaves me cold. If it cant be shot from a normal bipod and bean bag...I aint interested.

 

Dave,

It has to be shot from a normal bi-pod - new rules state that the bi-pod must be foldable within 10 seconds and be no wider than 8 inches when folded.  The Light class has an all up weight of 25lbs - with scope and bi-pod - not much heavier than a 338 AI?  Back bag is your choice.

[baldie]

6 hours ago, The Gun Pimp said:

Dave,

It has to be shot from a normal bi-pod - new rules state that the bi-pod must be foldable within 10 seconds and be no wider than 8 inches when folded.  The Light class has an all up weight of 25lbs - with scope and bi-pod - not much heavier than a 338 AI?  Back bag is your choice.

Excellent.

That will promote marksmanship, rather than reliance on hardware.

[ds1]

My 2p, I had an AW 50 bmg and have an AXMC 338. The 50bmg was a complete PIA, too heavy to cart around, ammunition too heavy and a pain to reload - dedicated reloading kit. Expensive to feed unless you use crappy mil surplus to which there is no point. The must have related kit for ELR is also very expensive- Vectronix laser, top grade spotting scope and tripod. Ivy mounts....the list goes on. 
 

OTOH the 338 can be used very nicely out to 1500m and you can carry it, shoot it as any other normal rifle including ( kneeling, standing, sitting). It is suitable for  everything from tactical to LR / ELR with readily available quality reloading components from Berger and Lapua  It is just much more versatile and much easier to live with.

[John MH]

Get a Tubb ATR with Charlie Tarac in 33XC and you are ready to go, less than 25 lbs all up weight. Must be more than one of these over here.

 

[meles meles]

This may be of interest to some of you

https://accurateshooter.net/pix/33xc37xcdata.pdf

 

 

 

[No i deer]

Seems like John is well ahead of the game..!!

[terryh]

Gents

There will be an article in Target shooter re. a recent  trip to the French 2 mile range.

A basic conclusion - the 33XC will probably do everything most folks want, shot very well out past 2500m.

If you want to be competitive at 2 miles then something 'special' is required. The 375CT performed exceptionally well

Your optic and ballistic solver also features in a competitive rig, TARAC or purpose designed such as Genesis, the AB (when you know how to set it up) worked.

T

[Gandy]

Would be interested to know the combined elevation through mounts and sights for the 2mile target. 
 

Also I wonder when something becomes indirect rather than direct fire. 
 

It’s a hell of an achievement to be hitting things as far as people are doing. 

[terryh]

Gandy

...37 mil, NB actual value that hit the 2 mile target (not a predicted/imaginary value 😉  )

 

[Shendy]

338lm 300gr 2 miles 282.75 moa

[Gandy]

So that’s just over 2 degrees of angle ish for 37 mil? And just shy of 5 degrees for 283 MOA if my maths is anything like. 
 

That is a hell of a lot flatter than I imagined for some reason, certainly what I would call direct fire.