new to reloading

[ontoproofer]

hello

I've got a 223 with a 1 in 9 twist which is bang on with Hornady 75grain eld match. Ive bought some 75g bullet heads and was wondering if somebody has a recipe with which powder and where to start ?

[miki]

Learn the right names for the components and buy a reloading manual  👍

A load needs to be developed, there is a lot of information of where to start on the powder manufacturers websites, Vhitavouri for example ,, https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=7 n

They show loads for 3 different 75gr bullets, with N140 and N540 being common to all. Your rifle is slightly different from anyone elses so thier loads may no be ideal in yours, they may even be dangerous. What powders can you get localy ?

[ontoproofer]

Hi Miki

I've got the Hornady 10th reloading manual and its got 17 different powders on 75g bullets 😮.

There's a couple of gun shops near me selling different powders i.e vhitavouri, alliant, Hodgdon and reload Swiss 

[Deker]

I can't help with a load for the 75gr Hornady but I use 77gr SMK in mine and found N140 wouldn't get decent speeds with the heavier bullets as the powder was compressed with 22.4gr in the case so I couldn't get up to the next node (just over 2400 fps but great groups), I've used both RS40 & RS52 with much better results (22.8gr giving 2830 fps and still not compressed), there's probably a Vhit equivalent but I'm not sure what it is and I can get my hands on RS powders easier.

The numbers above aren't any use for the load that you're developing for BUT you can see the capacity\speed difference between powders, Reload Swiss has a good website with their load guide.

https://www.reload-swiss.com/en/reload_swiss/service_2/index.php

 

 

[miki]

11 hours ago, ontoproofer said:

Hi Miki

I've got the Hornady 10th reloading manual and its got 17 different powders on 75g bullets 😮.

There's a couple of gun shops near me selling different powders i.e vhitavouri, alliant, Hodgdon and reload Swiss 

@ontoproofer excellent of the book. The advice @Deker gives is good tpp (and based on real experience, wheras I don't have a rifle chambered in .223) RL52 (Reload Swiss) is a good modern powder. the nearest equivalent in Vhit is N540 *

A 75gr bullet is a heavy lump for a .223 size case isn't it ? Why that big ? A 55/60-gr would give you more speed and a flatter trajectory (and a bit less recoil too i'd imagine).  A 55 should get around  or above 3300fps where the 75 is crawling along (haha) @2800(ish) you should get a wider choice of powders for the lighter/smaller bullet too.

Have you tried any other bullets ?

*REF: Burn rate link

 

[ontoproofer]

1 hour ago, Deker said:

I can't help with a load for the 75gr Hornady but I use 77gr SMK in mine and found N140 wouldn't get decent speeds with the heavier bullets as the powder was compressed with 22.4gr in the case so I couldn't get up to the next node (just over 2400 fps but great groups), I've used both RS40 & RS52 with much better results (22.8gr giving 2830 fps and still not compressed), there's probably a Vhit equivalent but I'm not sure what it is and I can get my hands on RS powders easier.

The numbers above aren't any use for the load that you're developing for BUT you can see the capacity\speed difference between powders, Reload Swiss has a good website with their load guide.

https://www.reload-swiss.com/en/reload_swiss/service_2/index.php

 

 

Hi Deker thanks for the input when you look at the reloading manual its maximum load of powder which I don't want to be near is only giving it between 2600 - 2700 fps but when you buy the bullets which Hornady make there flying along at 2930 fps. The rs website doesn't support that Hornady bullet !

Cheers ontoproofer

[ontoproofer]

52 minutes ago, miki said:

@ontoproofer excellent of the book. The advice @Deker gives is good tpp (and based on real experience, wheras I don't have a rifle chambered in .223) RL52 (Reload Swiss) is a good modern powder. the nearest equivalent in Vhit is N540 *

A 75gr bullet is a heavy lump for a .223 size case isn't it ? Why that big ? A 55/60-gr would give you more speed and a flatter trajectory (and a bit less recoil too i'd imagine).  A 55 should get around  or above 3300fps where the 75 is crawling along (haha) @2800(ish) you should get a wider choice of powders for the lighter/smaller bullet too.

Have you tried any other bullets ?

*REF: Burn rate link

 

Hi Miki

yes big lump for a 223 but I get v bulls at 600 yards and have even hit a gong at 1000 yards lol.

The rifle doesn't stabilise 60 gr bullets or less I think that's more for a rifle with a 1 -12 twist

Ive been looking on the viht site today and it recommends the n540 for those bullet weights so hopefully happy days ! 

[miki]

1 hour ago, ontoproofer said:

Hi Miki

yes big lump for a 223 but I get v bulls at 600 yards and have even hit a gong at 1000 yards lol.

The rifle doesn't stabilise 60 gr bullets or less I think that's more for a rifle with a 1 -12 twist

Ive been looking on the viht site today and it recommends the n540 for those bullet weights so hopefully happy days ! 

Excellent. The twist rate nominally effects the stability relative to length. Obviously the heavier the bullet is for a given cross section/diameter the longer it is. 1:12 has problems with the longer but I don't think the faster twist should effect a shorter, in the same way (more reading req  🤔)

There is a point where the higher weight and BC will give more distance but I don't think the bullet is still supersonic over more than 600 so surely must be tumbling at that range ?

REF: accurateshooter linky

 

[ontoproofer]

28 minutes ago, miki said:

Excellent. The twist rate nominally effects the stability relative to length. Obviously the heavier the bullet is for a given cross section/diameter the longer it is. 1:12 has problems with the longer but I don't think the faster twist should effect a shorter, in the same way (more reading req  🤔)

There is a point where the higher weight and BC will give more distance but I don't think the bullet is still supersonic over more than 600 so surely must be tumbling at that range ?

REF: accurateshooter linky

 

At 600 yards its still over 1800 fps 😀

At 900 yards its okay at about 1320 fps and the scope maxed out

At 1000 yards its crawling along at 1163 fps

Ive had lots of people say its too heavy for a 1 - 9 twist and it should be 1 - 8 twist but it seems to work okay with 75 gr and not quite so good with 69 gr sierra's

[VarmLR]

RS50 is what I use withy 77grn TMKs and I get good velocities with that, certainly better than with N140 which has a similar energy, for some reason.  You might struggle to stabilise a 75gr bullet with a 1/9.  My 1/8 is marginal with some 80grn bullets but 77smks work well.  Depending on the ranges you intend shooting you might be better off trying the 69TMKs and see which shoots better for you.

[VarmLR]

4 hours ago, ontoproofer said:

Hi Miki

yes big lump for a 223 but I get v bulls at 600 yards and have even hit a gong at 1000 yards lol.

The rifle doesn't stabilise 60 gr bullets or less I think that's more for a rifle with a 1 -12 twist

Ive been looking on the viht site today and it recommends the n540 for those bullet weights so hopefully happy days ! 

Not true!

I use a tighter twist than you and mine shoots everything from 45 to 77grn perfectly well.  My go to vermin bullets are 55 and 60grn respectively.  Yours should shoot 60grn fine with the right load.

Bear in mind that the use of double base powders like N540 or RS52 will wear your barrel out much quicker than single base loads if you are shooting anywhere near the top end loads.  Even mildly warm loads with N540 can have a surprisingly detrimental barrel life effect on some barrels.  I have shot mine with 77grn bullets to 1000yds using single base RS50 just fine but can't claim it's anything like competitive as it just isn;t a high enough BC bullet for 1000yds.  80 to 90grn dedicated LR bullets are better suited for the 223 at 1000 if you want more consistent results.  I've found even at 600yds that the 69tmk can be very badly blown about in relatively light winds.

[MarinePMI]

24.3 grs of XBR-8208 and a 75gr ELDM nets 2940fps out of my Tikka Varminter.

Varget (I believe RS50 is pretty close to it) is another go to powder here in the US for 75gr bullets in the .223.

[ontoproofer]

Hi varmlr

when I first got the rifle about 5 years ago I took it up the road to the tunnel range to set it up and had a box of both 60gr and 62gr bullets and it was spitting them all over a4 piece of paper but as soon as I put 69gr in it tightened right up and with 75gr was cloverleaf which was happy days until I realised how expensive they are lol. The distance usually is 300 or 600 yards and only shot out to 1000 yards with it because my mate was trying the same with his 223 😁. I have thought about reloading for some time now and with not working at the minute have ordered a load of reloading gear 😀 and was amazed at all the different powders available !

[ontoproofer]

Cheers Marinepm1

I will see if I can get that powder into the local gun shop if not I can get hold of varget 👍

[miki]

19 minutes ago, ontoproofer said:

Hi varmlr

when I first got the rifle about 5 years ago I took it up the road to the tunnel range to set it up and had a box of both 60gr and 62gr bullets and it was spitting them all over a4 piece of paper but as soon as I put 69gr in it tightened right up and with 75gr was cloverleaf which was happy days until I realised how expensive they are lol. The distance usually is 300 or 600 yards and only shot out to 1000 yards with it because my mate was trying the same with his 223 😁. I have thought about reloading for some time now and with not working at the minute have ordered a load of reloading gear 😀 and was amazed at all the different powders available !

 

It's not that the 75's were (exclusively) right for the rifle, it was that the combination of the load and the 62 and the 69gr bullets weren't. Once you find a node that results in the bullet leaving the barrel when it's not flapping about you will get tight groups from any weight of bullet (unless it won't stabilise with the twist). That's the whole point of reloading, finding that sweet spot where all the ducks line up.

Lots of different powders, yes. They all have a specific characteristic but the key is to find one that generates enough pressure to get the bullet moving and exiting the barrel safely and at a speed that meets the needs/requirements of why you pulled the trigger in the first place.

Slow burning powders suit larger diameter chambers longer barrels, and heavier bullets than fast burning powders ..... (a bit simple but true).

Are you using an internal ballistics tool (like GRT or QL) to look at this in more detail ? - it's not neccesary but I find it quite heplful. All in all the powder/bullet manufacturers have it right. If you get the powders they reccomend and 'work up a load' you will get superior accuracy than from any 'ready rolled' ammunition', and it's much more satisfying 

[miki]

1 hour ago, MarinePMI said:

Varget (I believe RS50 is pretty close to it) is another go to powder here in the US for 75gr bullets in the .223.

I don't think Vargent is 'REACH' (Regulation (EC) 1907/2006 concerning the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation, and restriction of CHemicals) compliant so (if it is available) it won''t be for long ...

Working up a load with a powder you may not be able to find again is not ideal ...

[ontoproofer]

I get my data from either the Hornady ballistics app or strelok. I can see already that reloading is going to be addictive 😀

[MarinePMI]

4 minutes ago, miki said:

I don't think Vargent is 'REACH' (Regulation (EC) 1907/2006 concerning the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation, and restriction of CHemicals) compliant so (if it is available) it won''t be for long ...

Working up a load with a powder you may not be able to find again is not ideal ...

No, I don't think it is available in the UK anymore, hence mentioning RS50...

[ontoproofer]

👍

[miki]

27 minutes ago, MarinePMI said:

No, I don't think it is available in the UK anymore, hence mentioning RS50...

Yes. sorry I missed that - I though RS50 was more for the 30 and larger callibers RS Charts

[MarinePMI]

So was Varget when it was first released in '96.  Turned out to be a very versatile powder (more than I think they imagined). I remember using it for .223 when it first came out thinking "Well damn, that works pretty good." after someone at the range telling me about it (the internet wasn't still widely used back then).

[ontoproofer]

xbr8208 is on the reach list as carcinogeric in uk

[geek]

I am using Vihtavuori N140 (25grs [works fine in my rifle, don't know about yours]), Lapua brass and Sierra bullets 69gr in a Remington 700 in an MDT chassis and the image is of a 3 shoot group at 100 yards (the rifle has shot 26 rounds so far, so may improve).

[Catch-22]

On 4/15/2020 at 10:21 PM, ontoproofer said:

hello

I've got a 223 with a 1 in 9 twist which is bang on with Hornady 75grain eld match. Ive bought some 75g bullet heads and was wondering if somebody has a recipe with which powder and where to start ?

To the OP

Many powders offered by Hodgdon, aren’t REACH compliant and aren’t available in the UK any more. It’s not worth working up loads if you see any on the gun shop shelf because you won’t get any more and you’ll need to start load development all over a again.

Thr advice you’ve had about a decent reloading book to help you understand the basic fundamentals of reloading, particularly the dangers associated with cocking it up (which is easy to do), is a great first start.

Beyond that, I’d really be looking for load recipes for .223 with 69g, 75g and 77g loads. I wouldn’t worry too much of you don’t see a recipe for the 75g ELDM exclusively, find one for any 75g (focus on the HPBT, not soft-point hunting bullets) and use that as a basis. Start at least 15% lower than their max charge (I normally start around the middle charge) and work up safely in 0.2g or 0.3g increments. The .223 case is small, and little changes can make a big difference when getting near max.

Focus on recipes that use Vihtavuori or Reload Swiss (RS) powders as they’re the most commonly available, and generally cheaper, than IMR or Hodgdon alternatives. You can get Hodgdon CFE-223 powder here but I think it’s expensive. But up to you. The Viht and RS websites have good load data. I find they’re a little anaemic but they’re good and safe to get you started.

  

[miki]

13 hours ago, ontoproofer said:

I get my data from either the Hornady ballistics app or strelok. I can see already that reloading is going to be addictive 😀

Both of those are 'external' I was talking about 'internal' ..... yes it is addictive.

GRT linky  (free)

QL linky   (£140)