Where are all the hardcore Varmint hunters gone ?

[outlanda]

5 hours ago, Kevgun said:

I Just recently purchased a Tikka CTR 24" 8 twist .223 for this very task, unfortunately i can't use it, i haven't even thought about what to run through it, so if anybody has any ideas on a good place to start for a varminting load please enlighten me.

i have in stock already 

40 gr Vmax

50 gr Vmax

i am undecided what i should get in the 60 - 80 gr range any suggestions ?

Powder wise i have

N120

N135

N140

N160

RS52

i see no problems with Varminting stories, that's why i joined this Sight, i thought the clue was in the name, however it does seem to be more target shooting than varminting, which is a shame,

my take on it is, if you don't like it , don't read it scroll on by, luckily we are not all the same. 

i have received good info and help on here in the past from VarmLR we both run a Tac a1 and he helped with developing a decent load with 139 scenars.

anyway that's me.

 

Kev

 

Hi Kev

I have the same rifle and I know you wont be disappointed. Mine likes either 50gr v max or sierra 50gr blitz king with H4895 which I have just used my last and there is no more. Trying to find a load with N133 with similar results now.

+1 for more on varminting with .223 or 20 cal or dare I say .17HMR. These are the cals I use.

Steve

 

[Bob57]

About a month after saving the fallow fawn from two foxes a similar story,

I was sitting in a hiseat in the dark waiting for a fox when i heard one yapping away, coming my way, two fields away in front of me, to have it go straight into the plantation on my left, I had to keep looking through the thermal spotter to find it in the narrow strip of tree's when it popped out half way along level with me, as I veiwed it through the drone it was sitting back on looking into the tree's slightly arched over with its tail straight up flagging from side to side as a set of eyes shone to its right, just inside the tree's, I thought it was another fox until a muntjac showed very annoyed at the fox, watched them for awhile, the fox wasn't backing down, so i sent it a 20cal parcel 😀

Next day when I told the keeper and said i bet fox was after its young un, he said he's got a pic of a muntjac with small fawn on his trail cam in there 😃, I wonder how many deer fawns foxes eat, must be a fair amount!!

Shooting with night vision most of the time now is a real eye opener as you get to see these sort of things happening sometimes before taking the shot, which you don't have time to see when shooting with a lamp!!

[KABOOM]

On 4/5/2020 at 3:19 AM, One on top of two said:

As per title .

are there any varmint hunters out there . I’m not talking about some who shoots the odd magpie with a lucky shot at 250 m 

I’m talking  about The type that takes the time and effort to be effective , the type that actually  does there homework on there quarry and then goes into the field with a properly set up rifle and all the associated kit and the skill set to be able to use it to it max . 
 

I know back in the early part of 2000 - 2008  there was a bit of a following  , a lot of people had some fantastic set ups and there where quite a few very proficient hunters out there  And many accounts of peoples forays .Even in some of the magazines. but seems to have dwindled away , I don’t believe it’s an ethical call as there are as many people now game shooting and stalking As ever , maybe more ? Has it just gone out of fashion ? 

I have been a hunter for 40 yrs now and  cut my teeth as a pigeon shooter , which I still do today and find a very effective method of pest control , but many years ago I sort of fell into the varmint hunting scene as a means of increasing my effectiveness and found it to be a very successful Combination at different times of the year and over certain  Types of crops .

my first varmint rifle was a Sako L579  .220 swift , then the mandatory .22-250 And then the 243 ackley improved . And now days have gone back to the .223 

nowadays I don’t get as much time as I like to what with farm work , gamekeeperIng And crop protection for various farms . And of course our Horses , but I still have a great passion for the  long range surgical approach . And still try to spend as much time as I can to maintain my ability to deliver a Single clean ethical shot based Experience and the correct skill set NOT an inflated ego . 

so if there is still any of you still lurking away , show us what you got , what and how you go about it . Why you decided on the set up you have . 
 

I know your out there 🤔😁

 

 

 

Sorry I haven't a clue on pics but I will tell what I began with, Ruger M77MK2 All weather boat paddle stock.243, purchased for my son as a deer/pronghorn rifle, Next came the CZ550 22-250 vented stock heavy barrel, sage rat gun for me, jackrabbits if about. Followed by the Ruger No1V I .204 stainless laminate, sage rats and coyotes, intended to also allow me some lesser blast than the 22-250. Next was the Savage 17HMR Stainless laminate, wife's rifle, sage rats,  ground squirrels,  when the wind is calm will kill sage rats to 300 yds, not a great idea they die slow, at 200 quick kills.  So I then traded for a Savage 110 in .223 sage rats again or coyotes, superb shooter and rather ugly lol. Last was the Ruger Ranch rifle in .223 all purpose gun if coyotes or red fox, never fails to cycle, I feed it cheep Steelcase ammo as I ever find brass after ejection, solid 1.5 moa rifle I got lucky most of its cousins in the era wont do much under 4 inches. As is normal my brain faded and forgot my other 22-250, M98 Mauser action 30 inch barrel Lyman target Spot scope 10x30 external adjustments, spring loaded mounts double set triggers, impulse buy when I found it.The last owner probably shot benchrest with it based on stock design.Spectacular accuracy sage rats  are its target.  Some of these I carry on a sling and use sticks to steady, others a bench and machine rest , most have seen horrid weather all have been way over heated during a shoot for sage rats. I know it wont extend my barrel life but when targets abound FIRE!

[One on top of two]

I have another potential Half day on the rooks and crows tomorrow . Had a walk across the fields yesterday evening an the crows and rooks have been digging the beans up , have made a right mess of one long field ( about 750 m wide and just over 1K deep ) 

so I have decided to take a rifle with a bit more legs , also it’s a bit of a windy corridor , with swirling  wind so should be fun . 


 

 

[Kevgun]

Thanks everybody who replied, i have just ordered a selection of projectiles to test, load a few up at different charge weights and see whats what, when we can get back out.

[One on top of two]

3 minutes ago, Kevgun said:

Thanks everybody who replied, i have just ordered a selection of projectiles to test, load a few up at different charge weights and see whats what, when we can get back out.

Nice one Kev. Make sure you share your findings mate 👍

[Kevgun]

OK, will do, i'm going to try some 77 TMK'S they seem a popular choice and a few others as well.

[foxinmad]

18 hours ago, One on top of two said:

I have another potential Half day on the rooks and crows tomorrow . Had a walk across the fields yesterday evening an the crows and rooks have been digging the beans up , have made a right mess of one long field ( about 750 m wide and just over 1K deep ) 

so I have decided to take a rifle with a bit more legs , also it’s a bit of a windy corridor , with swirling  wind so should be fun . 


 

 

7

Nice, very similar to the one I use 👍 

[One on top of two]

2 hours ago, foxinmad said:

Nice, very similar to the one I use 👍 

Great minds 😂 👍

[One on top of two]

Well I never got time for any crow busting , however I did get myself a bunny wabbit 

here’s the vegan version 👍

 

One shot ... One kill .. sorry I mean dent . 

[VarmLR]

20 hours ago, Kevgun said:

OK, will do, i'm going to try some 77 TMK'S they seem a popular choice and a few others as well.

Nice one Kev.  They do shoot well.  I find them better than the 69TMKs in my own rifle but others find they're not as good as the 77SMKs for target.  I use RS52 with them and have some great results with that.

[Kevgun]

Cheers VarmLR, i have 3 kg of RS52, looking forward to having a tinker, at least i'll have plenty of time to do some reloading. if i can get it to shoot as well as my TAC A1 i'll be happy with that.

[One on top of two]

Another one here using RS 52 

[Kevgun]

Yes, i use it in my 22.250 and in my 6.5 Creedmoor with a 95 Vmax cracking varmint round when it's windy.

[Brummy Mark]

20 hours ago, One on top of two said:

Well I never got time for any crow busting , however I did get myself a bunny wabbit 

here’s the vegan version 👍

One shot ... One kill .. sorry I mean dent . 

Good skills there, nice target too. what round/load?

[One on top of two]

1 hour ago, Brummy Mark said:

Good skills there, nice target too. what round/load?

cheers mark 

143 grn ELD X  with RS 62 and Peterson LPB = 2800fps

[Alycidon]

On 4/6/2020 at 9:08 AM, bigyin said:

That was initial load development with n160 but just couldn’t get the velocity I wanted with it 

Try N150 then,   or N550,   I found that 150 was faster than 550,   this is not what the books suggest.    ( 20BR) ,

My advice is load for accuracy not speed,  nothing hit in the boiler room at 3000 or 4000 will not tell the difference.  

 

A

[cooter]

On 4/6/2020 at 4:16 PM, Kevgun said:

I Just recently purchased a Tikka CTR 24" 8 twist .223 for this very task, unfortunately i can't use it, i haven't even thought about what to run through it, so if anybody has any ideas on a good place to start for a varminting load please enlighten me.

i have in stock already 

40 gr Vmax

50 gr Vmax

i am undecided what i should get in the 60 - 80 gr range any suggestions ?

Powder wise i have

N120

 

 

50Grn VMax with N120 should work really, really well. 40 Grn VMax are also good but they didn't like being pushed fast through my 9" twist remmy, so don't go for speed.

[Alycidon]

Data on 223 and N120 is available free here:

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=7

Personally I would have said N120 is a bit fast for the caliber but you should be able to get away with in on the 40 gr VMax,

For the 50s etc I would deffo look for something slower like N133.   

Ideally you want a pretty full case,  (95% or so),  that way you get a uniform velocity, so a closer shot to shot velocity and thus a smaller group with less vertical dispersion. 

I would also recommend a look at Sierra Blitzking,   I use the 20 caliber 39s in a 20BR and 1 in 9,    hell of a good bullet,  holds together at over 4000 unlike the 40gr VMax.   But best accuracy as is often the case is way below top speed,  in my case about 3600.  

A

[Kevgun]

Thanks Everybody, I have N120 and N135, I’ll pick up some N133 when we are allowed out again.

[cooter]

15 hours ago, Alycidon said:

Data on 223 and N120 is available free here:

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=7

Personally I would have said N120 is a bit fast for the caliber but you should be able to get away with in on the 40 gr VMax,

For the 50s etc I would deffo look for something slower like N133.   

Ideally you want a pretty full case,  (95% or so),  that way you get a uniform velocity, so a closer shot to shot velocity and thus a smaller group with less vertical dispersion. 

I would also recommend a look at Sierra Blitzking,   I use the 20 caliber 39s in a 20BR and 1 in 9,    hell of a good bullet,  holds together at over 4000 unlike the 40gr VMax.   But best accuracy as is often the case is way below top speed,  in my case about 3600.  

A

I also thought N120 was a bit fast but, when I sold my .17 Hornet, I had to find a use for a near full tub of the stuff so, after reading a few posts from others who recommend it for lighter bullets in teh .223, I tried it with my go to vermin bullet which is 52 Grn AMax or 52Grn SMK.

I ran it through QL to get an idea of max load and full powder burn then worked from 20 Grns up to 23 Grns.

I settled on 22.3 Grns (worked all the way up to 23 Grns with no pressure signs, but I prefer accuracy over speed, and I like to keep a margin for ambient temperature increase) set at the book col and it easily goes clover leaf at 100 yds.

The speed is 3200fps average and when zeroed at 200 Yds it is point and shoot on most vermin out to 250yds (1.5" high  at 120Yds).

It drops off pretty fast from 300 yds, but it is very effective for it's intended purpose.

[Scooby-93]

20 hours ago, Alycidon said:

Data on 223 and N120 is available free here:

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=7

Personally I would have said N120 is a bit fast for the caliber but you should be able to get away with in on the 40 gr VMax,

For the 50s etc I would deffo look for something slower like N133.   

Ideally you want a pretty full case,  (95% or so),  that way you get a uniform velocity, so a closer shot to shot velocity and thus a smaller group with less vertical dispersion. 

I would also recommend a look at Sierra Blitzking,   I use the 20 caliber 39s in a 20BR and 1 in 9,    hell of a good bullet,  holds together at over 4000 unlike the 40gr VMax.   But best accuracy as is often the case is way below top speed,  in my case about 3600.  

A

What speed did you push the 39 sbk up to? 
what length barrel, powder and charge also if you don’t mind sharing? 
I am hoping to get 4200+ out of them providing the accuracy is there at that velocity.

 

[Alycidon]

20 hours ago, Kevgun said:

Thanks Everybody, I have N120 and N135, I’ll pick up some N133 when we are allowed out again.

Run with the N135,  that will be fine.

A

[Alycidon]

2 hours ago, Scooby-93 said:

What speed did you push the 39 sbk up to? 
what length barrel, powder and charge also if you don’t mind sharing? 
I am hoping to get 4200+ out of them providing the accuracy is there at that velocity.

 

28 inch Bartlein, 1 in 9, so hardly ideal, 1 in 11 would have been better but the rifle was built around the 50gr Berger.        I went to around 4100 with the 39,   no need to go any faster,   but was getting pressure signs at that.  Have also been to about 3900 with the 50 Berger, match and varmint,    they also held together fine.

I would suggest as a working load 3300/3600 will be where you will find best accuracy,   given a heavy rifle ( mine is 14lb)  and no mod you should be able to see the bullets arrival.  I shot a crow with it some weeks ago at about 160 yards,  it dropped off the top of a drinking trough before I had registered the gun had fired.  If you are going 20BR then I would advise using N150 and either BR4s and Fed 205s,  that gives you a nice case full so a close velocity spread.

Dont forget barrel life is around 1500 rounds at sensible pressure and velocity,  you start pushing the limits and this will drop down to around 600 rounds,  thats a pound a round plus just for barrel life.

You will find it beneficial to weigh and batch your bullets by weight, use your powder scale.   Bergers are pretty good,  I once had 200 x 50s,    ALL were 50.0 or 50.1 which is remarkable.      I usually find in SBKs a spread of plus or minus 1 grain with the bulk falling into two or three weights.  For a pest control bullet thats perfectly acceptable.  

 

A

 

[Scooby-93]

1 hour ago, Alycidon said:

28 inch Bartlein, 1 in 9, so hardly ideal, 1 in 11 would have been better but the rifle was built around the 50gr Berger.        I went to around 4100 with the 39,   no need to go any faster,   but was getting pressure signs at that.  Have also been to about 3900 with the 50 Berger, match and varmint,    they also held together fine.

I would suggest as a working load 3300/3600 will be where you will find best accuracy,   given a heavy rifle ( mine is 14lb)  and no mod you should be able to see the bullets arrival.  I shot a crow with it some weeks ago at about 160 yards,  it dropped off the top of a drinking trough before I had registered the gun had fired.  If you are going 20BR then I would advise using N150 and either BR4s and Fed 205s,  that gives you a nice case full so a close velocity spread.

Dont forget barrel life is around 1500 rounds at sensible pressure and velocity,  you start pushing the limits and this will drop down to around 600 rounds,  thats a pound a round plus just for barrel life.

You will find it beneficial to weigh and batch your bullets by weight, use your powder scale.   Bergers are pretty good,  I once had 200 x 50s,    ALL were 50.0 or 50.1 which is remarkable.      I usually find in SBKs a spread of plus or minus 1 grain with the bulk falling into two or three weights.  For a pest control bullet thats perfectly acceptable.  

 

A

 

Thanks for the informative reply, it’s going to be a 20-250 and 10twist at 26” long. 
 

I will be using n550 and hoping to get 4200+ with around 38gr of powder.

barrel life will be low, Most likely sub 1000 but for flat trajectory to 300-400 yard it is more or less point and shoot give or take.

what charge we’re you getting 4100 with? 
 
The BR case will be a lot more efficient than the 20-250 but i needed a reliable  Feeding round from my tikka action so went with that instead