Martin52 Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Would anyone who has used the blue VFG paste on VFG felts care to comment on the results ? I am having trouble getting carbon out of my .308 F Class barrel after 600 rounds. Have been using Bore-Tech carbon and copper remover, also their Eliminator. JB has had minor impact. The load was probably on the warm side, I changed over from using 45.2 gr H4895 to 45.4 gr Benchmark 8208 (155 Berger FB's) so that may have contributed. I'd be interested to hear. Meanwhile, some recent borescope pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 To answer your question yes the felts do work, and you can have loose fitting or tight fitting depending on how far down you screw them. Firstly, how does the rifle shoot? if it still shoots then I wouldn't bother trying to remove the carbon but keep the carbon at this level. I use a bore plug and let the barrel soak for 24 hours in Boretech carbon remover, if I had any kroil I would use that as well or on it's own. You only need a small amount as it's normally only the first 4-6 inches of the bore that needs scrubbing. I normally remove the barrel as a precaution when I soak them, but you don't have to, just make sure that when you leave the rifle to soak it's stored at an angle that doesn't allow a leakage to run into the trigger. It hasn't happened to me, but sometimes the rubber seal on the bore plug splits (buy a spare packet) I will use a bronze brush to try and remove the carbon after the soak and if that doesn't work it's gets a scrub. The bore plug is also by far and away the easiest method to remove the carbon ring in the chamber. I use Iosso on the felts or on a patch but I also apply a small amount of Eezox as well. I check regularly while I'm cleaning as I'm not a fan of scrubbing barrels but I realise it's necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngarnett Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 I know this will open 'a can of worms' re cleaning solutions! but....try C2R cleaning solution. Pretty darned effective. (From Shooting Shed) Use as per instructions. JohnG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furrybean Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 As Elwood say, what are you using the carbon cleaner on? Are you using a bronze brush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Do you mean you've fired 600 shots between cleaning or that your total shot count and youve cleaned it several times inbetween.. if 600 shots without a clean it maybe a bit hard to remove..!! I've not got a borescope but several wet patches of boretec gets the worst of the carbon out. I use a tight fitting nylon brush if it's a little stubborn.. A few patches again and leave to soak for a few hours.. Sometimes I leave it overnight as it's been a long days shooting and it's easier to leave it to soak if unless it's old school cleaner that's really hard on barrel metal. Sometimes then the faint light blue copper fouling comes out on the patch but more on my older barrels. I'm not sure it's crucial to get every speck of fowling out might I might be wrong.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Thanks, 2 options there,) 1plugging the barrel and letting it soak and 2) CR2. I have not previously contemplated either, thinking my cleaning regime was doing the job, the recent purchase of a borescope tells me otherwise... I usually clean after each shoot using Boretech Carbon solvent on a bronze brush then CU2 on a nylon brush, patched out with Ballistol to finish. I clean until the patches come out white but this no longer appears (to me at least) to be a reliable indicator of a clean barrel. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, Martin52 said: Thanks, 2 options there,) 1plugging the barrel and letting it soak and 2) CR2. I have not previously contemplated either, thinking my cleaning regime was doing the job, the recent purchase of a borescope tells me otherwise... I usually clean after each shoot using Boretech Carbon solvent on a bronze brush then CU2 on a nylon brush, patched out with Ballistol to finish. I clean until the patches come out white but this no longer appears (to me at least) to be a reliable indicator of a clean barrel. Martin Question is, how does it shoot? They don't always have to be squeaky clean in order to shoot well. I doubt I have any barrels that are past 500 rounds that don't show any signs of carbon. Anyone telling you that this method or product works without a borescope is I'm afraid second guessing. Welcome to Teslong hell Although I have used the word bore plug, the correct terminology is chamber plug. https://www.1967spud.com/shop/maintenance/chamber-plugs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 There's the quandary...the rifle shoots fine. I was not expecting to see quite so much fire-cracking and carbon build up given a reasonably good cleaning regime and a moderate round count (600). The first of my images seems to show a streak of carbon and some fire-cracking in the groove, the second shows black carbon in the groove with copper above, the third image both copper and carbon. I'll try the plug and soak option as I can do this over the next few days, I'll have to order the C2R. Thanks Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Just read this interesting test by Shooting Shed: https://shootingshed.co.uk/wp/2013/01/borebullet-cleaning-comparative-the-last-chapter/ Similar disappointment at Boretech's performance (also KG 12) with C2R and WipeOut Patch Cleaner well ahead. I have a Sinclair Chamber plug somewhere in my shed, it was new several years ago and never used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 We've seen the before photos although a little out of focus. It would be nice to see some after photos. My guess is that it will need isso ,JB or the VGF cleaner, but soaking it will make it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 +1 for Wipe Out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 l'll post the 'after' photos in a few days and work on the borescope focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I used wipe out tactical advantage for years and only changed because of the time I needed some it was put of stock and had to use an alternative.. I will switch back back now after reading Dave from the shooting sheds experiment 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 sometimes, too clean a barrel shoots worse than slightly fouled like yours. I used to scrub clean my barrels (bronze brush) to bare metal and guess what? i had to foul them every time i shot.. sometimes taking up to 10 rounds to settle AND the barrel life went downhill. Now i just patch and nylon brush till patches come out clean. Barrels take far less rounds to settle during fouling (3 is enough) and life has gone up as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Well said sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Another one here for wipe-out ( patch out ) 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 Here are a few 'after' pics. That is after overnight soaks followed up with brushing with BTE and CU2. The carbon seems embedded, not much change. Over the next few days I am going to check a retired barrel that only saw H4895 and Varget for comparison with this one that seems to have incurred more wear and tear as a result of a faster, hotter powder, 45.4 gr Benchmark 8208 with 155's. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 pics to be updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 Mixed up a batch of Ed's Red, plugged the chamber, filled the bore and taped the muzzle. Let it sit for 2 weeks with an empty and refill at the end of week 1. A bit more scrubbing and some improvement. The 8208 just seems harder on the barrel than Varget and H4895. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 The throat looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorg Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 As Elwood said the overriding thing is how does it shoot, I once ruined 2 good barrels by soaking them over night, it stripped every bit of carbon and copper out, they never shot well again. Getting fire cracked barrels mirror clean is not the best policy, leave some in to fill the cracks and a bit of abrasive to polish the tops off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted May 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 There is still carbon remaining and this takes me back to my original query. Having cleaned generally after each shoot, I was getting an unusual heavy build up of carbon including long black streaks. I asked whether anyone found VFG felts to be more effective because in this particular barrel a normal cleaning regime was not working. I was looking for something that would potentially work. Having now tried the main brands, KG, BT, Sweets and the 'old school' Ed's Red and using bronze brushes, soaks etc. I can only think the heavy carbon is due to hotter loads of 8208, my other barrels only see Varget or H4895 and do not have anywhere near this level of carbon (or firecracking). Thanks for your replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KABOOM Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 On 1/3/2020 at 7:01 PM, Martin52 said: Would anyone who has used the blue VFG paste on VFG felts care to comment on the results ? I am having trouble getting carbon out of my .308 F Class barrel after 600 rounds. Have been using Bore-Tech carbon and copper remover, also their Eliminator. JB has had minor impact. The load was probably on the warm side, I changed over from using 45.2 gr H4895 to 45.4 gr Benchmark 8208 (155 Berger FB's) so that may have contributed. I'd be interested to hear. Meanwhile, some recent borescope pics: Not having the VGF Paste or felts I maybe out of depth. What I do for stubborn carbon is nylon brush with one of several cleaners on hand, Ballistol, Hoppes no9, or surplus DoD Rifle bore cleaner. I soak then brush. JB Compound should these fail. My Patches are from Southern Bloomer . I haven't plugged a chamber and filled the bore with solvent (yet) seems it would work on really bad carbon fouling if you had a large quantity of cheap solvent like DoD surplus RBC I get this for 1 USD per quart even in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 Bore pastes and brushes, especially nylon should be avoided. There was a big discussion on one of the Aussie shooting forums titled The death of a barrel. The thread seems to have been taken down which is a pity. Anyway the gist of it was that the gentleman was using JB or losso with a nylon brush and add to that a cleaning rod that wasn't turning or turning properly he totally destroyed his barrel. https://www.ozfclass.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5898&start=105 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin52 Posted May 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2020 20 hours ago, KABOOM said: ....What I do for stubborn carbon is nylon brush The Iosso stiff nylon brush is good, I use one occasionally but with a bore solvent, not with the paste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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