PRL 2020 - what would you change???

[Ronin]

The thread is pretty constructive and provides feedback from many members perspectives of the direction and set up of Precision Rifle Shooting events in the UK

Nothing wrong with discussion which would be of benefit to the organisers of these events / competitions

Some fine tuning may attract more competitors and develop the sport further

I don’t see anyone criticising the PRL organiser and as I recall having spoken to them several times at the first event at Eskdalemuir and subsequently the first PRL Comp, I was asked for feedback

Not everyone has or wants social media for a variety of reasons so the feedback on the related (Face Book) site is limited  - the PRL web forum has pretty much failed with few if any posts on it - in comparison to this forum where there are many hundreds if not thousands of members who visit, read and comment on a variety of subjects in a constructive manner

 

The obvious way to attract more to the sport is to discuss how to attract more people in 

Out of interest how many of the PRL competitors have attended the Guardian competition in Ireland this weekend - I was unable to take time off work 

 

 

[lapua]

I was unable to attend the guardian, would have liked to. I did hear criticisms of the COF and that it contained too much prone shooting. Im not sure the credibility of the source, or how he knew the COF unless he was familiar with the range?

relative to PRL, i like a bit of prone shooting to get confidence and scores up, but certainly not too much, the multi positional stuff is what its all about.

[srvet]

2 hours ago, tackb said:

The only possible way I will bury the hatchet with Gardner’s is if they refund the money they have stolen from me 

the op of this thread was refunded as we’re others but there is a number who for reasons known only to Gardner’s will not be refunded , there is a lot of support for a boycott of Gardner’s over this yet it is such a simple fix by Gardner’s so if detriment to the sport of shooting is to be layed at anyone’s door it is Gardner’s.

they and they alone can fix this. 

Totally agree that any funds paid out for a shoot that did not occur should be refunded. That is a no brainer!  That being said I still maintain that the PRL would be better and more successful with more venues across the country. I don’t know why the falling out happened but all I am saying it that it is in no ones interest for the league to fragment 

[ds1]

A small thing perhaps and it may already be in place in the U.K. PRL type shoots but prizes - what has gone down well here (cz) is the usual prizes / cups for first 3 places and teams but then at least half a dozen lucky dip prizes- and good ones. This encourages more people to enter who probably know that they don’t have much chance of getting to the top of the leaderboard. In the end it is good business sense.

[Scotch_egg]

19 hours ago, ds1 said:

A small thing perhaps and it may already be in place in the U.K. PRL type shoots but prizes - what has gone down well here (cz) is the usual prizes / cups for first 3 places and teams but then at least half a dozen lucky dip prizes- and good ones. This encourages more people to enter who probably know that they don’t have much chance of getting to the top of the leaderboard. In the end it is good business sense.

The large prizes were raffled at the end of the season. Any one who had entered 2 rounds was put into the draw. 

[Sapper811]

So maybe i was a little quick to shout out the other night against this thread. Constructive criticism for competition organisers is a good thing. there is only one way to get better and that is to learn, especially what people want. My experience is of organising small ish one day precision competitions at Diggle. Whilst being small a lot of work goes into organising, setting up and running the day.

PRL looks and sounds great. I wish i had the time to enter and compete but alas there are only so many weekends in a year !

Cost. Cost will always be a factor. £150 or more entry is a sizeable chunk of cash and one would expect a certain level or organisation and professionalism throughout the event for the outlay. For me i have sat down and worked out the cost of competing in the PRL and it ran into the thousands ( this is factoring everything into it )

 

Prizes. Personally i shoot for fun, not for the chance of winning a prize. I disagree with the old ways of the top 3 winners getting prizes whilst everyone else gets nothing for their effort. To this end the precision competition that i organise a certain % of the entry fee goes into a prize fund for a raffle at the end of the day. If 30 people shoot, there are 30 raffle prizes ! Everyone takes something home. From AIM bags to Nerf guns ( yes, and the lucky chap was more than happy ) everyone gets something.

 

 

 

[Brushy]

The AIM drag bag I picked up in the rifle at Diggle is still in regular use and is much appreciated every time I go to the range. 👍

Particularly as I had a howler during the comp itself with hand load malfunction.... another benefit of raffling the prizes.

[paddy]

for me i like the elr day as for .22s they should be kept for the 22prl or mybe a small 22 shoot for kids i dont think we are doing enough to encourage the sport to the next generation coming up . look at the prs in the usa they have a bit for the kids maybe something we can do in the future .

[One on top of two]

36 minutes ago, paddy said:

for me i like the elr day as for .22s they should be kept for the 22prl or mybe a small 22 shoot for kids i dont think we are doing enough to encourage the sport to the next generation coming up . look at the prs in the usa they have a bit for the kids maybe something we can do in the future .

I think the  rimfire stuff should be pushed more for all ages , with regards to the PRL stuff the cost and total lack of places to do it ,  and the in house politics ect ect will be the main reasons why it will die on its arse . 
I hear lots of chatter and excitement of the .22 LR stuff as it can be done pretty much anywhere with only a Max range of 200 m is needed , it’s also a lot fairer to as everyone is restricted by two common elements.... calibre and ammunition . 
and last but not least the cost . The cost of the PRL stuff and alike is laughable and will just end up being restricted to a pretentious few . 
 

[SeaMonkey]

38 minutes ago, One on top of two said:

I think the  rimfire stuff should be pushed more for all ages , with regards to the PRL stuff the cost and total lack of places to do it ,  and the in house politics ect ect will be the main reasons why it will die on its arse . 
I hear lots of chatter and excitement of the .22 LR stuff as it can be done pretty much anywhere with only a Max range of 200 m is needed , it’s also a lot fairer to as everyone is restricted by two common elements.... calibre and ammunition . 
and last but not least the cost . The cost of the PRL stuff and alike is laughable and will just end up being restricted to a pretentious few . 
 

What Ootot said 👆, 👍

[paddy]

1 hour ago, One on top of two said:

I think the  rimfire stuff should be pushed more for all ages , with regards to the PRL stuff the cost and total lack of places to do it ,  and the in house politics ect ect will be the main reasons why it will die on its arse . 
I hear lots of chatter and excitement of the .22 LR stuff as it can be done pretty much anywhere with only a Max range of 200 m is needed , it’s also a lot fairer to as everyone is restricted by two common elements.... calibre and ammunition . 
and last but not least the cost . The cost of the PRL stuff and alike is laughable and will just end up being restricted to a pretentious few . 
 

good points cant argue with any of that 

[Ronin]

Sensible priced alternative competitions are available  - agree on the pricing structure comment it does seem a little high and has precluded many from entering

 

Once CV-19 has passed of course ,,,

 

 

 

[paddy]

its even more for us coming across the water maybe £1200 for the weekend 

[ColinBR]

As already stated above. The 22lr PRL is something I would take interest in. 

[One on top of two]

I don’t want to spend to long on my soapbox , but PRL shouldn’t be allowed to become the elitist part of the sport . Cost is always going to be a massive factor for so many . 
I look down the entry lists and already it’s mainly sponsored teams and gunsmiths  and RFDs , There is a trend already developing. I’m not for one min saying it should be stopped far , far from it  . I personally think it’s all very exciting and refreshing. BUT 

cost and accessibility has to be the biggest consideration ! 
if you look at other country it’s very much a working man discipline .

and from what I have seen , I don’t think the outlay by organisers justifies the profits.

an example being our friends from across the water are having paying £1200 !! For the weekend is just not right ,  I’m sorry but it’s just not . 
and I personally others that are forking out £500 plus 

I for one want to see more fun to be had by the many , and I’m hoping the rimfire versions of these events will bring that. After all its a competition and you want loads of people from all walks of life to be able to enter , make a that which promotes growth and vigour load of new mates and some good old fashioned banter , The  more entries the better and harder comps are . That way at least you can say you Earned the title .  not just be the best of the few who could afford it . 

 

[John MH]

Very few actually gained from any 'sponsorship' last season, a few were being sponsored this year but not many. It is expensive and unfortunately there is not much that can be done to reduce the cost, may be sponsorship would be better spent reducing the cost for all rather than the select few but there aren't enough sponsors with spare cash to do that.

Typical cost for me for the 1st Round of this seasons PRL were £300 for entry fee and pre match training day at Orion, ammo (all hand-loaded but typically approx £0.85 per round not including time) £255, fuel £150 (3L Range Rover so that could be less), accommodation £285 for 3 nights in a AirBNB, meals and sundries lets say another £75 so thats already £965 not including barrel wear and breakages. I had planned to share the AirBNB but that would only save maybe £180.

The difference between £1200 to enter from across the Irish Sea would be the Ferry crossing costs.

PRL is not cheap and the cost to enter is the same no matter what class you shoot in, you can reduce cost by sharing travelling and accommodation and maybe camping but that's about it.

The cost that cannot be measured easily is 'her indoors' patience.

[Ronin]

Double the entries halve the cost of entry 

Make stages short or have efficient turn round of those stages 

Have to compare to F class which I’ve been heavily involved with over the years where entry at worst was 120 for two days shooting, accommodation at worst 50 a night in hotel and or B and B plus cost of ammo 

A Comp could be entered and travelled to and from for about 350 -500 depending on where on the country it was 

I’ve also spent a lot of time shooting military comps in Czech Republic - entry 100 euro for three days with included food and accommodation 

You just had to get there 

The guys spending 1200 per Comp - I REALLY feel for you 

 

[One on top of two]

21 minutes ago, John MH said:

Very few actually gained from any 'sponsorship' last season, a few were being sponsored this year but not many. It is expensive and unfortunately there is not much that can be done to reduce the cost, may be sponsorship would be better spent reducing the cost for all rather than the select few but there aren't enough sponsors with spare cash to do that.

Typical cost for me for the 1st Round of this seasons PRL were £300 for entry fee and pre match training day at Orion, ammo (all hand-loaded but typically approx £0.85 per round not including time) £255, fuel £150 (3L Range Rover so that could be less), accommodation £285 for 3 nights in a AirBNB, meals and sundries lets say another £75 so thats already £965 not including barrel wear and breakages. I had planned to share the AirBNB but that would only save maybe £180.

The difference between £1200 to enter from across the Irish Sea would be the Ferry crossing costs.

PRL is not cheap and the cost to enter is the same no matter what class you shoot in, you can reduce cost by sharing travelling and accommodation and maybe camping but that's about it.

The cost that cannot be measured easily is 'her indoors' patience.

That’s just joke haha £300 entry fee (?not sure if I’ve read that right ) haha 

I can shoot any of the British or English Open championships clay shoots for £50-£60  entry 

and there’s a lots involved than  just setting up some steel targets. 
john no matter. the cost of PRL can’t be justified. Well not with a straight face. 
 

anyway the question was

“ what would I change “ and there is my answer. 

[srvet]

20 minutes ago, One on top of two said:

That’s just joke haha £300 entry fee (?not sure if I’ve read that right ) haha 

I can shoot any of the British or English Open championships clay shoots for £50-£60  entry 

and there’s a lots involved than  just setting up some steel targets. 
john no matter. the cost of PRL can’t be justified. Well not with a straight face. 
 

anyway the question was

“ what would I change “ and there is my answer. 

I wonder how many automatic traps are involved with one of those big clay events.... and the cost of those would be.... hundreds of thousands. Not to mention the staff costs ground hire and cost of clays and infrastructure to keep the traps fed. Surely way more than 50 steel targets you would assume

[Ronin]

Viking Rifle Series 1200 NOK to enter 

100 gbp equivalent

 

Midnight Sun Rifle Challenge 1200 NOK to enter 

120 gbp 

 

Makes you think 

[martin_b]

I shoot the Olympic trap,  comtetition costs vary but  but I never paid more that £80 I think (100/125+clays.)

A set of  traps ( 15 for OT) will run around £50K

[DaveT]

I have posted before in praise of Tiff and his energy in setting this whole thing up.

Having seen at first-hand the work and costs involved at the Roundhouse I am not surprised at the level of costs involved in PRL weekends  BUT ....  for my personal finances it has reached the point of being out of reach (see John MHs summary of all up costs...ouch!)

The shooting is exciting and varied and the banter almost priceless...but money will always be an issue.

I doubt that I could participate again unless it reverted to single day sessions.

I still believe that the PRL with it's time pressures and general 'rush' to get through the COF  does not sit well with the ELR which obviously has to have a schedule but not within the same deliberately pressured environment as PRL.... Just my view.

I repeat the Tiff has my great admiration for being a driving force in getting this going in the UK

[John MH]

57 minutes ago, One on top of two said:

That’s just joke haha £300 entry fee (?not sure if I’ve read that right ) haha 

The actual Match Fee was £200 for two days shooting, the extra £100 was for a 'Training' day on the Friday before the match.

[One on top of two]

Look guys Like I said I think it’s all very exciting and I think it’s fantastic that something new has finally been added to the shoot calendar but.... 

I just think that ( and this is just my opinion ) more effort should really be put into the rimfire PRL or at the very minimum the same amount! As  that’s going to be where the majority of the interest is going to be because it’s so more accessible to so many more people on Normal income . And surly the more you get involved has got to be better . I feel PRL and alike is in serious danger of becoming to elitist in many ways also the current PRL format is not just ridiculously expensive. It’s just bloody hard work . With a few shoots at opposite ends of the country 
the rimfire version would so much cheaper, it can be run at so many more venues as only a fraction of the land would be need to hold a full blown comp and therefore be dotted all over the country ( if I took off )  . 

[MJR]

Personally I don't think PRL is 'ridiculously expensive'. With an entry fee of £200 for two days structured competition with Rco's and markers it is not cheap but neither is it 'ridiculously expensive'. There are also many costs to be covered by the organisers, time spent setting up targetry and different courses of fire, Admin, ground rent etc etc.  Before criticizing the cost have a think about what you would be willing to organise such a competition for and where you would find land suitable. By its very nature it requires a very large area which dictates it will be located in a remote area. 

Of course to participate it does incur extra cost but for me personally that's no different to driving down to bisley  or blair atholl to shoot long range, ammunition cost is broadly similar and accommodation also if I want to stop over.

People tend to look at the entry fee, multiply it by the number of entrants and assume that's all profit - it ain't. Wake up people, everything has a cost.

And by way of comparison a quick google revealed the 2020 Bushnell Brawl has an entry fee of $275.... 

https://nationalrifleleague.org/matches/20-01/