Best reloading manual

[Stephen curry]

Why does the information on reloads. Powder charges etc etc vary in most manuals. Iv reloaded for a number of years but it must get some folk mixed up.why arnt they the same or near too each other.sure it's been asked before but there you go.thanks steve

[Popsbengo]

13 minutes ago, Stephen curry said:

Why does the information on reloads. Powder charges etc etc vary in most manuals. Iv reloaded for a number of years but it must get some folk mixed up.why arnt they the same or near too each other.sure it's been asked before but there you go.thanks steve

I'm not sure the recommended numbers do vary that much considering but I'd guess in descending order of influence:

Different test barrels and actions

Different batches of powder, possibly the recipe has been tweeked/changed over the years by the manufacturer

Different ammunition assembly practice

Component tolerances (different manuals use different brass, primer, bullet combo)

Different measuring standards

Different editorial constraints (a polite way of saying lawyered-up when it comes to maximums)

[Laurie]

They can vary a lot - I just saw 3gn difference in a maximum load for a 6.5mm Grendel combination, ands believe me that is a huge amount in this tiny cartridge. In this case, much of that may be that US SAAMI MAP is 50,000 psi and European CIP is around 8,000 psi higher.

5-10% variances between manuals aren't unusual and can depend on make of brass (different internal capacities), primer model, powder lot variances and the test barrel internal dimensions. The components (case + primer) differences can be great enough to make a major change and that's why most manuals say somewhere in the introductory text section that the printed loads apply only to combinations using the specified items. Occasionally, a manual says that the loads apply to that make of case and that only. Speer does that for 243 Win saying that there is an unusually wide spread of case capacities in this cartridge and that its loads are specifically for Winchester brass only and no others. Sierra tends to use Federal cases whenever available for the cartridge and in contrast IME these are usually on the heavy / low capacity side increasing pressures / reducing max loads.

 Also, of course whether the supplier is super-cautious or wants to impress the manual owner with maximum possible MVs. I like it when pressures are shown as this gives some indication on this issue, also whether as sometimes applies a maximum load is determined by how much powder the case holds with the particular bullet at that COAL not the PMax generated.

Then there are 'dodgy' cartridges, usually elderly originally military such as 6.5X55, 7X57mm, 7.5X55mm Swiss etc where the testers / compilers have to decide whether to provide max loadings for modern rifles, for SAAMI which is often lower, or for some yet lower PMax in case the shooter has the oldest, weakest rifle model that the cartridge was ever chambered in.

[SeaMonkey]

Excellent and thought provoking info as usual Laurie and Pops 👍

[Chanonry]

9 hours ago, Laurie said:

They can vary a lot - I just saw 3gn difference in a maximum load for a 6.5mm Grendel combination, ands believe me that is a huge amount in this tiny cartridge. In this case, much of that may be that US SAAMI MAP is 50,000 psi and European CIP is around 8,000 psi higher.

So in a world of contradictory information, how do you work out where to start ??

[Catch-22]

I choose to look at the online data provided by the powder manufacture (select cartridge, powder I’m using and general bullet weight).

For example, I use both Vihtavouri and Reload Swiss powders, so will consult their online data for given cartridge and bullet weights. I always found the Hodgdon online resource helpful too in the past. 

And I also trawl various forums, using a basic Google search for matching cartridge, powder and bullet weight. But you’ve got to be mindful of the BS some people chat...so plumbing for a good average is wise (eg 20x people with a very similar charge, not just one person).

I take this bunch of varying load data and make a judgement, comparing against the data of the powder manufacture, to determine both a starting load and a safe max load for an initial OCW load test.

Often I find my start loads can be 15% higher than the ‘official’ start load and be no where near to max pressure.

 

[BlueBoy69]

In general, probably the Lyman reloading manual that is now up to its 50th Edition. It covers lots of rounds, with lots of manufacture's bullets (including their own cast) with lots of different American and some European powders.

The Lee manual is OK, but a bit basic and seems to just be a compilation of loads of free sources of reloading data (aka those supplied by the powder and bullet manufacturers).

There are plenty of other manuals, but they are often just for one manufacture's bullets, such as: Barnes; Berger; H&N; Hornady; Nosler; RWS; Sierra; and Speer. These, for obvious reasons, tend to be Americentric with regards to powders. If you use bullets specific to one of those manufacture's, then go with one of them. Personally, I feel the Berger manual is made-up by using QuickLOAD, as many of the recipes, when punched into the program, result in the same or very similar figures. Far too similar for comfort and safety.

As with regards to 'American' powders I am, as no doubt many others are, aware that many are not actually American, but sourced from around the world then sold under American branding.

You then have all the free data, or paid for in their hard copy versions, so either webpage based, or PDF documents from, to name but a few: ADI (Thales Australia); Alliant; Accurate (Western Powders); Barnes; Hodgdon; Hornady; IMR (Hodgdon); LOVEX (EXPLOSIA a.s.) Norma; Nosler; Ramshot (Western Powders); Reload Swiss (Nitrochemie 'Wimmis' AG); Vectan (Noble Sport); Vihtavuori; Western Powders; Winchester (Hodgdon).

As Laurie has mentioned previously, many of these sources (hard and electronic) do not agree with each other, have data tailored to work safely in the oldest of guns chambered for certain cartridges, and many other quirks.

As to what you should get, well that depends on what you want, what you have and what you can get. I've got most of the above, either in hard or electronic copy if you want me to check something specific.

Once you’ve chosen a source you’ve then got the choice of where to start. As Catch-22 said, many start loads are way below 15% of the max charge. Personally, I start at around 10% below the max and work up, noting the ambient temperature when firing. The latter is important as many powders can be highly temperature sensitive, primarily at higher temperature, but also below. Though the latter is not something to worry too much about here in the UK.

[gruntus]

1 hour ago, Chanonry said:

So in a world of contradictory information, how do you work out where to start ??

Hi Chanory,

Typically start at the lowest load listed  and work up from there to ensure safe load dev practices are followed, I go by the powder manufacturers min load and cross reference with the bullet manufacturers data and then safely work up from there.

HTH

G

[Re-Pete]

Quickload, but read , study, and inwardly digest the manual, and start 10% lower............the most useful bit of shooting related s/ware I've come across. Covers almost every bullet & powder under the sun.

Second is Litz's tome "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting", together with the included calculator CD.

All you'll ever need............

Pete

[KABOOM]

Buy all you can and compare the loads, more data is best data!

[Andrew]

Buy the one that lists data for the powders you can get.

Raw data is available from manufacturers on-line but I still like books. I once bought every loading manual, old and new, I could lay my hands on but that is slowing down as I settle into a pool of known resources. I do like to experiment (Lovex powders being the most recent group) so on-line data is my one option. Luckily, data on line can be very handy but the power eventually runs out. I printed all the Shooter's World/Lovex data and put it into a binder for that reason.

My resentment towards on-line data is that many new reloaders start with data and no instruction. I wish new reloaders would read a book on the subject. Fifty years ago, my uncle, a good reloader and gunsmith, made me read a 900 page book on the principles and practices of handloading before I could touch his equipment. It paid dividends. Without the internet, where would the fellows experiencing 'sooty cases' or having they rounds not chamber go for help? ~Andrew

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

My resentment towards on-line data is that many new reloaders start with data and no instruction. I wish new reloaders would read a book on the subject. Fifty years ago, my uncle, a good reloader and gunsmith, made me read a 900 page book on the principles and practices of handloading before I could touch his equipment. It paid dividends. Without the internet, where would the fellows experiencing 'sooty cases' or having they rounds not chamber go for help? ~Andrew

100% agree.  The number of newbies that ask me at our club and want to get stuck in without bothering with anything as boring as reading or even watching Youboob (full of very variable 'information' indeed). At least a book has to pass some sort of editorial review !

[KABOOM]

On 6/27/2019 at 1:10 AM, Chanonry said:

So in a world of contradictory information, how do you work out where to start ??

I compare data between sources based on powder I have or can obtain, bullets that the data matches and mostly I go with the data with higher velocity. Slow work up and chrono at the same time and I develop loads on hot days looking for pressure signs, bolt lift ect.

If im close to what the data says and I maxed out my charge I quit, any pressure signs I reduce my charge. I try to use powder that isn't temp sensitive. Bullet seating is more simplistic, will it fit a magazine if yes seat out as far as I can, if not seat to mag. Single shots I seat just until I have no engraving on the ogive. Should have added if my seating is for a magazine it also wont be jammed into the lead of rifling. I have seen bullets stick in the lead from being seated to far out and combo of short throats plus brass work hardned and no longer grips well.

Edited March 30, 2020 by KABOOM
forgot to add pertitnent info