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I'd suggest reading this from cover to cover to see why this has happened...............it's not just the aspiration of one guy, the proposals are based on good science.

http://www.chrispackham.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Peoples-Manifesto-Download.pdf

Pages 13 to 15 are particularly relevant to shooters.

Pete

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Looks like a well put together argument and not just as per the papers say to ban crow and pigeons . Like the parts re not releasing thousands of pheasants and we might get back our natural species  ...... He’s certainly got a point . As usual we don’t always get the full facts and we go off half cocked with limited info and big egos    Just like brexit . Wait and see what happens . Cheers Re Pete for the link 

 

Regards Rich 

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For me the main problem is pollution to the air the land and the seas that I think gets hit the hardest.

Does Chris Pakham drive a vehicle,use electric gas water etc.does he eat meat,fish or veg.

You bet your balls he does some if not all of them and he protests about somebody shooting a few birds. Perhaps he should go to Argentina and protect the doves 🤔😁

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Someone shooting a few birds???  If only that was the case............

https://www.league.org.uk/shooting

Pete

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Those who are against controlling and managing wildlife are half educated and never had first hand countryside management experience , with human presence wildlife cant self regulate and a balance has to be kept .

Letting nature get on with it "naturally " would end in disaster with certain species being decimated.

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Pete we would be plaqued with birds if they weren't shot on a daily basis like they are.like it or not that's the way it is.theres no shortage of crows,pigeons and gulls where I live and never has been....

It greives me too see all them fish being taken out the oceans and seas tonne after tonne after tonne but theres so many mouths to feed, two right don't make a wrong and vice versa. Live and let live

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misinformation sent to me then Thrush..😉

My apologies to swampy 😉😁.

Maybe they should follow behind the recycling lorries as the road into my estate can look like that photo after collection especially if it's been windy 😆

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12 hours ago, No i deer said:

Pete we would be plaqued with birds if they weren't shot on a daily basis like they are.like it or not that's the way it is.theres no shortage of crows,pigeons and gulls where I live and never has been....

It greives me too see all them fish being taken out the oceans and seas tonne after tonne after tonne but theres so many mouths to feed, two right don't make a wrong and vice versa. Live and let live

I think Pete was referring more to the millions of reared pheasants and partridges being shot, than crows pigeons and gulls, but he's probably not to keen on anything live being shot!! And if that's how he feels, live and let live😃.

Quite strange really, I love shooting live quarry ,and love picking up with my lab, been doing it all my life,but after looking at those films in Pete's link you can understand why there's so many people opposed to game shooting, they certainly painted a grim picture , and I must say, there's no pleasure standing behind a team of guns picking up that can't shoot 😣, but a team that can shoot straight is great to watch😃.

I do wonder when you see piles of pheasants dumped in heaps in those films whether they've been deliberately set up by the anti brigade !!!, as i can't understand why anyone involved in a game shoot would allow that to happen in this anti game shooting climate.

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Game meat is the most ethically raised meat you can buy , pheasants /deer  are generally shot in their own environment so no stressful journey`s to the slaughter house , dismissing these facts and being anti hunting then driving down to your local supermarket and buying a steroidal factory farmed chicken is pure hypocrisy , veggie`s/vegans and the only one`s who can knock hunting without being  hypercritical. 

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Well, according to Moorlander, the likes of Attenborough, Packham, and any other naturalist or scientist, including me, who disagrees with his apparent take on wildlife management, is only half educated...............

As Bob57 just opined, I'm rabidly anti driven game shooting, pheasant, grouse or partridge. The thought of raising thousands of birds to provide "sport" sickens me............if you really wanna show what a great shot you are, try skeet or F/TR

As far as corvids and pigeons are concerned, we have had both in large numbers in our garden for many years, and we haven't seen any decline in small birds apart from sparrows and starlings.

We don't eat a great deal of meat, but what we do eat comes from local farms, is free-range or organic, is excellent, and I'm happy to pay over the odds for it. If the shite sold in supermarkets was the only option, I'd be a veggie for sure.

Pete

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

Well, according to Moorlander, the likes of Attenborough, Packham, and any other naturalist or scientist, including me, who disagrees with his apparent take on wildlife management, is only half educated...............

As Bob57 just opined, I'm rabidly anti driven game shooting, pheasant, grouse or partridge. The thought of raising thousands of birds to provide "sport" sickens me............if you really wanna show what a great shot you are, try skeet or F/TR

As far as corvids and pigeons are concerned, we have h.ad both in large numbers in our garden for many years, and we haven't seen any decline in small birds apart from sparrows and starlings.

Pete

 

 

 

 

So you are a veggie? if not it must be that you are against people dispatching game as a sport? , if you dont like it or understand it stay away , game has been raised with better ethics than anything lying on the supermarket shelves.

Game shoots have done more for conservation than anti of the anti shooting mob`s , Attenborough would not dispute that , Packham`s views are half baked /educated and I dismiss them.

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22 hours ago, Re-Pete said:

I'd suggest reading this from cover to cover to see why this has happened...............it's not just the aspiration of one guy, the proposals are based on good science.

http://www.chrispackham.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Peoples-Manifesto-Download.pdf

Pages 13 to 15 are particularly relevant to shooters.

Pete

Well, I did read it all. ‘...based on good science.’ If that is so, why was there not one single reference to the authoritative source of the statistics quoted? And not one reference to a proper peer-reviewed paper from a reputable scientific journal?

For the record, I do not participate in any live game shooting. However, policy proposals that do not appear to be based on any sort of evidence-based analysis is one of my pet peeves.

 

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17 minutes ago, Shuggy said:

Well, I did read it all. ‘...based on good science.’ If that is so, why was there not one single reference to the authoritative source of the statistics quoted? And not one reference to a proper peer-reviewed paper from a reputable scientific journal?

For the record, I do not participate in any live game shooting. However, policy proposals that do not appear to be based on any sort of evidence-based analysis is one of my pet peeves.

 

There are no references to peer reviewed papers because it`s quasi science .

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32 minutes ago, Moorlander said:

Game shoots have done more for conservation than anti of the anti shooting mob`s

I'm not sure that's entirely true.

Some game shoots are conservation minded. Most aren't and are only interested in one thing. 

I doubt more than 50% of shot pheasants even reach the food chain.

Basc has done a lot for conversation but unfortunately it's not the reality of modern commersial shoots.

The massive game farms that rear and sell the chicks arn't any better than chicken farms.

I don't know how anyone can argue that realising 20000 + non native birds in a relatively small area can be beneficial to biodiversity😒

I agree that wild game managed right is the most ethical meat possible.

I shoot and eat deer and vermin but also run a conservation based countryside management company. 

 

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12 minutes ago, trucraft said:

I'm not sure that's entirely true.

Some game shoots are conservation minded. Most aren't and are only interested in one thing. 

I doubt more than 50% of shot pheasants even reach the food chain.

Basc has done a lot for conversation but unfortunately it's not the reality of modern commersial shoots.

The massive game farms that rear and sell the chicks arn't any better than chicken farms.

I don't know how anyone can argue that realising 20000 + non native birds in a relatively small area can be beneficial to biodiversity😒

I agree that wild game managed right is the most ethical meat possible.

I shoot and eat deer and vermin but also run a conservation based countryside management company. 

 

I've been following this thread, at last a balanced and fair view, thank you.

A little more honesty from those that "enjoy" shooting wildlife would be welcome.  If shooting was only done to protect native species and farming and to put meat on the table then an awful lot less killing would go on.  Packham has a point, he argues it well, I disagree with some of his ideas but it's a healthy debate to have.  It's got nothing to do with being a veggie or being a hypocrite by buying meat slaughtered by others out of sight; it's about a balanced regard for life.

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13 minutes ago, Moorlander said:

There are no references to peer reviewed papers because it`s quasi science .

 

I hadn't seen it until I followed the link provided on here.  I've read through the sections relavent to shooting and found little to argue with.    Does that make me half-educated too?  I'm a wildlife biologist who has lived and worked in a rual community for 31 years.   I would not expect to find endless references to scientific papers in a manifesto.  There is plenty of research in resepcted, peer-reviewed journals for those inclined to seek it out. 



 

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1 hour ago, Bob57 said:

I do wonder when you see piles of pheasants dumped in heaps in those films whether they've been deliberately set up by the anti brigade !!!, as i can't understand why anyone involved in a game shoot would allow that to happen in this anti game shooting climate.

I have the same feeling - it's similar to the pictures of dead foxes in bin liners someone's stumbled across at the side of a path, either that or there are some really, really stupid people involved in shooting these days.

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1 hour ago, Re-Pete said:

Well, according to Moorlander, the likes of Attenborough, Packham, and any other naturalist or scientist, including me, who disagrees with his apparent take on wildlife management, is only half educated...............

As Bob57 just opined, I'm rabidly anti driven game shooting, pheasant, grouse or partridge. The thought of raising thousands of birds to provide "sport" sickens me............if you really wanna show what a great shot you are, try skeet or F/TR

As far as corvids and pigeons are concerned, we have had both in large numbers in our garden for many years, and we haven't seen any decline in small birds apart from sparrows and starlings.

We don't eat a great deal of meat, but what we do eat comes from local farms, is free-range or organic, is excellent, and I'm happy to pay over the odds for it. If the shite sold in supermarkets was the only option, I'd be a veggie for sure.

Pete

 

 

 

 

Pete, just as a matter of interest, if all the shoots in the country went from reared birds to wild birds only, which were shot through sheer management and conservation practice, and in turn,  all used on the table would that change your distaste with live shooting of game?

 

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