Defiance / Eliseo 6.5x47 OCW

[Catch-22]

I managed to get out and conduct some initial load Dev with this new 6.5x47 26" Bartlein 5r barrel (MTU contour). 

Barrel was swabbed with a HbN slurry a couple of hours before shooting. All bullets also coated with HbN. I definitely noticed the velocity lower than a previous 24" barrel I had, so the HbN is certainly acting as a lubricant. 

All shot at 100m inside a tunnel to minimise wind influence. All groups are 5x groups. Velocity, ES & SD captured using a Magnetospeed with bare muzzle (no brake or moddy). All shot off a bench with bipod and rear bean bag.

All loads used new Lapua brass, sized with Whidden F/L die, expander mandrel (giving approx 0.02" neck tension), KVB223m Murom SR Magnum primers and 123g Scenar loaded to around 0.015" off the lands. 

Everything loaded using my Autotrickler/Autothrow on an A&D FX120i, holding to 0.02gn accuracy.

All loads shot in same session, with no 'run in' or cleaning inbetween. 

 

1st up - Viht N140 (I had good results with this previously).

1. 37.0gn // mv: 2776 // ES: 24 // SD: 10

2. 37.3gn // mv: 2793 // ES: 4 // SD: 1

3. 37.6gn // mv: 2809 // ES: 14 // SD: 6

4. 37.9gn // mv: 2834 // ES: 20 // SD: 8

5. 38.2gn // mv: 2851 // ES: 30 // SD: 10

6. 38.5gn // mv: 2867 // ES: 10 // SD: 3

7. 38.8gn // mv: 2904 // ES: 16 // SD: 6

 

2nd up - RS52 (wanted to give it ago)

1. 36.3gn // mv: 2772 // ES: 24 // SD: 10

2. 36.6gn // mv: 2806 // ES: 30 // SD: 12

3. 36.9gn // mv: 2807 // ES: 20 // SD: 9

4. 37.2gn // mv: 2823 // ES: 28 // SD: 12

5. 37.5gn // mv: 2841 // ES: 59 // SD: 24

6. 37.8gn // mv: 2865 // ES: 28 // SD: 12

7. 38.1gn // mv: 2885 // ES: 26 // SD: 10

 

3rd up - RS62 (also wanted to give it ago)

1. 40.3gn // mv: 2671 // ES: 28 // SD: 12

2. 40.6gn // mv: 2706 // ES: 23 // SD: 9

3. 40.9gn // mv: 2725 // ES: 22 // SD: 8

4. 41.2gn // mv: 2744 // ES: 21 // SD: 8

5. 41.5gn // mv: 2770 // ES: 18 // SD: 8

6. 41.8gn // mv: 2789 // ES: 12 // SD: 4

 

Things I found:

- no pressure found at all with any loads. The hot load in my previous barrel was 38.4gn N140, giving 2930fps. With this HbN coated bore, I managed to go to 38.8gn N140, mv of 2904fps with zero pressure. So velocity is down (due to HbN coating) so definitely need to up my charges next time. 

- N140 gave both good velocity and groups as experienced in previous barrel proving to me that it is a very good powder for this cartridge

- N140 and RS62 gave some good ES & SD consistency, especially as powder charges & velocities increased 

- RS52 was definitely a disappointment, both ES/SD and also group size 

- I noticed some fractional delayed ignition only with RS52. A few times I pulled the trigger, heard a feint 'pop' followed very quickly by 'bang'. Primers all from the same batch, no issues with firing pin, no issues experienced with any other load or powder. I can only put it down to the powder itself

- I actually didn't like the recoil impulse with RS52, noticeably sharper and less predicable. N140 and RS62 much better in this regard.

- RS52 was difficult to meter through the Autotrickler/throw scales, much more so than N140 or RS62.

- definitely need to improve my shooting position & stability, which has shown itself in vertical stringing and the odd flyer in a few of the groups. Purely my fault, definitely need to tweak some of the configuration, namely a bit too much cant in the buttstock.

- cleaning afterwards was 3 dry patches through the bore. The first patch was a little sooty but no where near as bad as when shooting a bore without HbN. The next two patches were almost clean coming out. Looking through the crown showed no signs of coppering, just some HbN residue in the grooves. 

- Pete Walker did a Stirling job with chambering. Sadly I didn't take a pic of the crown but it had a beautiful, even 5 spoke 'star' showing the even cut made. Lovely job!

 

Next job will be to test some higher charges, though I'm gonna have trouble fitting more RS62 into the case. I think it's better suited to a heavier bullet to generate better velocity, but worth a go as it's a v. good powder!

If I can get reach 2900fps with RS62 then great, otherwise it is likely that I'll stick with N140 as the velocity is there, its a very consistent powder and groups are good.

[Catch-22]

Photos in order of shooting:

[No i deer]

I use 41grs of RS62 behind the 139gr scenars that shoot superb in my 6.5x47, I tried them first on 41.5grs but I felt they were too pokey,went down 0.5grs and they shoot like a laser

[VarmLR]

37.3gr N140 seems to be a good node....not much MV difference one charge up or down, low ES and low vertical dispersion.  That's the load I'd probably shoot.

[Catch-22]

Thanks chaps!

Ive read a lot that when using HbN, it's necessary to go a full grain, sometimes even more, to match non HbN velocity & pressure. 

i actually think there's a higher node for both N140 and RS62. For me, whilst the N140 load looks very stable, 2739fps is just too slow. I can see both the groups and ES/SD numbers shrink and grow. I think that if I go a charge or two higher, I'll break into another nice higher node. Worth a shot at least 😋

And I expect to maybe get up to 39.1gn, possibly even 39.4gn with N140.

I'm also definitely keen to squeeze more RS62 into the case because it was both a lovely powder to work with and see shoot on paper. I'm gonna see if I can fit 42.5gns...maybe even upto 43.0gns in there (obviously working up in 0.3gns a time, looking for pressure. That might get me to around 2900fps.

Ill give it a whirl then try at distance (600m and 1000m) then report back at somepoint. But next up will be RS80 and Ramshot Mag in the big .338 NM boomer barrel. 💪💥

[No i deer]

That will be an expensive load development 😁

[Catch-22]

Ha - it's all fun & games. 

Booooom 💥

[VarmLR]

2730 too slow for what though?  It should be good enough for that high BC bullet to remain above transonic at 1000 yds.  I think I shoot mine closer to 2700fps and get some very acceptable results.  Others I shoot with have had equally good results at closer to 2800fps, but 2700 seems acceptable for informal target practice.  You get marginally less wind drift at 1000 by dropping MV from 2800fps to 2700fps which may or may not matter to you.

[No i deer]

My RS62 139gr scenar load will be doing about 2810fps from the 27 inch pacnor, i've not bothered to chrony it as it shot the same elevation at 600yds as the H4350 load, I use this for McQueens and out to 600yds,I've got 300yds McQueens this Sunday.looking forward to it.

[Catch-22]

Some interesting findings now I’m at the 450 round mark in my 6.5x47 barrel.

1. I need way less elevation than my Kestrel 5700 Elite w. AB suggests. About 1.1MIL less at 600m. After plugging in all the correct data collected from up top and the Kestrel is calibrated / setup correctly too. I suspect it could be the HbN improving their slipperyness. Maybe just the barrel speeding up a bit since I last chronied!? Unsure though - need to do some further testing to be sure.

2. Despite my bore patching carbon out in one pass (1x grey, rest clear) I found a good amount of coppering, especially the last 2-3” towards the muzzle. 

I’ve cleaned the bore throughly with Hoppes #9 and Sweets. Before my next shoot I’ll re-swab the bore with my ‘slurry’ mix and chronograph the loads again to see if the barrel has indeed sped up or not, then adjust my Kestrel data if so. 

Anyone else using HbN noticed some coppering after extended shooting, or their drop values being less than expected/suggested?

[baldie]

Found this out the hard way.

Dont run a barrel in with HBN coated bullets. You are prolonging the agony.

All the Bartliens i've used in the last 12 months have taken a good 200 rounds to optimise. They seem to speed up around that mark, though some of the .224 blanks have gone as far as 400 before speeding up. My own .223 wylde AR15 being a good example. It was decidedly average for 400 rds, to the point I almost whipped it off. Then all of a sudden, it became WAY more accurate, and gained 200 fps.

If that isn't evidence of "breaking in" I don't know what is. 

That was a one off. Bartliens always shoot well, but they can be slower to settle down than others. 

I've always thought though, that a slow breaking in barrel, may just last a bit longer.

using HBN from the word go, only slows this process down. It need some naked bullets down it to smooth it out, then switch to coated.

[Catch-22]

@baldie very helpful, thanks for the reply.

I had no idea that coating the bullets slowed the running in process!

I think it’s key for me to break the Magnetospeed out on the next range trip and see where my loads are at. 

At Kingsbury, I noticed my rounds just eat out the v-bull at 300m with relative ease. My Kestrel said I needed 0.7MIL elevation but my scope needed zero dialled in to be on the V.

At 600m, the Kestrel suggested 3.6MIL but I only needed 2.4MIL. Accuracy was pretty good for the most bit with the odd flyer pushing me out to the 5 or 4 ring. The winds could have played a factor in dancing that little bullet around a bit. I wonder if also my barrel was speeding up / coppering up, pushing me in to a slightly unfavourable node?!

The chronograph will help me thinks!

Thanks again.

[baldie]

Another good tip is to buy yourself a bottle of KG bore polish.

This stuff looks to me, to be like a liquid pumice ?

Every week, when I'm cleaning the guns back from proof, I follow my usual doses of boretec carbon remover and sweets, with a good clean/polish with this stuff.

You can actually feel, on the rod, what it's doing.

New barrels treated this way, shoot better, much faster. I'm certain it speeds up the break in process.

[Catch-22]

@baldie Is it somewhat similar to JB Bore Paste?

No expert on the matter, but doesn’t polishing the bore counteract or diminish the barrel lapping process?

I can understand there will be some roughness in the throat where the reamer cuts into the lands. I can see sense in needing to smooth this area out a bit. I guess that’s what the ‘running’ in process is when the barrel has a few hundred rounds down it. The bullets are literally smoothing out any burrs and roughness. 

But is the ‘polishing’ necessary all the way down the bore? Or just the first few centimetres of the throat area?

And I assume you don’t polish the bore at each cleaning interval, just on a new barrel prior to break-in?

Thanks in advance

[baldie]

No, its no where near as harsh as JB buddy.

People do use regularly I believe, I just use it on a new barrel.

The lapping process uses diamond paste, which is a little more aggressive than proprietary bore polishes, so it won't affect the lapping process [ which is far more affected by the first few rounds down the tube anyway ]

I polish the entire tube.

[Catch-22]

Alles Klar - thanks Baldie, all very helpful indeed!

[No i deer]

Hi Catch.

What load did you stick with in the end.....?

Did you use the best ES load and play with the jump.....

How did you decide and why....?

[Catch-22]

On 8/24/2019 at 9:56 AM, No i deer said:

Hi Catch.

What load did you stick with in the end.....?

Did you use the best ES load and play with the jump.....

How did you decide and why....?

Hiya buddy,

To be honest...I dunno yet 😬

I had thought it would be the 38.8gn N140 which my previous range session said was running at around 2900fps. Good accuracy and low ES/SD. I actually tested some more loads going up to 39.4gn N140. No pressure, good accuracy at 600m (had about 0.5MIL less drop at 600m than the 38.8gn load) but stupidly I didn’t log the velocity or ES/SD. 

So, I think I need to make some more up, 38.8gn and 39.4gn N140 And put them over the Magnetospeed to see how those loads are given that my barrel is speeding up. I will then lower the charge down a bit to account for the extra barrel speed. 

*** NOTE: the charges above are for HbN coated bullets and bore. With HbN the charges are often a full 1.0gn or more higher than naked bullets. I wouldn’t use my loads above in a rifle with uncoated bullets.