Bolt lube

[Chris-NZ]

1 hour ago, MrCetirizine said:

..

A manual bolt action will never create enough friction on its bolt to need lube except on the cocking cam.

...

Have to disagree. If you want to bugger an RPA CG-2000 or an H&H Millennium, don't lube the lugs. Galling is inevitable without some lubrication. Doesn't matter how clean you keep them, it will happen.

The issue is worse with actions where the hardness of the receiver and the lugs is very similar.

 

[MrCetrizine]

Well, I've owned and used a few rifles to the point where they needed a rebarrel and never had any wear on the bolt lugs while using oil to clean then totally drying the bolt body and lugs before use.

I guess we'll all continue doing what we do.

[Re-Pete]

If you use oil to clean it, you'll still leave a thin film even if you polish it with a dry cloth.

Pete

[MrCetrizine]

I know, but you wouldn't call it lube as such. If you sprinkle sand over it, it won't stick.

[Shuggy]

Hmm - I never dry off the oil. I just leave a film on the lugs, cam and bolt body. How could that lead to galling?

The ‘attract grit’ thing is one of those gun urban legends.. Back when the L85A2 was introduced, the Marines were reporting relaibility issues in Afghanistan, when no-one else was. After investigation, it was discovered that they were running the guns dry, to ‘stop oily grit gumming up the action’. H&K soon scotched that myth. Yes, they said, oil will attract dust and grit; but if you use the right amount of oil, it will form a slurry, that will still lubricate the weapon just fine. Once the Marines started lubricating the weapons properly, all the ‘reliability’ issues magically disappeared.

[MrCetrizine]

Semi/auto actions need some lube . Bolt actions do not. Except on the only bit that has a high amount of friction, which is the cocking cam.

[baldie]

Quite frankly....thats incorrect..

For a start, most cocking cams, or to give them their correct name, Primary extractors...dont actually work well, because the bolt handle has been mis timed when fitted. Remingtons being the best example.

So the stiffness most feel, isn't the cam, its the bolt lugs grating across each other.

If you don't understand that the bolt lugs are being subjected to 60,000 psi every time the trigger is pulled, well.

The cartridge case walls dont absorb that, it's the lugs.

I've had perfectly clean guns galled at PROOF, because I didn't lube the lugs.

Any action that has 100% lug contact, be it a blueprinted action, or a custom action, needs lug lubricant, and any custom action maker ships actions in a lubed condition, and advises lubricant in use.

Actions will stand a bit of muck, they won't stand no lug lube.

 

[MrCetrizine]

1 hour ago, baldie said:

 

If you don't understand that the bolt lugs are being subjected to 60,000 psi every time the trigger is pulled, well.

The cartridge case walls dont absorb that, it's the lugs.

 

 

My degree in physics covered pressure and surface area well enough for me to fully understand that nothing absorbs the pressure but the chamber walls have to withstand more than the lugs.

Also, cocking cams are the curved bit at the back of the bolt body that pulls the cocking piece back to the cocked position. Primary extraction is the slight curve built into some lug designs to give a little rearward mechanical advantage and aid unsticking of cases from the chamber walls that have been subjected to your stated 60,000 PSI. The two are not the same.

[ejg223]

Dry metal running on metal is no good. Just drop the oil out of your sump and see how far you get. This is very very basic mechanics... I don't think one needs any Physics degree..... and if how come one get's it so wrong?

If you have 60000 psi in the chamber, how much PSI do the lugs take up?  You just can't tell can you, because one just does not know how the lugs engage on every action. Do you know the friction on the brass case in the chamber?  Some parts of a hardened lug even get flattened with the pressure. Oil/Grease works as a release agent as well as lube once the lug moves.

edi

[n8ess]

Could someone post a picture of where the lube should be applied, 

[bradders]

12 minutes ago, n8ess said:

Could someone post a picture of where the lube should be applied, 

[Bob57]

Just now, bradders said:

Brilliant,I was waiting for that 😂😂😂😂

[Popsbengo]

2 minutes ago, bradders said:

Bradders rides again!

[Popsbengo]

Locking lugs?

[Bob57]

22 minutes ago, n8ess said:

Could someone post a picture of where the lube should be applied, 

Here you go mate

[n8ess]

As soon as l hit the send button, l knew that was coming 😂

[rhhudson]

I like how my post about which type of lube has turned into a fight about to lube or not to lube 🤣 .

 

Please anyone that dosent don't bother commenting. I'm looking for reccomendations on type, not a lecture why I shouldn't. 

 

Thanks 

[Popsbengo]

13 minutes ago, rhhudson said:

I like how my post about which type of lube has turned into a fight about to lube or not to lube 🤣 .

 

Please anyone that dosent don't bother commenting. I'm looking for reccomendations on type, not a lecture why I shouldn't. 

 

Thanks 

Any nice stiff (so it stays put) moly grease applied sparingly to the right places.  Stick a shooting brand on it and sell for 10x the price.  Keep moly away from titanium if you have any.

I have a tin of Castrol UJ grease that I've had for ever.

[MrCetrizine]

1 hour ago, ejg223 said:

Dry metal running on metal is no good. Just drop the oil out of your sump and see how far you get. This is very very basic mechanics... I don't think one needs any Physics degree..... and if how come one get's it so wrong?

If you have 60000 psi in the chamber, how much PSI do the lugs take up?  You just can't tell can you, because one just does not know how the lugs engage on every action. Do you know the friction on the brass case in the chamber?  Some parts of a hardened lug even get flattened with the pressure. Oil/Grease works as a release agent as well as lube once the lug moves.

edi

Someone opening a bolt doesn't create anywhere near the amount of sustained friction than an engine does so that argument is pointless.

Yes you can know how much pressure is exerted on the lugs. It's a simple matter of surface area, pressure, compression ratio of the brass at the web, calibre, bullet weight and area of bearing surface. Maths can calculate anything, that's how quickload works.

If the steel on the lugs was weak enough to get flattened by pressure, the lugs would snap off.

[The Gun Pimp]

2 hours ago, MrCetirizine said:

My degree in physics covered pressure and surface area well enough for me to fully understand that nothing absorbs the pressure but the chamber walls have to withstand more than the lugs.

Also, cocking cams are the curved bit at the back of the bolt body that pulls the cocking piece back to the cocked position. Primary extraction is the slight curve built into some lug designs to give a little rearward mechanical advantage and aid unsticking of cases from the chamber walls that have been subjected to your stated 60,000 PSI. The two are not the same.

As Baldie says - the Proof House is a great place to see galled lugs! And you don't need a degree in physics....... just common sense.

[MrCetrizine]

Show me some pictures then.

[bradders]

8 minutes ago, MrCetirizine said:

Show me some pictures then.

You won't see any, no one ever had the gall <sic> to take any

[Barnsley] Tha's seen more actions ruined and scrapped by not putting lube on them than times thee's kicked me Whippet round t' workshop [/Barnsley]

[Popsbengo]

 

1 hour ago, MrCetirizine said:

Someone opening a bolt doesn't create anywhere near the amount of sustained friction than an engine does so that argument is pointless.

Yes you can know how much pressure is exerted on the lugs. It's a simple matter of surface area, pressure, compression ratio of the brass at the web, calibre, bullet weight and area of bearing surface. Maths can calculate anything, that's how quickload works.

If the steel on the lugs was weak enough to get flattened by pressure, the lugs would snap off.

No.  I flattened a steel nail once and it didn't snap off.

[MrCetrizine]

Did you somehow manage to apply shearing force with a hammer? No? That'll explain it then.

[Bob57]

3 hours ago, rhhudson said:

I like how my post about which type of lube has turned into a fight about to lube or not to lube 🤣 .

 

Please anyone that dosent don't bother commenting. I'm looking for reccomendations on type, not a lecture why I shouldn't. 

 

Thanks 

Oh ok then, this stuff is the BEST and the ONLY lube you'll ever need, just a tiny little smear and you'll never gall your lugs😀.

You can even dump all your engine oil and keep driving when it's been treated with this, and you'll still get a long way before it seizes up😃.

Magic fairy oil😁

zX1 and i can't post a pic