New to firearms, have a question.

[Moorlander]

1 minute ago, Pellet Gun Pete said:

Blimey, it's probably best I leave it as it is. Nothing worse than "grey areas" in the law.

Pete

I agree , but there should not be grey areas but I guess thats how the Proof House Mafia like it.

[Boydy47]

In terms of the RF meaning WMR/LR on your ticket a lot of people refer to LR specifically as .22RF. Personally I have put WMR on a RF slot but out of interest what does the ammunition allowance show on your ticket? Is it .22RF or .22LR?

If you hadn't bought the HMR I think you would have had a case to swap the HMR for a WMR as they are basically the same cartridge (HMR is a necked down WMR) but you have the HMR so you need to work with what you've got.

I would look at the 20 gr hollow point ammunition over 17 grainers, they are a harder bullet than the 17s so marginally better for fox. 

I would give it 6 months, get out regularly and then speak to them about a .22CF,  if they are nervous about .223 then hornet would be a good option, less power, less velocity and short stubby bullets means energy is not carried as far as .222/.223 but you can tell them that is irrelevant really as all shots are into a safe backstop. 

As has been said foxing with rimfires requires pin point accuracy. They are hugely powerful compared to what you are used to but low energy compared to most foxing calibres and energy buys margin for error, the less energy the lower the margin. 

Good luck with charlie 

 

 

 

[Boydy47]

On 1/26/2019 at 7:17 AM, gunner said:

Hi Pete , personnely id not use a hmr for fox - sometimes its not humane enough from experience . The 17 bullets are designed for small vermin really . I think Gloucester will not grant a hmr for fox and rightly so . I don't really shoot fox now but honestly id not want to shoot them with anything less than a 22 hornet using a minimum 40 grain bullet . All quarry deserves some respect , this aint a dig , just how i feel . Hope your enjoying your new ventures ..

Out of interest why minimum 40 gr in the hornet?  35 gr v-max in my experience is an excellent bullet for foxes out to 150 yards, chest shoot them and they drop on the spot, pick them up and it sounds like a bag of soup! 

[Pellet Gun Pete]

Hi Boydy47, you've just opened another can of worms 😉

I've checked my license, I have .22RF rifle and just ".22" for ammunition lol

So, according to that I could purchase .223 ammo, but not shoot it?

Anyway, I've got another point that's making me think. The census of opinion says that the HMR is just about OK for fox at close range (100yds or less). The .22LR however is not. What about the .22LR shooting "Stingers", or other high velocity rounds. Looking at the figures, the power almost doubles from a subsonic at around 100fpe, and a Velocitor at almost 180fpe My guess is that if a fox was close (say 50yds) changing from a sub, to a high velocity round would be OK? (not ideal, but OK)

Pete

[Boydy47]

No, you'd struggle to buy any .22 centrefire rounds with '.22' on your ticket or even WMR, which is why I asked as the ammo allowance is often the limiting factor. When I put a WMR on my .22 RF slot I already had allowance for WMR as I had another rifle on there (I have 2 now, bolt action and a semi).

In terms of HV if you can find an accurate round then they will work but .22 is only really for very close range, 50 yards or preferably less. It is a capable but not overly suitable round.  

This is what a couple of us have said on power, 180 ft-lb sounds a lot when you are used to sub 12, it's not.  A lot are saying .22H is nearer the minimum and that is 7-800 ft-lb and only really extends your range 50-80 yards over the magnum rimfires.  My normal foxing round is .223AI that is 1350 ft-lb that will drop foxes cleanly beyond ranges a lot of people can shoot them accurately. 

The other factor is bullet performance, the HMR is often questioned because the tiny .17 17 or 20 bullets can blow on a rib on the way in, not reaching the vitals and leaving a nasty 'splash' wound. This is why people are recommending head shots only with HMR and fox.  

The .22lr rounds are a bigger bullet 35/40 grains but even with the HV rounds don't expand like CF varmint bullets. They will penetrate in and distort to some extent but you are completely reliant on penetrating something vital just as you do with an air rifle on smaller Quarry. A 35 gr out of a hornet will punch into the chest cavity and literally disintegrate inside, the kinetic energy is transferred far more efficiently as hydrostatic shock to the organs, breaking up organs hit and damaging surrounding areas doing far more damage causing a very quick demise for the fox. The WMR, depending on bullet choice is a half way house but less than half the energy and energy basically buys margin for error.  

Personally I've only shot a handful of foxes with .22, all with subs whilst out rabbiting, squeaked to 20-25 yards and hit in the brain, dead on impact. If you can get them into that range over say a bait point 36 grams of BBs from a 12 bore will work.  

[Bob57]

On 1/26/2019 at 2:33 AM, Pellet Gun Pete said:

Bought a CZ 452 .22lr from a local RFD. It's 20 years old, but in excellent condition. It came with a mod, and a slightly tatty 3-9x42 scope. £149! It shoots fine, but it's long barrel, plus the length of the mod, makes it look like a musket 😉 So I'm going to shorten the barrel to about 15 inches, and swap the scope.

Hoping to try for a fox with the hmr one evening next week.

I'm getting there slowly.

Pete

So how are you getting on with the hmr on the foxes Pete??

[Pellet Gun Pete]

I've not managed to be close enough for a confident shot. One was about 80 yards away one night last week, but as soon as I tried to call it closer, it turned and ran. I'm going again tonight, hopefully I'll get one in closer.

 

Pete

[Bob57]

Get a bait spot going,then you won't have to try squeaking them.

[Paul Cat]

On 2/21/2019 at 8:36 AM, Pellet Gun Pete said:

... as soon as I tried to call it closer, it turned and ran.

 

 

Sounds like the effect I have on women. 😀

 

Coincidentally, I shot my first fox with the .17hmr last week. Like you Pete I've not been close enough before to be happy that I'd get a clean kill so let them be but I was out at night after rabbits using the the Pard night vision attachment on my scope. 

 

I was working my way along a hedge line toward the corner of the field, stopping to look ahead every ten yards or so, when I saw the fox poking around beneath the hedge running out of the corner left to right (if that makes sense). With the wind in my face I thought I could get closer, especially as he was having a good old sniff at something on the ground, and I managed to 70 yards. With the rifle on sticks and him standing side on I took a heart/lung shot and he dropped on the spot. By the time I got there, a few seconds, he'd moved about ten feet but was very dead.

I like Bob's idea to set bait though, save me chasing the buggers all over the county, and I have two perfect spots in mind.....

[Montey]

If your new to fox control or not I strongly recommend reading A Foxers Year by Patrick Hook it has become the foxers bible as it were for any one. 

Other good reads are Foxing with lamp and rifle by Robert Bucknell and A Foxing Life by Mike Powell Ide been Foxing for years and found these books both insightful and interesting reads. 

 

 

[sam39]

34 minutes ago, Montey said:

If your new to fox control or not I strongly recommend reading A Foxers Year by Patrick Hook it has become the foxers bible as it were for any one. 

Other good reads are Foxing with lamp and rifle by Robert Bucknell and A Foxing Life by Mike Powell Ide been Foxing for years and found these books both insightful and interesting reads. 

 

 

I have A Foxers year plus Going foxing by Robert Bucknell and read them a few times they were very helpful. I can supply if you like £25 delivered

any good to anyone? 

[Bob57]

13 hours ago, Paul Cat said:

 

 

Sounds like the effect I have on women. 😀

 

Coincidentally, I shot my first fox with the .17hmr last week. Like you Pete I've not been close enough before to be happy that I'd get a clean kill so let them be but I was out at night after rabbits using the the Pard night vision attachment on my scope. 

 

I was working my way along a hedge line toward the corner of the field, stopping to look ahead every ten yards or so, when I saw the fox poking around beneath the hedge running out of the corner left to right (if that makes sense). With the wind in my face I thought I could get closer, especially as he was having a good old sniff at something on the ground, and I managed to 70 yards. With the rifle on sticks and him standing side on I took a heart/lung shot and he dropped on the spot. By the time I got there, a few seconds, he'd moved about ten feet but was very dead.

I like Bob's idea to set bait though, save me chasing the buggers all over the county, and I have two perfect spots in mind.....

Well done Paul on your first fox😃, was good that it didn't go far,they won't all go down like that with the hmr though.  One thing for you new foxers,don't forget there'll soon be cubs about, if not already, so if you don't need to clear foxes off land or don't want a litter of cubs underground with no mum on your conscience😓,leave them alone at this time of year, or have someone who can deal with the cubs.