Scotch_egg Posted October 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Moorlander said: I suppose theres a " Walting " value to some. Of course it’s all about wanting to be Chris Ryan et al now where can I buy some multi cam pyjama’s???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Funny you should mention that mr C. I get a lot of squaddie customers. The british army is made up of 50% snipers, the other 50% are in 22 Reg. ? Fitted a 9mm mod to a ruger 77 .357 last week. The guy was a guinea pig for a local club who have noise issues. They simply want to carry on shooting. The club has been there for over 50 years. The local, ever encroaching housing estates...haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 When you "think" you need hearing protection (plugs/defenders etc) and when you actually need them are two entirely different things The 2005 Noise at work regulations stipulate that hearing protection must be provided at noise levels of 85dB and above A firearm discharging is around 150dB and most suppressors reduce that by around 28-32dB, which still gives a sound level of 120dB, which is 35dB over the safe working limit, but because the gunshot report is so brief, people think they're OK, but it is accumulative and damage does and will occur, so while you think you are comfortable with sound at that level because it's milliseconds, if it was constant then you'd be in trouble A sound moderator does a good job of reducing noise, but if one is perceived to be better than the other, is 118dB really that much safer than 122dB? We all still do it though I worked in industry for 35 years and was subjected to this, I have constant ringing in my left ear from exposure, in later years we became more aware, so I know a little on the subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reecy Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Add this to your thinking, noise measurement is based on a logarithmic scale, that means that a 1dB increase in measured sound is actually 3 times the noise being produced in the first place not just one additional unit So please do bear that in mind when dismissing the use of hearing protection, it is quite useful to use two types of hearing protection like compressible sponge buds and electronic ear phones or use nothing and go deaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Reecy said: Add this to your thinking, noise measurement is based on a logarithmic scale, that means that a 1dB increase in measured sound is actually 3 times the noise being produced in the first place not just one additional unit So please do bear that in mind when dismissing the use of hearing protection, it is quite useful to use two types of hearing protection like compressible sponge buds and electronic ear phones or use nothing and go deaf Not just noise, but pressure levels This is interesting, a car on a motorway is around 70dB, a suppressed gunshot of 120dB is 32 times louder! http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.com/comparative-noise-examples.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee w 118 Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 hours ago, bradders said: When you "think" you need hearing protection (plugs/defenders etc) and when you actually need them are two entirely different things The 2005 Noise at work regulations stipulate that hearing protection must be provided at noise levels of 85dB and above A firearm discharging is around 150dB and most suppressors reduce that by around 28-32dB, which still gives a sound level of 120dB, which is 35dB over the safe working limit, but because the gunshot report is so brief, people think they're OK, but it is accumulative and damage does and will occur, so while you think you are comfortable with sound at that level because it's milliseconds, if it was constant then you'd be in trouble A sound moderator does a good job of reducing noise, but if one is perceived to be better than the other, is 118dB really that much safer than 122dB? We all still do it though I worked in industry for 35 years and was subjected to this, I have constant ringing in my left ear from exposure, in later years we became more aware, so I know a little on the subject I beg your pardon i didnt quite catch that bradders,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 12 hours ago, bradders said: When you "think" you need hearing protection (plugs/defenders etc) and when you actually need them are two entirely different things The 2005 Noise at work regulations stipulate that hearing protection must be provided at noise levels of 85dB and above A firearm discharging is around 150dB and most suppressors reduce that by around 28-32dB, which still gives a sound level of 120dB, which is 35dB over the safe working limit, but because the gunshot report is so brief, people think they're OK, but it is accumulative and damage does and will occur, so while you think you are comfortable with sound at that level because it's milliseconds, if it was constant then you'd be in trouble A sound moderator does a good job of reducing noise, but if one is perceived to be better than the other, is 118dB really that much safer than 122dB? We all still do it though I worked in industry for 35 years and was subjected to this, I have constant ringing in my left ear from exposure, in later years we became more aware, so I know a little on the subject Yup. Have to say though, I've tried/heard some shockers that don't even give the (false) impression of being ear safe.... one particular Brit brand leaps to mind. As regards diminishing returns on firearms launching supersonic projectiles, I'm not sure I understand where the similarly logarithmic increased cash spend chasing the Nth degree of suppression sits against the realities of supersonic crack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Gents, Do not go by the ‘advertised’ dB levels nor the rumoured ‘X dB gives Y times as and indication of improvement or performance? I work in and industry that generates ‘sound’ as its principle product - and lots of it! It all depends what you are talking about, ‘loudness’’ etc. See here: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm which determines the effect of the dB’s you are using. And how, in some cases, it’s measured: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/decibel-d_59.html The latter being more important, like the ‘claims’ of some scope manufacturers when the say ‘94% light transmission’ - without the way in which it is measured it is meaningless (but folks still go for it) Just saying! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, terryh said: Gents, Do not go by the ‘advertised’ dB levels nor the rumoured ‘X dB gives Y times as and indication of improvement or performance? I work in and industry that generates ‘sound’ as its principle product - and lots of it! It all depends what you are talking about, ‘loudness’’ etc. See here: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm which determines the effect of the dB’s you are using. And how, in some cases, it’s measured: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/decibel-d_59.html The latter being more important, like the ‘claims’ of some scope manufacturers when the say ‘94% light transmission’ - without the way in which it is measured it is meaningless (but folks still go for it) Just saying! Terry You ruin everything with your truth and proven facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted October 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 17 hours ago, Breacher said: If thats the case - very quiet - quieter than my Ase Utra which is what I compared it to. Do you know if they are they the Ti model? Your direct experience of an Oceania Mod is what I was looking to obtain. The mark 1 ear doing the comparison and not some machine where quite clearly there are all sorts of science factors that will cause inconsistencies is far more informative for my needs. I would hate to be be left in the same boat as the owners of the product Brown Dog refers to, that was utterly crap and was hardly any different shot being fired from an unmoderated rifle. Also the fact the NRA will be putting a few rounds through the Oceania’s throughout a days McQeens shooting they must be standing up pretty well. It’s not all about DB suppression. Gas flow management, durability and weight are all factors when choosing a silencer. For me it is much more pleasant to put a shot down range through a silencer rather than a muzzle brake or naked muzzle due to the pressure generated, that’s a personal choice. On range hearing protection should be worn because there will firearms present that don’t use silencers. When stalking/hunting the use of a silencer will often be enough for people to choose to for go hearing protection. The amount time of exposure to a dangerous level of sound is very short and there are other factors that will also have a bearing on the hazard, such as being behind the muzzle report and not having the sonic crack going over head. I believe it has been acknowledged for some time that manufactures DB reduction claims are not to be taken at face value. However the link I posted to a review by the New Zealand magazine appears to have been conducted on a level playing field in terms of the same conditions etc whether or not this has been viewed by recent posters I’m not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Moorlander no problem, it was for a purely selfish reason, I had no popcorn to hand to whatch the ensuing arguments Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Scotch Postvwas not aimed at the article, just to level the playing field re some of the relevance of the values being banded round. re link you gave and the values given, they are indeed fine as a basic ‘apples for apples ‘ test as you say all done using the same set up. Just a shame they did not say which dB filter setting on the B&K test gear was being used ? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Scotch_egg said: Do you know if they are they the Ti model? Your direct experience of an Oceania Mod is what I was looking to obtain. The mark 1 ear doing the comparison and not some machine where quite clearly there are all sorts of science factors that will cause inconsistencies is far more informative for my needs. I would hate to be be left in the same boat as the owners of the product Brown Dog refers to, that was utterly crap and was hardly any different shot being fired from an unmoderated rifle. Also the fact the NRA will be putting a few rounds through the Oceania’s throughout a days McQeens shooting they must be standing up pretty well. It’s not all about DB suppression. Gas flow management, durability and weight are all factors when choosing a silencer. For me it is much more pleasant to put a shot down range through a silencer rather than a muzzle brake or naked muzzle due to the pressure generated, that’s a personal choice. On range hearing protection should be worn because there will firearms present that don’t use silencers. When stalking/hunting the use of a silencer will often be enough for people to choose to for go hearing protection. The amount time of exposure to a dangerous level of sound is very short and there are other factors that will also have a bearing on the hazard, such as being behind the muzzle report and not having the sonic crack going over head. I believe it has been acknowledged for some time that manufactures DB reduction claims are not to be taken at face value. However the link I posted to a review by the New Zealand magazine appears to have been conducted on a level playing field in terms of the same conditions etc whether or not this has been viewed by recent posters I’m not sure. I’m not sure if a Ase Utra on a 16” barrelled LMT vs s Oceania on a 26” AT is a true comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 The bottom line being any doctor/hearing specialist will tell you to wear defenders even with a moderator on most calibres and when you get to the bigger stuff like 300WM and above you should wear ear plugs and ear defenders , and as we all know no moderator can get rid of the super sonic crack so there's not much to argue about regarding dB reduction if you are wearing defenders when using a mod. The only time you want the best moderator is when you use subsonic ammo or you storm embassy`s for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breacher Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Scotch_egg said: Do you know if they are they the Ti model? Your direct experience of an Oceania Mod is what I was looking to obtain. The mark 1 ear doing the comparison and not some machine where quite clearly there are all sorts of science factors that will cause inconsistencies is far more informative for my needs. I would hate to be be left in the same boat as the owners of the product Brown Dog refers to, that was utterly crap and was hardly any different shot being fired from an unmoderated rifle. Also the fact the NRA will be putting a few rounds through the Oceania’s throughout a days McQeens shooting they must be standing up pretty well. It’s not all about DB suppression. Gas flow management, durability and weight are all factors when choosing a silencer. For me it is much more pleasant to put a shot down range through a silencer rather than a muzzle brake or naked muzzle due to the pressure generated, that’s a personal choice. On range hearing protection should be worn because there will firearms present that don’t use silencers. When stalking/hunting the use of a silencer will often be enough for people to choose to for go hearing protection. The amount time of exposure to a dangerous level of sound is very short and there are other factors that will also have a bearing on the hazard, such as being behind the muzzle report and not having the sonic crack going over head. I believe it has been acknowledged for some time that manufactures DB reduction claims are not to be taken at face value. However the link I posted to a review by the New Zealand magazine appears to have been conducted on a level playing field in terms of the same conditions etc whether or not this has been viewed by recent posters I’m not sure. No idea if Ti or not - I just remember being at the match and the moderators were very quiet indeed ! 7 hours ago, Scotch_egg said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted October 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 I have had it confirmed that the models used on the NRA Accuracy International AT’s is the light weight alpine. They are not designed for range use and have done well but need replacing and will probably be replaced with the inconel ratchet model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiew Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Hi all after 36 years in the chemical industry when it was frowned upon to wear ear plugs as the lads would call you a pussy , and now on a plant where ear protection is mandatory and I have routinely been tested every 2 years . I now have a noticeable hearing dip in the graph and constant tinnitus and have only been shooting 3 years also done 20 years of motorcyles without hearing protection so that will not of helped . point is take care of your hearing and use the best gear with the highest protection available . Only good point is I cant hear the washing machine / dishwasher beeping to say its finished - drives the wife nuts ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 On 10/21/2018 at 7:08 AM, bradders said: The 2005 Noise at work regulations stipulate that hearing protection must be provided at noise levels of 85dB and above A firearm discharging is around 150dB and most suppressors reduce that by around 28-32dB, which still gives a sound level of 120dB, which is 35dB over the safe working limit,.. I'm afraid you're comparing apples with elephants there Bradders, The 85 limit applies to std continuous noise, not impulse noise. The mechanism of damage is different for each type of noise. The internationally accepted threshold for impulse noise is that no-one should be subjected to -peak- levels of 140 dB-SPL. You cannot do simple arithmetic on attenuated impulse noise then apply that figure to limits on continuous noise. I am a semi-retired clinical audiologist and have written articles on this very subject in case you're wondering why I'm commenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejcb Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Have used the OD suppressors on a few firearms, a 9x19 pistol, a .45 ACP pistol, a .45 ACP HK UMP, a 5.56 M4, a 5.56 VHS Bullpup, a 5.56 HK 53 and also on a .308 AI. They are very lightweight - titanium and inconel, and do a good job during automatic fire. Those are my 2 pennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapua Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Cant beat a good old T8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 They are VERY light in weight , I know the designer , all the AI rifles on the website are mine , I think I was the 1st person to ever fire a 3d printed TI suppressor on a 338LM rifle , I use them on my AIs , they are made to go on the newer large 2 chamber AI Tac muzzle breaks , and use 2 slightly spaced hi-temp orings to keep the can in place , I use them in 308,300 & 338LM , as well as a QD 308 model on a hunting rifle . They use sound meter that has a fast rise time to get correct readings & actually calibrate for temp as well . Later Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 On 10/19/2018 at 11:34 PM, Scotch_egg said: Mark you never fail to entertain. You are just to witty. Off topic briefly....... More of an acquired taste... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, chaz said: Off topic briefly....... More of an acquired taste... Would you like to come for a tasting session? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 19 hours ago, bradders said: Would you like to come for a tasting session? Meaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 To see if you can acquire my taste ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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