Rebarrel Recommendations | 223 1:8 Twist

[Elliott]

Toying with the idea of getting my T3 Varmint rebarreled in a tight twist so that I can launch some heavier bullets for long-range varminting. Been looking at the higher BC bullets, namely the Sierra 77gr TMK's.

 

What barrels would you recommend, what price should I expect to pay and can you recommend anyone local to me?

 

Many Thanks

[VarmLR]

Don't know who's close to you, but I had my .223 barrel changed last year for a Lothar-Walther 26 inch match contour 1/8 in a high grade LW50 stainless. It shoots better than I'm probably capable of (my best was a .18 using this barrel, but I'm no match shooter), but fair to say it's 1/4 moa capable. It'll handle 77's no problems but my go-to round from it is the 69 TMK. For long range varmining, match bullets are obviously not the best first choice. You might do ok with TMKs, as whilst they are not recommended for hunting game, they have gained a reputation as a good varminting round. For a pure varminting round, the 60gr flat base V-max takes some beating and is deadly accurate and reliable to 350 yds with ease.

 

Cost wise, including threading, chambering to your preferred throat length, mounting and matt finishing, expect to pay around £700.

[gunner]

An 8 twist would handle 80 grain projectiles so lesser 75-77 ? Personally id not try another walther i paid allot for one and it shot no better than the factory barrel it replaced , and it was a biich to clean ! Could of been a bad one but , but is your choice at end of the day . I now use a kriger on my .20 ( limited manufacturer on 20 cals ) and its pricey but its much better for cleaning , 7-8 patches . Would recommend them . On my other is a pac-nor and that cleans easy too , however there a bit cheaper i think . Ill be getting another pac-nor for a .17 at some point . The other thing some smiths wont machine walther i think being harder steel , harder to cut maybe . Thats the 3 makes i use . However id like to try others come re-barrel time . Prices ? Best to talk to the smiths near you . Atb

[VarmLR]

An 8 twist would handle 80 grain projectiles so lesser 75-77 ? Personally id not try another walther i paid allot for one and it shot no better than the factory barrel it replaced , and it was a biich to clean ! Could of been a bad one but , but is your choice at end of the day . I now use a kriger on my .20 ( limited manufacturer on 20 cals ) and its pricey but its much better for cleaning , 7-8 patches . Would recommend them . On my other is a pac-nor and that cleans easy too , however there a bit cheaper i think . Ill be getting another pac-nor for a .17 at some point . The other thing some smiths wont machine walther i think being harder steel , harder to cut maybe . Thats the 3 makes i use . However id like to try others come re-barrel time . Prices ? Best to talk to the smiths near you . Atb

 

 

I agree that the L-W barrels can be a pig to clean but don't understand why. If kept clean, my .223 shoots better than anything else I've used. If left for more than 70 rounds, groups start to open up. It also requires one or two shots from clean to get it onto POA. L-W's are button rifled and lapped so should have a decent finish, so unsure why some seem to collect carbon fouling like it's going out of fashion!

 

LW-50 provides possibly one of the best durability and corrosion resistant materials used for barrels, noted for long barrel life and used by AI and others, but has a reputation for being harder to machine, requiring special reamers. I'm not completely sure but think that LW50 is just Lothars' designation for the SAE type 630 stainless steel more commonly referred to as 17-4 stainless,

 

(data sheet here: http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/17-4_ph_data_sheet.pdf)

 

Other reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17-4_stainless_steel

 

I believe that it was developed in the mid 90's. I don't know what other barrel manufacturer uses it.

[Big Al]

 

 

I agree that the L-W barrels can be a pig to clean but don't understand why. They are button rifled and lapped so should have a decent finish. LW-50 provides possibly one of the best durability and corrosion resistant materials used for barrels, noted for long barrel life and used by AI and others, but has a reputation for being harder to machine, requiring special reamers. I'm not completely sure but think that LW50 is just Lothars' designation for the SAE type 630 stainless steel more commonly referred to as 17-4 stainless,

 

 

 

 

Walther blanks are quite hard for sure but there are no special reamers required, this hardness can indeed promote longer barrel life and the Walther barrels Ive used have shot very well indeed. Some people dont like them because they use the reamer as a drill/form tool to remove all the material to form the chamber, that can be hard on the reamer with a Walther barrel although you will find guys still happy to use them. If you pre-bore the chamber close to final size then use the reamer to establish the final chamber dimensions I dont find them too hard to work with.

 

That said, if I was a customer it wouldn't be swayed either way between Walther, Sassen or Bergara. All of these barrels as a rebarrel job should come in at the same price point as they all cost the same within a few pounds and all will shoot as well as the other in my experience. I would go with whatever was available in the length/profile/twist that you require within the time frame you are prepared to wait and with the rifle builder you prefer to use.

 

I charge £750 for a rebarrel with any of these barrels which includes proof, throating to spec, muzzle threading and invisible cap, give or take a little this is the going rate.

[VarmLR]

Thanks Al for the confirmation RE machining. Nothing like getting it from the horse's mouth. Any thoughts on some of the cleaning issues with the rifling? (perhaps it's just the smaller calibres as most of my small cals irrespective of barrel maker seem to foul worse than my larger ones).

[palo]

I have a Lothar Walther stainless barrel on my 204.

Fouling is not a problem and I find it very easy to clean with no noticeable change in point of impact from a clean barrel.

It is also very accurate.

[Big Al]

Thanks Al for the confirmation RE machining. Nothing like getting it from the horse's mouth. Any thoughts on some of the cleaning issues with the rifling? (perhaps it's just the smaller calibres as most of my small cals irrespective of barrel maker seem to foul worse than my larger ones).

 

 

Some powders are dirtier than others, I can't say Ive seen any real issues with Walther barrels over other button rifled barrels.

 

I had a funny thing happened a couple of months ago, which I can't explain. I re-chambered a 6.5x47 Kreiger barrel that had fired some 1200 rounds, again in 6.5x47, I didn't do the first chamber job. The user who is a very experienced shooter swears the rifle is much easier to clean now than it was as well as being more accurate. Dont ask me to explain the cleaning improvement, I make no claims to have knowingly done anything to make it clean easier but he says it does and noticeably, funny things these rifle barrels at times

[Ronin]

Toying with the idea of getting my T3 Varmint rebarreled in a tight twist so that I can launch some heavier bullets for long-range varminting. Been looking at the higher BC bullets, namely the Sierra 77gr TMK's.

 

What barrels would you recommend, what price should I expect to pay and can you recommend anyone local to me?

 

Many Thanks

 

 

 

An 8 twist will suit your application.

 

Most barrel manufacturers offer this twist rate or faster.

 

The price would be dependant on barrel maker (the US makes are slightly more expensive and you will pay more for cut rifled over button - though if you are intending to use the rifle for non competition purposes you will not notice the difference.

 

Suggest you contact several rifle builders and assess their work / customer interface / recommendations etc.

 

 

There are numerous builders on here, suggest you PM them

[PaulC]

If it's a 1 in 12 factory barrel in a std stock and you haven't got any custom gun smithing money invested in it and it's not been hammered you may as well sell it and buy a new Tikka t3 in a 1 in 8 twist it will probley be cheaper and less agro.

Paul

[markymark]

Question I've been meaning to ask for a while. I have Tikka Rifles, and am very happy with them. But where do Tikka / Sako barrels sit in quality hierarchy out of interest. Compared to Kreiger, LW, Sassen etc. Let's say for argument sake a rebarrel was the same price as buying let's say a Tikka off the shelf, assuming they had the length, profile and twist you wanted?

[bully]

I would trade in for the 1:8 tikka as well. Cheaper and tikkas usually shoot well. There 1:8 will shoot 80's.

[VarmLR]

Tikka barrels are great.

 

 

 

Some powders are dirtier than others, I can't say Ive seen any real issues with Walther barrels over other button rifled barrels.

 

I had a funny thing happened a couple of months ago, which I can't explain. I re-chambered a 6.5x47 Kreiger barrel that had fired some 1200 rounds, again in 6.5x47, I didn't do the first chamber job. The user who is a very experienced shooter swears the rifle is much easier to clean now than it was as well as being more accurate. Dont ask me to explain the cleaning improvement, I make no claims to have knowingly done anything to make it clean easier but he says it does and noticeably, funny things these rifle barrels at times

 

I shoot the same powders as I use for my 308 (n140) but that barrel (T3) is a doddle to clean and doesn't seem to foul as badly. N140 I've found to be pretty clean burning, but for some reason, the .223 just fouls quite badly if only using patches (it needs a good brushing every few hundred rounds irrespective of whether it's been patched out after every use). Still a very accurate barrel. Very odd about the cleaning improvement with a re-chamber!

 

 

If it's a 1 in 12 factory barrel in a std stock and you haven't got any custom gun smithing money invested in it and it's not been hammered you may as well sell it and buy a new Tikka t3 in a 1 in 8 twist it will probley be cheaper and less agro.
Paul

 

That or simply buy a new Tikka T3 1/8 barrel as the OP already owns a Tikka.

[baldie]

Varm,

I would suggest you may not have a lapped LW.

Walther do [or did ] two grades...there are a lot about that are not lapped, because it costs extra. If its a pig to clean, it could be one of these. LW barrels usually are very clean running barrels if they are the best spec.

No harder to machine than anything else, providing you know your speeds/feeds, and use the correct cutting oils. I always use carbide reamers on them personally.

Out of all the calibres they do, a 1 in 8" .223 is not one I would use a LW on. I,ve seen two lately that would not shoot for toffee.

 

I build an awful lot of fast twist .223's and usually on Sassen blanks [ 3 going to proof this week alone ] The reamer you need is a .223 Wylde.

 

Dave Kiff, knows what he's doing when he designs the throat....it will cover a range of bullets, but will be optimised around 62 grains upwards. The wylde leade suits 77 grain bullets very well.

 

No point in pushing out the throat to suit the longest bullet the twist will shoot, as 500 rounds down it, and you won't get near the lands.

 

Compromise in throat length is never a bad thing.

 

Feel free to give me a ring If I can help, but looking at where you are in Lancaster, Ronin, is on your doorstep.

[snakeman]

Question I've been meaning to ask for a while. I have Tikka Rifles, and am very happy with them. But where do Tikka / Sako barrels sit in quality hierarchy out of interest. Compared to Kreiger, LW, Sassen etc. Let's say for argument sake a rebarrel was the same price as buying let's say a Tikka off the shelf, assuming they had the length, profile and twist you wanted?

 

Not every custom barrel is perfect, neither are all factory barrels

 

But give the custom barrel to a shooter who knows the gun and knows how to shoot, and you can bet your life you'd be convinced that a factory barrel is inferior.

 

Conversely, give the custom barrel to a shooter who doesn't know the gun, and can't shoot, and you'd be convinced a factory barrel is as good as a custom barrel

 

A new rifle every time, thank you very much

[VarmLR]

double post..

 

[VarmLR]

Varm,

I would suggest you may not have a lapped LW.

Walther do [or did ] two grades...there are a lot about that are not lapped, because it costs extra. If its a pig to clean, it could be one of these. LW barrels usually are very clean running barrels if they are the best spec.

No harder to machine than anything else, providing you know your speeds/feeds, and use the correct cutting oils. I always use carbide reamers on them personally.

Out of all the calibres they do, a 1 in 8" .223 is not one I would use a LW on. I,ve seen two lately that would not shoot for toffee.

 

I build an awful lot of fast twist .223's and usually on Sassen blanks [ 3 going to proof this week alone ] The reamer you need is a .223 Wylde.

 

Dave Kiff, knows what he's doing when he designs the throat....it will cover a range of bullets, but will be optimised around 62 grains upwards. The wylde leade suits 77 grain bullets very well.

 

No point in pushing out the throat to suit the longest bullet the twist will shoot, as 500 rounds down it, and you won't get near the lands.

 

Compromise in throat length is never a bad thing.

 

Feel free to give me a ring If I can help, but looking at where you are in Lancaster, Ronin, is on your doorstep.

 

 

Thanks for the heads up Baldie. I agree RE chambering for the .223 and have kept mine quite modest for the reasons you mention. It'll handle up to 80gr no problem in VLD profiles. I checked and it was meant to have been a lapped barrel. Mind you, not really complaining as it's a shooter. Was very accurate today at 400 yds, shooting sub moa, so very happy with its accuracy. I think the problem I was having was simply not leaving the Wipeout in long enough to do its job properly. Since leaving it for several hours, the problem's almost gone away, now that I started again with a properly clean bore.

[baldie]

One of my AI,s has a walther on it Varm. Its shoots well...its no hammer, but a good honest barrel. It cleans beautifully though. I'm of the "clean gun every time you've shot it, brigade "

 

This ensures the barrel never gets really fouled, i.e., carbon baked onto copper.

 

Most think the copper has gone, but haven't actually got through the carbon.

 

After many years of trying just about everything on the market, I came to the conclusion that the best regime was KG1 on patches, and soaked for half an hour. Followed by wet patched sweets for 15 minutes. That will remove everything, on a regularly cleaned barrel.

 

It also gives a clean cold bore shot of 1/4" left , on the first round only.

[VarmLR]

I'm with you there. My personal cleaning regime is KG1 soaked for 20 minutes to half an hour, patched through followed by Wipeout, patch applied and then nylon brushed and left for an hour before patching through. I know that Wipeout is meant to be an all-in-one but I've always used KG-1 as a carbon fouling remover and know it's very effective. The way I figure it, it allows Wipeout to do a better job on any copper removal and barrel conditioning (same if using M-Pro 7 which I also have). I appreciate that a few shots won't result in any copper fouling but old habits die hard!

 

I was out yesterday with the rifle and after returning did my usual cleaning regime only to find annoyingly some small traces of grey on the patches, yet I'd only fired 5 r 6 rounds!

 

I am eternally embarrassed to admit that I've found the cause of the cleaning mystery...The boreguide which I thought was firmly in, had a slight gap between it and the end of the chamber because the O-ring that seals it was just a tad too large to allow it to be fully pushed home. The rags, when being patched through have picked up muck from the gap (I normally clean the chamber out after boreguide removal to ensure no solution is left there). I proved this by removing the bore guide, using fine finishing paper to remove a small amount from the o-ring and then fully pushing it home. Patches came through clean as they had gone in. I bought the bore guide to replace an old one that got damaged at about the same time I bought the barrel. I hate to think what cleaning solution I've wasted in that time! To rub salt in, I've recently replaced the o-ring on the guide, the old one being as stiff as the new one up to the day it snapped...

 

It still won't make me alter my cleaning regime as I agree that carbon is a little more stubborn to properly remove than perhaps many think.