neck or full length sizing

[nuttyspaniel]

Is there much difference in either neck or full length sizing cases! The reason I ask is that is there any real great difference of accuracy for field work? Have you seen or experianced any differences?

[Spiderman]

Hi N S

Personally i like to neck size as it is just easier and then full length ,when cases get tight . but if you load for more than 1 rifle in the same caliber full length is safer .

There is an interesting article on the precision rifle website where Vince Bottomly recconds that full lengthed cases are more accurate in factory rifles as the chambers are not cut as precisely and full length sizing allows for better case alignment .?????????

Dunno !!!!!!!.

Get a custom rifle and neck size the bugger .Then just shoot the thing.

 

Spider

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

Vince Bottomly recconds that full lengthed cases are more accurate in factory rifles as the chambers are not cut as precisely and full length sizing allows for better case alignment .?????????

Dunno !!!!!!!.

 

 

this can be both true and false

 

what you need to do is check a fireformed case on a runout guage, mine reads 1/10 th thou, check the run out after firing

 

two of my factory guns have bugger all run out so I can neck size and one has 4thou runout so I can only full length size

 

reason being is that the chamber in last gun mentioned has obviously had chamber cut un-concentric to the neck and bore therefore if I used a fireformed neck sized case the bullet would show this run out on the guage and therefore the chances of being able to chamber the round in the same orientation as the run out in chamber is extremely slim so bullet and bore will be missaligned

 

my other two factory guns show little or no run out from chamber to bore and so neck sizing means that the case is formed to the chamber, bullet will be held central to the bore and so "one" of the processes in the gun being fired has been removed(the swelling of the case to fit chamber before sufficient presure drives bullet out of the case

 

the problem with the 4thou gun also has a relationship with why a factory rifle may prefer saami spec seating for accuracy

 

many people will try to seat out to touch (or near) the lands as they see people with custom rifles doing so and may never be happy with the rifles accuracy

 

remember my rifle that has a 4thou runout? well that prefers seating at saami length and can shoot .25 moa(1/4 inch x five rounds at 100)

 

even though I full length size the brass to make everything true and concentric on the case to reduce runout and bore missalignment the gun itself still has runout and so allthough I have done everything I can to make the problem smaller its still there

 

this is why there are saami spec reloading data for factory built saami spec rifles

 

I have "reduced" run out or missalignment issues by full length sizing but its still there and to help correct this issue my factory rifle comes with a longer jump to the lands than a custom rifle would and this is called free bore

 

it is a small section of the barrels rifling that has been removed ie the lands have been ground away down to the groove size at the start of the rifling

 

my bullet is not loose- loose in this area but a snugish fit(try putting a bullet into the muzzle of your gun and you will see what I mean)

 

as I fire the gun and the bullet leaves the case it enters this free bore where it is centralized to rifling and any missalignment or wobble is removed before the rifling cuts its grooves in the bullet

 

if I hadnt seated at saami length then the bullet may be presented to the fifling on a tilt and so the rifling may cut grooves further back on the bullet on one side only and this would destry accuracy

 

hope this has helped and sorry for any spelling errors, at home feeling poorly at the mo

 

ja

[stag1933]

Hi Nutty.

For field use you will notice NO difference with either neck or full-length sizing.

The main problem here is where you get your brass, if it is from new cartridges fired in your own rifle neck sizing will be fine and as Spider says if or when it gets hard to chamber then full-length size.

If however you get fired brass from someone else you must full-length re-size the first time.

 

Some years ago there was a guy in Ireland who had a set of custom dies made for his 5.6x57 RWS cal. rifle.

That was fine for him and he had no problems.

Unfortunately he gave some of his bullets to another guy who was not a technical thinker. I was out hunting Sika with this chappie but on a different mountain.

He came upon a small Red Stag and put a shot into it breaking a forleg and the Staggie hobbled off as he was unable to extract the fired cartridge and chamber another.

I made my way over to the sound of the shot to help with the dragging but found my companion and no Stag.

Much later in the day we found the unfortunate animal and I dropped it. Had he been on his own the beast would have been lost.

 

The Moral to this tale is to always feed your ammo through your rifle before you go on a hunt and re-size any brass which you may be given by someone else.

HWH.

[Ronin]

Stag has touched on an important point.

 

NEVER accept ammunition loaded by a mate who has the same calibre rifle as yours if it has been resized using NECK Dies, they only form the neck, so if the chamber size is marginally difference at best the ammunition may not chamber, at worst it could lead to a blow up!

 

You should be ok if your friend uses Full Length dies.

 

Personally I prefer Neck Size dies, but I use Competition die sets so I am able to ajust the neck tension and amount of neck re-sized to suit my own chamberings.

 

Yes, this is not necessary for "normal / everyday use"

 

I have a RCBS Full length die set and Redding Comp Neck Dies set for my 25-06. This rifle has a standard chamber, but is at the tight end of the tolerances for SAAMI spec. I have neck turned the case necks only to make them concentric, not to any particular size although all are exactly the same neck thickness.

 

If I use the RCBS die set, I get groups in the order of 1 - 2 inches at 100 yards, run out when measured on my Sinclair guage is .015" to .025", which to be frank is crap.

 

When I use the Redding Die set (which I always do now), I get groups of sub half inch at 100 yards and runout is .005" - .010", yes that isnt BR or F-Class standard, but it does show me in that rifle that the extra cost of the dies is justified - To me anyway!

 

 

The only advantage that I can see with the F/L die set is I can make ammunition for other peoples rifles to their spec and know that it is safe to chamber.

 

Apologies if this confuses the issue Nutty.......

[Guest Smeagle]

Nutty let me try and put it in simple terms for you.

 

Target, varmint and precision shooting neck size. This is to fire form the case to the rifle and thus to maintain consistency in the loads.

 

Hunting and field use, full length re-size, this is so that the case will feed and extract easily. You may loose 1/4 moa accuracy but gain in reliability.

[Bambi-basher]

I neck size for load development,(to eliminate possible inconsistencies) once I have got my load I then full length size and crimp my bullet heads (Lee bullet crimp) for my stalking bullets, that way I know I have totally reliable ammo. Do run a full length sized case load though your gun just to make sure you still have no pressure problems and they do group nearly as well as your neck sized development load.

 

 

B-b

[nuttyspaniel]

All good valid points! But the reason I posted this question was to get a general view of what you lads do! I was having problems with bullet tension, and a mate recomended that I should full size as in his personal view lee collet dies for neck sizing werent to good. But the problem is now sorted!!!!! I just make sure I give the lever on the press a little extra and the end of the stroke!!! Again for any-one else thats think or starting to reload READ THE INSTRUCTIONS properly!!! I realise that using anothers homelaods or brass that hasnt been fire formed in my rifle are no no's.

[Guest rogern]

Nutty

 

My twopenneth worth, and I am not as experienced as some in this thread.

 

Repeating others: If it is just for your rifle then neck sizing is the way, if you buy a Lee Collet Die you dont even have to lube either, some people dont like them but i have used them on a 6.5x55, 25-06 & now the .308, if u look after them they work just fine.

 

NEVER EVER risk using live rounds reloaded by someone else, no matter how good they are.

 

ALWAYS ALWAYS check your case lengths after resizing whichever method u use, an overlong case is the single most common cause of explosions (the type u dont want!)

 

DO ALL THE RELOADING STAGES YOURSELF

 

Be safe

 

Regards

[Guest rogern]

Nutty

 

Sorry, should have read the rest of the posts.

 

Re the Lee Collet Die & neck tension.

 

take the mandrill out, put it in an electric drill and put the drill in a vise, get some of the finest 9grit) wet & dry and polish the mandrill to reduce the diameter by a thou or so. That has cured the tension probs, pressing down harder on the press handle aint the way really.

[nuttyspaniel]

The instructions tell you to apply some force when neck sizing, I wasnt!!!!!

[Guest rogern]

Please yourself nutty

 

The 'instructions' also state that by polishing the mandrill you will get better (more consistant) neck tension

 

You asked for help. you got it

[nuttyspaniel]

Please yourself nutty

 

Rog no need to chuck the dummy bud! I have no plans to take the mandrill down a thou as my metal skills arent too hot and if I take to much off then it shurly would be than too slack!

[Guest rogern]

No it wouldn't be too slack, polishing the mandrill would make sure that the jaws squeeze the neck perfectly. Most will tell you that Lees finishing is not too hot, a polish just perfects the job, I've done it to all 3 of the collet dies I've had.

 

The dummy is still firmly in place!!!

[nuttyspaniel]

Woops typing errors!!!! I meant I dont want to do the polishing as I may take too much of and that would lead to a higher tension in the neck and perhaps a rise in pressure!

[Guest rogern]

The cylinder in the die has slots cut in to it, when you apply pressure to the press the slots come together squeezing the case neck againat the mandrill, by polishing the mandrill you are merely making sure that the neck is squeezed to the right tension, with fine wet & dry you can not really 'take too much off'

 

But hey, if you are happy with whats you are getting, so be it, I was just giving you a tip based on my use of these dies for the last 5 years or so.

 

Enjoy your reloading

[foxshot]

All very intresting reading but what is the opinion on the 223 ackley improved would i benefit from neck sizing only,i will be receiving comp dies when my rifle is finished would i need a different die to neck size only and could i purchace the required die seperatley

[stag1933]

Hi.

You should be able to neck size with your ordinary dies by screwing the sizer die up one or two turns in the press.

Probably not acceptable to the gurus but has worked OK for me.

[Andrew]

RCBS has / had included instructions for neck sizing only with FL dies. They suggested setting the die by placing a US five cent piece between the die and the shell holder when the ram was fully raised. I believe that's about 3/32 of an inch. As to which it best, I can say that I prefer to hunt big game with FL sized cases. My big game rounds need not be bench rest accurate so if my groups open a tad it hardly matters. Shooting off hand can undo the best of my technical attentions.

 

I second the advice to not shoot anyone else's handloads. Foolish to offer, foolish to accept.~Andrew