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Rifle Barrels From Spain


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Theres a new kid on the block for custom rifle barrels in our own back yard, well almost! :lol:

 

I have just returned from Spain after visiting a barrel manufacturing plant in the North of the Country, the region, which doesnt need any introductions as its renown for making some of the finest Shotguns in the world.

 

Anyhow, I had an invitation to go and Visit Bergara Barrels to have a look round and see what all the fuss is about...

 

Well to say these barrels are custom made is and understatment having seen the performance of a 30-06 on the day, which shot at least 1/4" with a 5 shot group... :D Now that is something when you consider a cut rifle barrels performance as apposed to a button rifle barrel, all will be revealed below, well some of it. :o

 

Heres a little blurb on some of the process:

 

 

BARREL STRAIGHTENING

The first step to a precision Bergara Barrel is to begin with a straight bar of cylindrical steel. They inspect and straighten every barrel manufactured to a deviation of less than 4/1,000 (or .004”) of an inch. It is said some barrel manufacturers never even evaluate this aspect of a barrel and consequently hinder the barrel’s accuracy potential, not in this case I have to say.

 

 

DEEP HOLE DRILLING

Once the steel bar is straightened, the bar moves on to the deep hole drilling machine where a four spindle machine precisely drills the correct diameter hole. The process is automated and amazing to watch, let alone to see the accuracy of the work.

 

 

BARREL POLISHING

While most other barrel manufacturers move directly from deep hole drilling to the rifling process, all Bergara Barrels pass through three separate honing spindles. The honing spindles utilise diamond-tipped bits that polish the barrel’s interior surface to a mirror-like finish with a groove diameter deviation of less than 9/1,000 (or .009MM) of a millimeter. It’s the same result that many gunsmiths accomplish by hand-lapping a barrel. So picture the interior of a hand lapped barrel and you wont even be close to the precise nature of what these guys achieved. :lol:

 

 

BUTTON RIFLING

The final step to producing a Bergara Barrel is the button rifling process. A carbide rifling button is drawn through the barrel to produce the rifling grooves at the appropriate twist rate for each caliber.

 

 

STRESS RELIEVING

The final step in the production of Bergara Barrels is the stress relieving process. This part of the process ensures the steel is free of any stress after button rifling. The result of this five-step process is a precision barrel so accurate that you’ll never probably want to change all your barrels... B)

 

The only issue at the moment is the chamber offerings, well the isnt that bad but the twist rates are only available in 1-10, which is probably middle of the road and just about adequate, other twist rates will be offered as soon as is possible as will other calibres besides these:

 

22LR

22 Mag

224

6mm

7mm inc WSM

30 Cal inc WSM

 

All available in stainless and chromoly.

 

Well the writing might be on the wall for these chaps as their barrels are top notch quality. I have a shipment arriving next month for some rifles to be built on for test and to display at the CLA so we will see...!

 

I should also mention that these guys work very closely with Shilen Rifles who have spent a lot of time with them over the years. I am due a visit to Shilens in the near future...

 

 

Kal

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I am sure James will explain the difference but a bit like Border barrels they produce a top grade match barrel and then they produce the cheaper end Arches barrel,still better than a factory stick but not a top class match grade item,seems this firm is doing a similar thing

 

Funky,

Before JR tells you what you dont want to hear, please explain your reasoning why the archer is a cheaper non-match grade barrel and what barrels are you exactly comparing them to, or is it a case of because its cheaper, it cant be as good as a more expensive barrel.

 

Ian.

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When I was Diving for a living I was hooked up with a Spainish Girl for a while :) who I still am on good terms with , her father is mad on shooting and spends tens of thousands at it :D , they live not far from the factory by the look of it , I will drop him an email to see if he can get some prices,

They live about 30Ks from Bilbao towards San Sebastian, and Bilbao being an international airport it would be easy to pop over and take a look for myself :D

.

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When I was Diving for a living I was hooked up with a Spainish Girl for a while :) who I still am on good terms with , her father is mad on shooting and spends tens of thousands at it :D , they live not far from the factory by the look of it , I will drop him an email to see if he can get some prices,

They live about 30Ks from Bilbao towards San Sebastian, and Bilbao being an international airport it would be easy to pop over and take a look for myself :D

.

 

 

Thats good perhaps you could pick up my UK shipment whilst your there. :D

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go on Borders web site or better still call them,in fact call any of the barrel makers and ask them.or are you trying to spoil this thread with an alterior motive

 

 

Pete, can you define what a custom barrel will do over the button rifled, or better still the differnce between the custom and the button rifled barrel so everyone gets the benefit of the lowdown?

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Having personally inspected the barrels I was so impressed I ordered one. ;)

 

My own take on it is the Bergara have invested very heavily in there machinery in order to manufacture the very best quality barrels at a very completive price. Their computerised lapping machines do the job of the handing lapping you get in other manufactures top quality barrels, the difference is the computer does not come in with a bad head after a night on the beer and gets a bout of ICBA ect, :) every barrel made will be to a uniformed standard.

 

Whether that standard will match the very best other produce; well time will tell, but Ed Shilen knows a thing or two about building an accurate rifle. ;)

 

One problem I see is some people view there rifles and barrels like some women view hand bags ect. My sons girlfriend had a new purse a “Louis Buitton” it cost her £250, I told her that there were ones that were just as good in Asda George for a fiver, it didn’t go down well because it didn’t have the right label. :D

 

So if you want to have a Gucci barrel look else were, of cause if Bergara barrels start winning then they will come the must have barrel.

 

If they are too cheap Kal could do you a special bespoke Du-coated one with a pattern of your choice for a £1,000 and you can then brag about how good it must be because it cost you a £1,000. :D

 

I must say how good this site has become. lads on here when it first started were just interested with long range shooting and accurate rifles, now the very same lads are producing rifle stocks, chambering there own barrels, coating and importing new barrels, sourcing importing actions ect all at completive prices. Good on all you lads. :D

 

Best rgds

 

B-b

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James

Ask a gun smith

 

 

From what ive seen so far you will be hard pushed to beat these barrels, the lapping is that good the grooves are like mirrors and the lands are uniformed top to tail. Not only that I dont know many 30 cals that will print one hole groups in the first outing either...testiment to the the quality or just pure fluke? Time will tell for sure once the rifles are built and those in the know can test them.

 

I for one am up for having a cheaper but not inferior barrel to offer all the shooters who want value for money... Want GUCCI...buy a watch! :)

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James

as i have said and what the web sites ststes its clear they are mass producing barrels which will be far far batter than a facory item which is great, how they hold up to a custom hand lapped BR barrel is yet to be seen but as its been said Shilen knows his stuff but is still using his ols style methods insteasd of machines,

as to Bambi apasrt from kissing your ass you could sell anything and he would agree,sorry he aint no barrel expert,I bet Ive seen down more barrels then he has :)

as I have said they sound a good idea and with there guarntee of better accuracy you cant go wrong,now the true test as i have said will be have one fitted to a top class BR shooters rifle and not a pair of dumpties like me an bambi who shoot the odd paper target :D

 

Pete, yes they are mass producing barrels, BUT each one is identical to the last, the whole process is CNC machined.

 

Now are we saying a hand lapped barrel is better than a CNC lapped barrel? Im talking absolute perfection in the process.

 

Is Bamby kissing a*se or is he just adding to the thread as you do? OR is it that you just dont like hearing others views or seeing that there are guys on here that get out there and live the dream? :D

 

Once the 6.5 cals are done there are several barrels going to some top class shooters, but I still think it would be good to put you barrle up against one of these dont you think?

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Pete I am no expert as you say but I think JR is, but I have put my money were my mouth is even before James had secured the UK dealer rights to these barrels, so no arse kissing there, now we all know you are a legend with all thing relating to firearms, we have seen your expert opinion on stocks, barrels, custom rifles, and deer stalking ect. I’ll not mention the M word but what has happen to the brand you recommend?

 

While I am no expert on barrels, fair play I know a thing or to about engineering in general. I believe you know a thing or two about second hand car parts in genral.

 

Best rgds

 

B-b

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James

thats very kind of you to offer me a barrel and i will take you up on the offer I will advice you of the exact contour of my lastest barrel which hasnt been fired yet so it will be chambered with the exact same reamer and using the same smith and reloaded ammo.hell I may even come to Diggle if I can get passed the bouncers :)

I wouldnt say machine lapping is better than hand laping though,but persoanlly I will wait to see what out resident expert barrel maker JR says on the subject.as if I carry on with constructive comments I only get accused of picking on people again :D

Oh by the way James I live the dream on daily basis

 

Offer you a barrel at a cheap price, come on you wouldnt give me a spare engine for nowt now would you? ;)

 

Diggle, bouncers? christ I didnt realise that, you dont mean the sheep do you? :D Im sure you would be most welcome to come up and strutt your stuff and meet the some of the guys, the place is a bit querky but if I fit you wont have a problem. :D

 

Im sure JR will post if he feels the need.

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Pete

 

I have never said im an expert on barrels or shooting, nor do I post to that effect like some do. I have done plenty of shooting and like to think I am knowledgable to converse with. What I do try to do is have an open minded approach when posting taking into consideration opinions of others, unlike some people.

 

Now this thread was to inform everyone about a new barrel, well a new barrel not hand lapped but better than a factory one. :) They will be at a good price not the GUCCI type, as I said if you want GUCCI by a watch. :D

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Ian

this is the last I will post on this untill JR has been on to commnet as he is an expert in this field,but I will try to answer your question

the difference between a top class barrel is how many comps its won,its a simple as that,there is no conclusive proof that I know of but Iam sure JR is best to comment that a button cut or single point cut barrel is no better or worse then one another,But I do beleive that when your spending UK prices on having a barrel fitted chambered secrw cut polished and proofed I think it would be better to start with a make that has a prooven track record

I do beleive that hand lapped barrel is far batter than a machined one as there no accounting for a true trades man.

That is what Iam basing my opinions on after spending hours and hours and phone call all over the world to find out what is needed hence my choice of rilfes I now own

"you dont buy Ferrarri and run in on remoulds"

 

Thanks for your opinions, just as a matter of interest what barrels did you choose for your custom rifles? (apart from the tube from the unmentionable one)

 

Ian.

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Just had a look at the video, I'd heard of the place and knew Ed helped them set up, but they've outdone themselves to produce a production barrel with very good operating standards, gave me a few ideas here actually. There's a few things I don't care for in their process, straightening the barrels prior to drilling often imparts stresses in the steel unevenly, moves things around, where I'd personally probably employ an additional stress relief or cryo cycle there to calm the steel down after straightening, get to more homogenous state prior to drilling...But that's no biggie.

 

Handlapping a custom barrel is different than cnc honing, as they are only honing the finish and diameter of the bore diameter, which will finish out the tops of the lands. But clean lands will clean better, no doubt. Starting with clean bore diameter means they won't likely iron ripples into the groove surface, which is a good thing as well. Some people can't sharpen a reamer properly and get chatter marks up the bore, which ends up in the grooves in cold forming type rifling, which is why they probably went the honing direction. Takes a little longer, but that's why they have 3 hones I reckon. And it is nice to see them checking the bore diameter afterward for uniformity.

 

I don't see anything wrong with trying their barrels out, it would be interesting to know what grades of stainless and cro moly they are using. If the price was right, hell why not buy a barrel made by robots. I think the main thing is they have the principle right, because they went to someone like Ed Shilen to help them get it set up right. If he's not happy, you'd see it on his face, so yeah good on the Spaniards..Their CMM was interesting, they definitely have some good equipment..

 

Funky, I won't get in to which process makes the better barrel, because by your standards of winning comps, button rifled barrels rule the roost, hahah, and I can't say things like that...Well, maybe i can nowadays. Remember , they can produce barrels at a ratio of 10:1 over the cut rifling. People are going to buy what they can get, and if you have the ability to flood the market as such, sure.. Tony Boyer goes thru a lot of Shilens before he finds his hummer, then he stuck with it, gets a few in screws the pipes on and when he gets the one that shoots he sticks with it...G David is much the same..I think each process has it's own merits, there is less work to do to a cut rifled barrel to make accurately, you can start with dead steel, machine and end up with dead steel, your bore and groove circle concentricity as well as twist uniformity are pretty much dead nuts, uniform groove depth pretty easy with good tooling. It's a skilled process which the guy making the barrel gives half a that which promotes growth and vigour, and the handlapping process seals the deal in that because it was made accurately to begin with, doesn't need as much lapping to shoot it out for ya'll before you get to fire a shot. You also have a little more versatility with material type, and playing with bore dimensions, etc..The good button barrel makers produce good stuff, and I wouldn't be against using a button barrel if I wasn't me. Hammer forge don't quite fall into the category of precision wares, but their particular application suits the process.

 

But back to the Dago's, normally I would run to the hills before considering using a barrel produced in Espana, no offense intended..But, they took their business seriously, and went to one of the best minds in the world to get their set up correct. So I give them a bit of credit. Again, would like to know how good their raw material is before making a final judgment, but all in all, by the video looked ok for production purposes. Much better than many process controls..

 

JR

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The one thing also that can throw companies like this for a loop is, custom means made as the customer wants...They may produce their production wares well, have their staff fully trained on that side, but give them a project out of the norm and they can't find their arse with both hands. So custom wise, might be a different story.

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JR,

just a little insight into spanish steel, i worked for 15 years in the aircraft components manufacturing industry and was shocked that the neither UK, Germany or Sweden could supply the correct grade of Stainless steel where the alloying percentages were consistantly within the specified limits.

Spain could!!!!!! guess where our raw materials came from.

 

Ian.

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Kal did this company exibit at the IWA?

 

I'd be all for machine lapping, if it gets complicated

hands cannot cope. We're honing and lapping hard materials

since years, machines can sense torque and pressure much quicker

and always at the same level.

One wants concistancy, only then one will actually recognise improvements

in the process.

 

I'd give one of those barrels a go, especially if they were on stock and

at a good price.

 

Anyway, good on you Kal for having the guts to try it out.

 

edi

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JR,

just a little insight into spanish steel, i worked for 15 years in the aircraft components manufacturing industry and was shocked that the neither UK, Germany or Sweden could supply the correct grade of Stainless steel where the alloying percentages were consistantly within the specified limits.

Spain could!!!!!! guess where our raw materials came from.

 

Ian.

 

 

yes Ian but that don't mean the barrels are made of anything good now does it??

 

but it all so don't mean they are not.

 

ATB

Colin :D

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Just had a look at the video, I'd heard of the place and knew Ed helped them set up, but they've outdone themselves to produce a production barrel with very good operating standards, gave me a few ideas here actually. There's a few things I don't care for in their process, straightening the barrels prior to drilling often imparts stresses in the steel unevenly, moves things around, where I'd personally probably employ an additional stress relief or cryo cycle there to calm the steel down after straightening, get to more homogenous state prior to drilling...But that's no biggie.

 

Handlapping a custom barrel is different than cnc honing, as they are only honing the finish and diameter of the bore diameter, which will finish out the tops of the lands. But clean lands will clean better, no doubt. Starting with clean bore diameter means they won't likely iron ripples into the groove surface, which is a good thing as well. Some people can't sharpen a reamer properly and get chatter marks up the bore, which ends up in the grooves in cold forming type rifling, which is why they probably went the honing direction. Takes a little longer, but that's why they have 3 hones I reckon. And it is nice to see them checking the bore diameter afterward for uniformity.

 

I don't see anything wrong with trying their barrels out, it would be interesting to know what grades of stainless and cro moly they are using. If the price was right, hell why not buy a barrel made by robots. I think the main thing is they have the principle right, because they went to someone like Ed Shilen to help them get it set up right. If he's not happy, you'd see it on his face, so yeah good on the Spaniards..Their CMM was interesting, they definitely have some good equipment..

 

Funky, I won't get in to which process makes the better barrel, because by your standards of winning comps, button rifled barrels rule the roost, hahah, and I can't say things like that...Well, maybe i can nowadays. Remember , they can produce barrels at a ratio of 10:1 over the cut rifling. People are going to buy what they can get, and if you have the ability to flood the market as such, sure.. Tony Boyer goes thru a lot of Shilens before he finds his hummer, then he stuck with it, gets a few in screws the pipes on and when he gets the one that shoots he sticks with it...G David is much the same..I think each process has it's own merits, there is less work to do to a cut rifled barrel to make accurately, you can start with dead steel, machine and end up with dead steel, your bore and groove circle concentricity as well as twist uniformity are pretty much dead nuts, uniform groove depth pretty easy with good tooling. It's a skilled process which the guy making the barrel gives half a that which promotes growth and vigour, and the handlapping process seals the deal in that because it was made accurately to begin with, doesn't need as much lapping to shoot it out for ya'll before you get to fire a shot. You also have a little more versatility with material type, and playing with bore dimensions, etc..The good button barrel makers produce good stuff, and I wouldn't be against using a button barrel if I wasn't me. Hammer forge don't quite fall into the category of precision wares, but their particular application suits the process.

 

But back to the Dago's, normally I would run to the hills before considering using a barrel produced in Espana, no offense intended..But, they took their business seriously, and went to one of the best minds in the world to get their set up correct. So I give them a bit of credit. Again, would like to know how good their raw material is before making a final judgment, but all in all, by the video looked ok for production purposes. Much better than many process controls..

 

JR

 

 

hi Jr

 

i do believe the top shots when they are sponsored by a barrel company get sent in excess of ten barrels for free, they then shoot the barrels to see which one is the most accurate,then use the rest to practice or load develop.

reason no one knows y one barrel is more accurate than the other.

 

ATB

Colin :D

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I should of said I suppose, the steel used in the barrel making is AISI-4140 and AISI-416, chromoly and stainless.

 

Now these guys know their steel and said they only use locally produced materials. Thats said I guess you will always get a duffer in any manufacturing process.

 

So lets see what they shoot like before we shoot them down in flames... :D

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James please go back and read what i posted,I never said they would be only good enough for a Howa,it was and example as they are cheap and easy to get and pretty well made,please dont try to put words into my mouth,Iam sure a remmy,CZ Sako or any other factory stick would benifit from one of these barrels.it will be interesting to see the UK prices,may post was a suggestion that may be a good idea to produce a cheap better than factory rifle

as to what I pay for a barrel lets just say its the right sort of price :P

 

Pete

 

Sorry I wasnt putting words in your mouth, it was just the way you posted. Now would a Nesika not benefit from a Bergara barrel, or say a BAT, Surgeon? Or are these actions way to good to be dressed in an M&S barrel?

 

Ive seen Archers out shoot some top grade barrels at the range... :D

 

Did JRs post not give any confidence in the barrels being produced in Spain?

 

I appreciate you get the Funky discount but what is your price you would pay for the GUCCI barrel and better still what makes a GUCCI barrel that you would buy one? Its a simple question.

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