Annealeeze Annealing Machine Group Buy

[tisme]

I've sent Jeff an E mail asking for 20+ and to see what discount he'll do as well as a few other questions. I'll get back to everyone asap.

Check to see if you names on the list in case I left it off. Cut and paste it on if I have.

GaryW
Soother223
Farmer7
Ballistol
Tisme
LRChris
Watkins666
Markyw2
Froggy
mrcetirizine
Elio
borisserge
AnthonyR
JDBenelliM1
Andybrock

Dannywayoflife

Blair

V max

Gareth

[farmer7]

Thanks for that Tisme, look forward to hearing back.

 

It's just a shame that the UK manufactured machine we were being told to look out for for the past year or two never materialised. Would be a decent order for them!

[tisme]

Thanks for that Tisme, look forward to hearing back.

 

It's just a shame that the UK manufactured machine we were being told to look out for for the past year or two never materialised. Would be a decent order for them!

That's a good point, I'd rather buy something from the UK

[andybrock]

That's a good point, I'd rather buy something from the UK

I'd also "prefer" to spend my money with a UK supplier!!!

[dannywayoflife]

As would I but we've been hearing about a British made machine for ages now and still nothing

[The Gun Pimp]

Thanks for that Tisme, look forward to hearing back.

 

It's just a shame that the UK manufactured machine we were being told to look out for for the past year or two never materialised. Would be a decent order for them!

It did materialise - but it didn't go into production (due to certification of electric items for general sale I think) Laurie Holland has one - it's the same principle as the Giraud/Annealeeze machines.

 

I've used it with Laurie and there is a pic on the Target Shooter Facebook page. It's a really nicely made and thought out bit of kit. Maybe Laurie will comment further.

[fizzbangwhallop]

It did materialise - but it didn't go into production (due to certification of electric items for general sale I think) Laurie Holland has one - it's the same principle as the Giraud/Annealeeze machines.

 

I've used it with Laurie and there is a pic on the Target Shooter Facebook page. It's a really nicely made and thought out bit of kit. Maybe Laurie will comment further.

 

Would selling it as a kit get round the certification? or buying the kit and then the motor from the supplier?

 

Fizz

[andybrock]

It did materialise - but it didn't go into production (due to certification of electric items for general sale I think) Laurie Holland has one - it's the same principle as the Giraud/Annealeeze machines.

 

I've used it with Laurie and there is a pic on the Target Shooter Facebook page. It's a really nicely made and thought out bit of kit. Maybe Laurie will comment further.

Just goes to show how ridiculous things are in this country, you can't manufacture one here for all the red tape but you can import one from another country!

[Borisserge]

It's truly a shame that no one here (UK) is willing to take the step (if they have the means). - virtually a guaranteed order for 20....

[Laurie]

The machine I have is very good indeed - which is what I'd expect knowing the inventor / maker. He's not gone into serial production with it - yet - because of the issue of CE certification of the electronic bits used in the timing / control system. This is a very expensive process - alright for a volume manufacturer making hundreds or thousands, although even there the customer ultimately pays for it, but way too expensive for someone making 20 or even a couple of hundred. The certification is to do with radio / electronic emissions ensuring that the machine doesn't interfere with TV, radio, phone transmissions etc.

 

Andy, you're totally incorrect on this one - any US built machine will have had to have undergone US certification and must also meet our EC requirements. If it doesn't bear a 'CE' approval sticker, import into the UK is illegal and it could be seized and destroyed. That applies to almost everything and anything bar food - look at a tin of Hogdon or Alliant powder for example and you'll find a CE sticker. (Some Alliant powders don't have CE approval and cannot therefore be ordered - although they have US approval, that's no good for us and ATK Alliant has decided that the European market doesn't justify the cost of going through the CE approval process.)

 

The designer's last email suggested he'd had a Eureka moment on this and there is a way round the issue, but as yet I've no idea what or how. I won't name him as there is no sense in setting hares running until things are sorted. He'll go public when he's got something to sell.

[tisme]

Just got an e mail back and he can't do any discount as he's a one man band and there's a very small mark up. I've tried to PM everyone his e mail to me but the forum somehow won't let me. If you going to buy one it might be worth E mailing me first peteATsuperbikleservices.com Or if you just want to know more and your names on the list

 

Pete

[phaedra1106uk]

Pete, is that email address correct?, should it be superbikeservices.com and not superbikleservices.com with the extra L in it?

[tisme]

Pete, is that email address correct?, should it be superbikeservices.com and not superbikleservices.com with the extra L in it?

Ops yep no L peteAT superbikeservices.com

[andybrock]

The machine I have is very good indeed - which is what I'd expect knowing the inventor / maker. He's not gone into serial production with it - yet - because of the issue of CE certification of the electronic bits used in the timing / control system. This is a very expensive process - alright for a volume manufacturer making hundreds or thousands, although even there the customer ultimately pays for it, but way too expensive for someone making 20 or even a couple of hundred. The certification is to do with radio / electronic emissions ensuring that the machine doesn't interfere with TV, radio, phone transmissions etc.

 

Andy, you're totally incorrect on this one - any US built machine will have had to have undergone US certification and must also meet our EC requirements. If it doesn't bear a 'CE' approval sticker, import into the UK is illegal and it could be seized and destroyed. That applies to almost everything and anything bar food - look at a tin of Hogdon or Alliant powder for example and you'll find a CE sticker. (Some Alliant powders don't have CE approval and cannot therefore be ordered - although they have US approval, that's no good for us and ATK Alliant has decided that the European market doesn't justify the cost of going through the CE approval process.)

 

The designer's last email suggested he'd had a Eureka moment on this and there is a way round the issue, but as yet I've no idea what or how. I won't name him as there is no sense in setting hares running until things are sorted. He'll go public when he's got something to sell.

OK, I take your point Laurie.

[farmer7]

Could all the certification not be got round by making it battery operated? Perhaps one of the big square lantern batteries. They're only £3-£4 even if you replaced it every couple of hundred cases it would be no big deal. Its only got to rotate a wheel.

 

Saying all that I know little about electronics but it sounds good in my mind and you wouldn't need a socket nearby! Just have to be vigilant that you didn't allow the battery to discharge too much and overcook your cases if the wheel slowed down!

[Laurie]

It's not the power supply itself - the machine comes with both an off the shelf mini-transformer as used in scores or hundreds of small modern electrical appliances, computers and associated kit and which is itself CE'd being a mainstream product. It also has an 8-battery pack for non-mains use. It's the electrical kit that the power feeds into that are in effect 'new build' and therefore need to be proven to be emission free. This applies to any electrically powed gizzmos you can think of before they can be sold. If you look, you'll find CE stickers all over the place on your household and garden appliances.

[Foxshooter]

Very interested here, probably with the 6BR kit as well.

 

Wonder if it will do .300Winmag as std or if I'd have to buy the large calibre conversion kit for those?

 

Mark

 

I guess being in Florida there's plenty of opportunity for a holiday purchase and suitcase transport home :-)

[mole-e30]

Laurie

 

My dad has a lot of experience with CE and the machinery directive, under which this would fall.

 

I will get in touch when I am back in a couple of days.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[Shuggy]

The machine I have is very good indeed - which is what I'd expect knowing the inventor / maker. He's not gone into serial production with it - yet - because of the issue of CE certification of the electronic bits used in the timing / control system. This is a very expensive process - alright for a volume manufacturer making hundreds or thousands, although even there the customer ultimately pays for it, but way too expensive for someone making 20 or even a couple of hundred. The certification is to do with radio / electronic emissions ensuring that the machine doesn't interfere with TV, radio, phone transmissions etc.

 

Andy, you're totally incorrect on this one - any US built machine will have had to have undergone US certification and must also meet our EC requirements. If it doesn't bear a 'CE' approval sticker, import into the UK is illegal and it could be seized and destroyed. That applies to almost everything and anything bar food - look at a tin of Hogdon or Alliant powder for example and you'll find a CE sticker. (Some Alliant powders don't have CE approval and cannot therefore be ordered - although they have US approval, that's no good for us and ATK Alliant has decided that the European market doesn't justify the cost of going through the CE approval process.)

 

The designer's last email suggested he'd had a Eureka moment on this and there is a way round the issue, but as yet I've no idea what or how. I won't name him as there is no sense in setting hares running until things are sorted. He'll go public when he's got something to sell.

Laurie, I believe that's a bit of a myth that you are repeating there. The CE marking is nothing more than a public declaration by a manufacturer that a product 'placed on the market' in the European Economic Area complies with all the applicable European regulations. If something is purchased outside the EAA but is not sold inside, then those regulations do not apply - since it is not being 'placed on the market'. The powders have to have the CE marking because they are being sold in the UK.

[Laurie]

Yes, but the British made machine is made in the UK and would be sold in the UK, so has to comply with all 'local' regulations and certification.

 

The point about foreign non-EC made machinery is an interesting one. If you make 20 (or 200 or 2,000) machines and make an online sale to a UK resident to be distributed amongst him/her and other UK residents, what's the difference between that and offering it for sale in the UK or other EC country? The goods are for sale on a website that is accessed by people around the world and are therefore offered for sale to people in any of 50 or 500 countries as soon as you're willing to accept an order and ship stuff to them.

 

I'm not really interested though in what people can or can't buy abroad and import personally except to bemoan the increasing restrictiveness of ITAR affecting US exports and also to worry about stories where HMRC is allegedly delaying customs clearance of goods while they initiate checks on people receiving things like imported dies and other handloading or shooting gear. The question raised in this thread was why can't we have a UK made annealer? I can only accept the would-be manufacturer's advice that he has to go through an onerous and expensive technical compliance process because the device uses some relatively simple electronic timing and control equipment, too onerous and expensive to make small scale manufacture here in this country viable unless he can find some control system that is already in use for other purposes and previously certified or is of such a nature that it doesn't need certification in the first place

 

I'll not even quibble about the need for these checks being old enough to remember the days when the old small screen black & white TV picture became a mess of white lines and the sound was drowned out by a horrendous buzz because a neighbour had switched a vacuum cleaner or similar appliance on. Somehow though, yet again a necessary and desirable rule has become time-consuming, onerous, expensive and can only be implemented by hiring a 'certified professional'. Still, in a world where you can no longer change a 13A 3-pin plug yourself, and it's likely only a matter of time before a certificate will be required to change a light bulb (sorry two certificates, one for the electrical bit, one for the stepladder) ..............

[Shuggy]

'Placed on the market' has a tight legal definition, but in simple terms stuff sold overseas does not count, even if it's available online.

 

Agreed about the increasingly ridiculous strict interpretation of ITAR. The US State Department has effectively killed a vibrant US export market, but the US domestic market is so big that no-one seems to care very much.

 

The EU gets a lot of stick in many quarters from the Daily Mail etc. for 'bent bannanas' and 'elf n safety stories, but most of them are nonsense. All of us have benefited enourmously from the improvements in safety and quality of consumer products since the '70s due to the improvements in standards.

[gbal]

Laurie and Shuggy,an interesting discussion.There are still a few areas where it's less red tape-and some sort of sanity prevails....let's consider the light bulb conundrum.....

 

How many psychiatrists,psychologists and social workers does it take to change a light bulb?

 

Just one,but these days the light bulb must want to change.

:-)

 

g

[AnthonyR]

I have just bought one straight from his website, so I am out of any group buy thing.

The payment system didn't include any extra for UK postage so guess I have to sort that bit later

[Guest Stacka]

Every time I look at the title for this thread I have to double take and make sure it doesn't say something else

[gunnery]

after following this thread and reading all the comments about wanting to buy British made I have decided to have a go and make one myself for my own use I have already spent £80 on 2 x Motors 2 x controllers toggle switch 2 x motor spindle adaptors and plus bits screws etc and only half way there so I can see where they get there price tag £300 to £500 depending on build.