Level 2 Qualification

[Guest wireviz]

Removed

[deer stalker]

[ian yes i do know the answers to the questions and i am questioning keith's first posts i am also bewildered to linda's post about level 2 and how much she was helped were she deviates to a stalk that has no relevance what so ever credit me with some intelligence !!!. So let me put you in the picture i have had lev to for 8 years over the last 6 or so years i have written up 10 portfolios and i am at the minute doing number 11. All 10 have went through with out any major problems and hopefully it will continue. I was asked by a internal verifier to become a AW but for him to sponsor me for free!! he wanted me to go to his place a few times a year and take clients out i was also to take a few foreign clients out for Roedeer on my own ground now that's the type of chaps were dealing with at the top end of stalking money grabbing deciduous trees. I wish you well with your lev 2 but i am sure by now you will know all the answers to the Question bank and will over the next hundred year you will still be asking questions. If there was nothing positive in my post that is because you did not read it properly.What i am trying to say is the use of a AW for all your stalks is a option but certainly not the only one and in MOST cases the most expencive.Now if we were talking about learning how to stalk and learning how to get on a beast how to graloch etc etc then this thread i think would be more relevant

 

KEITH all the positive reply on your behalf are all well and good mate but you should know if you a a AW that to witness a stalk is all that is required you are not to help in any way .That part should have been done by the the client.

 

This thread was not about Keith its about your options in doing the Lev 2 DMQ and also the pitfalls.

 

Mat i Ask your self and others how much it has cost you to complete the LEV 2 STALKING CERTIFICATE.

 

i WILL START IT COST ME A NICE BOTTLE OF MALT OF WHICH WE OPENED AND SHARED

 

 

Hi Wireviz,

 

Im pleased to see the personal attacks have stopped, long may it continue.

 

I have been an AW for 9 years, My assessor put me though level 2 and in return I became an AW. No money changed hands, there was no payment of any kind. At present im writing up portfolio 27, 26 of which I have done the field asessments on all 3 stalks. Green Bear is the exeption as he came to me his portfolio was rejected, we spent half a day in my lounge going though what needed to be put right, then Green Bear had to do 2 extra stalks and cull a beast on each outing ( this was done all in a weekend, 2 outings at a cost of £60 each, put the portfolio right, do the questioning, write up the cull reports, provide the land and the deer, all at a cost of £120 to a complete stranger at the time ) I personaly think that is good value.

 

Perhaps im one of the lucky ones in the deer world, my assessor is a straight and honest gentleman

[Tikka 260]

I wonder if the content of this post is part of the reason why many experienced and willing people who could assist newcomers and those attempting to increase and improve their skills just hang back and will not get involved in the AW 'thing' ?

 

Its about the same as offering yourself up as a target!

 

ATB

 

T260

[Wsm]

We`ve watched this thread from the start and its about time we spelt a few things out once and for all

 

Differing opinions are welcomed but to attack others and anyone that happens to support them without knowing the facts isn`t something that we`re willing to put up with any more.Please think how your post comes across before publishing

By all means disagree and put up valid points but unfortunately there seems to be a few on here that treat everything with suspician and post accordingly.If you can`t manage to get your points across politely and have to drop to the level of some of the condescending and patronising posts we`ve seen above please refrain from posting

 

 

Deer Stalker opened this thread with his opinion about the AW scheme and its advantages.The matter of whether it was self promotion is something for Gary and myself to decide and deal with where we think necessary.I have never had any dealings with DS but £60 for a stalk is the going rate so it looks like a bargain to me if the AW is thrown in as well.It seems that he has some happy customers willing to speak out which is good to hear and will be encouraged on this site just as we would allow the negative press

 

Please remember that others have a right to their opinion without being subjected to any sort of abuse in any shape or form

 

Thanks

[Guest wireviz]

Removed

[eldon]

So wireviz,

Where can I achieve my DSC 2 for a bottle of malt? and how big a bottle?

 

I'm with Tikka on this why are members jumping on other posters. Whether this is implied or actual is irrelevant or is this in my head also?

Thank you Keith for providing us with an interesting topic.

[v-max]

When i did my level2 i had more knowledge & experiance than my AW & he admited it & said i should go to become an AW as i was good at it. I have done 2 level2's for people as a witness but found the sponsser side by an AA to be the usal toffee nose crap as im not in the loop. To be honest i was told to go for it by one the assesors that phoned & spoke to my but the paper work/portfollio puts me off but might try again no sure.

[Guest wireviz]

Removed

[nuttyspaniel]

Very interesting indeed once we get through others putting each other down! Now Im thinking about doing my level 2, so let me ask this!

The critera for the level 2 is to stalk a beast, shoot the beast, gralloch and inspect, then take it to the larder and finnish the prep prior to it going into the food chain. Whislt this is being done and witnessed by who ever there are a series of questions to be aksed and answered, A portfolio on the stalks to be written and completed, this is then submitted to another party who goes over it then if Im correct will call the stalker and ask questions, it is then passed or failed!!

 

Now what happens if the staker has no larder? I ask as I dont have a larder as my deer are for my personal consumption!

 

Do the bank of 300 questions get sent with the portfolio and paper work? The reason for this is Ive seen some questions asked in a porfolio and even though Ive done level 1 I couldnt remember these being covered as indepth as in the porfolio I saw! Ive also heard of an assesor asking questions on Anthrax in deer!! And Ive also heard of different approaches by assesors e.g. if its not answered as how its written then its a fail!

 

I plan on getting 2 stalks witnessed by friends before stumping up my dosh to get 1 accredited. Now the next sentence or 2 does not relate to any person at all but aimed at the coverning bodies which cover our sport.

 

I was basicly forced to do my level 1 to gain stalking, its getting that we will need level 2 shortly to keep our stalking, I ve heard of other forestry companies already asking for level 2 not just the F/C! Now I feel this is a money getting scheme for "bodies" like BASC, and the BDS to mention 2! Its getting that some police forces are jumping onto the band wagon as well when they shouldnt, now people arent challenging this as they are scared they wont get their ticket. I dont hear Basc etc jumping up and down and trying to stop this! What we see is people backing the DMQ for stalking, Ive even just read in the Sporting Rifle that we shouldnt challenge the police but run with our tails between our legs and do it!!!!!! What chance do we have we a nation mag is printing that and there are people out there saying we should do it! Who is fleecing who here? My sport is expensive enough and I hope I speak for others like me out there. Not everybody has bottomless wallets!! I really think there should be a reality check regard the DMQ for stalking and get a grip of reality.

 

Rant Over!!

[tikka3006]

Wireviz

If what I said was a personal attack then I apologise, but I do feel that your comments about Keith are a little harsh. To my knowledge the man has never had a bad review and everyone who has stalked with him has nothing but respect for him.

As you say the truth should be told and I've often been entertained by funky and your pull no punches way of putting it.

 

you offer some excellent information and advice on stalking and shooting but sometimes I feel youi do go off track a little, this thread was supposed to be about dsc 2 and AW's not how keith runs his business.

so lets keep the thread on track so everyone can benifit from the advice of the more experienced shooters and stalkers among us

 

Ian

[col48]

Hi Wireviz,

 

Im pleased to see the personal attacks have stopped, long may it continue.

 

i keep reading this and yet i am unable to find any personal attacks anywhere in this thread.

 

so let me please ask you a question if this is aloud, and I'm not picking on you for the record.

 

when you first posted this

I have been reading with interest some of your comments about Deer Stalking Qualifications. I am an Accredited Witness for the DSC Level2 Qualification. Once you have completed DSC Level1 you are able to then register for DSC Level2, you have 3 years from the date of registration to complete the portfolio.

 

I would recomend that you use an Accredited Witness as we are briefed and trained in gathering and recording the information that the assesser and internal verifier needs to be able to award the qualification.

 

Cheers.............

 

Keith..............

 

what was this put up for??? was it an advert? you have all ready said it is not. so was it put up to stimulate a conversation about the topic??? or was it just a statement??

 

as I'm getting very confused to y you put up the post and then when some people question a few things you say you are getting personally attacked.

 

please can you enlighten me as last time i looked this was a forum where we discuss the good and the bad and then form an opinion.

all so please show me where you have been attacked,(that goes for everyone that has put this up on this topic because i can not find it.

 

ATB

Colin

[col48]

Wireviz

If what I said was a personal attack then I apologise, but I do feel that your comments about Keith are a little harsh. To my knowledge the man has never had a bad review and everyone who has stalked with him has nothing but respect for him.

As you say the truth should be told and I've often been entertained by funky and your pull no punches way of putting it.

 

you offer some excellent information and advice on stalking and shooting but sometimes I feel youi do go off track a little, this thread was supposed to be about dsc 2 and AW's not how keith runs his business.

so lets keep the thread on track so everyone can benifit from the advice of the more experienced shooters and stalkers among us

 

Ian

 

Ian

Keith's business is DSC 2 and he is an AW so having a conversation about this subject would be hard with out mentioning what he does. it would be pointless, and the price they charge is a part of it as well.

ATB

Colin

[Guest wireviz]

Removed

[Guest rogern]

Jesus, I'm glad I did my level 2 in 2000, otherwise this would have scared the crap out of me.

 

I've just gone through my portfolio to try and get an idea of what I did to get Level 2, the most important thing to understand is that the Level 2 Booklet is titled "Record of Experience" and thats just what it is, you/we can spout all day long about how good we are and how many deer we have grassed, but if it aint in writing you cant prove it, and thats all DMQ want, proof.

 

My portfolio consists of 3 statements from 3 'other stalkers' not even Level 2 holders, statements from 2 game dealers about the quality of the carcasses delivered, and my Accredited Witness stalk done with Peter Watson (DCS) in a deer park.

 

I was fortunate in the fact that at that time I was culling deer in a park (recreational) and I kept detailed records of the deer I culled on a simple spreadsheet, I also had some stalking near Dumfries which I also kept records of, the info was only the usual stuff, sex, weight, condition etc, with an end of year calculation of the number of bucks/does and the average weight. What am I banging on about? well my assessor told me that the more RELEVANT evidence I could supply the better for my portfolio, the important word is relevant not loads of junk ect.

 

I think what Wireviz is saying is that you do not need 3 stalks all witnessed by AW's, it could get very expensive especially if you dont have access to a 'Keith' and you must agree that there are a lot of arseholes who have jumped on the gravy train at the expense of guys trying to gain a 'qualification' I know of certain individuals that have AW status because they knew people in the 'know' which make a broccoli of the whole thing.

 

Remember, 3 witnessed stalks are the minimum not the set criteria, it is evidence & proof they are after so your portfolio should/could contain plenty of other relevany info.

 

I do understand that nowadays you need two stalks witnessed by a 'Credible Witness' ie a level 2 holder, and one witnessed by an Accredited Witness, that is the minimum though, you should be recording evidence of every accompanied stalk you do, dont just work on the minimum otherwise you have no margin of error.

[Guest wireviz]

Removed

[Wsm]

Dave

 

I passed my level 2 in 2005 and do have some experience of the AW scheme.Fortunately my witness is one of the good guys and it didn`t cost me anything like the figures being mentioned.

 

Believe it or not I agree with most of what you`ve said but not the manner in which it comes across in some of your posts

 

Rogern summed up your whole arguement in his last few paragraphs

[deer stalker]

Very interesting indeed once we get through others putting each other down! Now Im thinking about doing my level 2, so let me ask this!

The critera for the level 2 is to stalk a beast, shoot the beast, gralloch and inspect, then take it to the larder and finnish the prep prior to it going into the food chain. Whislt this is being done and witnessed by who ever there are a series of questions to be aksed and answered, A portfolio on the stalks to be written and completed, this is then submitted to another party who goes over it then if Im correct will call the stalker and ask questions, it is then passed or failed!!

 

Now what happens if the staker has no larder? I ask as I dont have a larder as my deer are for my personal consumption!

 

Do the bank of 300 questions get sent with the portfolio and paper work? The reason for this is Ive seen some questions asked in a porfolio and even though Ive done level 1 I couldnt remember these being covered as indepth as in the porfolio I saw! Ive also heard of an assesor asking questions on Anthrax in deer!! And Ive also heard of different approaches by assesors e.g. if its not answered as how its written then its a fail!

 

I plan on getting 2 stalks witnessed by friends before stumping up my dosh to get 1 accredited. Now the next sentence or 2 does not relate to any person at all but aimed at the coverning bodies which cover our sport.

 

I was basicly forced to do my level 1 to gain stalking, its getting that we will need level 2 shortly to keep our stalking, I ve heard of other forestry companies already asking for level 2 not just the F/C! Now I feel this is a money getting scheme for "bodies" like BASC, and the BDS to mention 2! Its getting that some police forces are jumping onto the band wagon as well when they shouldnt, now people arent challenging this as they are scared they wont get their ticket. I dont hear Basc etc jumping up and down and trying to stop this! What we see is people backing the DMQ for stalking, Ive even just read in the Sporting Rifle that we shouldnt challenge the police but run with our tails between our legs and do it!!!!!! What chance do we have we a nation mag is printing that and there are people out there saying we should do it! Who is fleecing who here? My sport is expensive enough and I hope I speak for others like me out there. Not everybody has bottomless wallets!! I really think there should be a reality check regard the DMQ for stalking and get a grip of reality.

 

Rant Over!!

 

Hi Nuttyspaniel,

 

As you dont have a larder would it be practical to use a fellow stalkers larder or make an arrangement with your local game dealer to take the carcase directly to them. If you mainly stalk the smaller spieces of deer you could always buy one of these drinks chillers, like the ones you see at petrol stations, they are often on ebay. they do make good chillers for small deer and game.

 

The 300 Questions. You are getting confused with level 1, If you look in the back of your level 1 training manual that is where the 300 questions are.

 

Failing Level 2, the level 2 qualification can not be failed. If when your portfolio is sent for assessment, parts of it do not meet the performance criteria the assessor will return your portfolio to you with a letter outlining why it has been returned to you, It may need more supporting evidence and even additional stalks, when this has been completed return the portfolio to the assessor.

 

Anthrax, there are 6 notifiable diseases in deer, you should and will be expected to know them.

 

Cheers.............

 

Keith..................

[nuttyspaniel]

As you dont have a larder would it be practical to use a fellow stalkers larder or make an arrangement with your local game dealer to take the carcase directly to them. If you mainly stalk the smaller spieces of deer you could always buy one of these drinks chillers, like the ones you see at petrol stations, they are often on ebay. they do make good chillers for small deer and game.

 

Ive no intention of getting a larder short term as Ive a bigger plan to execute long term. Again as I out lined in my last paragraph this is somthing else being forced on us. OK you state I could arrange with my local game dealer perhaps as a suggestion. This could be a practical solution but alas I stay 45 miles from the nearest dealer, and he may not be too chuffed me trundling up to do an assesment only to throw the beast back into the jeep to bring it home. I understand why we need to be able to check for disease etc but we dont need a larder for that especially if the deer are for personal consumption. So how do I get round this.

[varminter]

Hi guys an girls ,

I have been reading this thread with great interest but also concern!!!!

The great interest is about the experience of the guys that stalk on here and the training they have had!!!!

Also good to hear how they will take others under their wing ( whether paid or not ) and teach them what they know!!!!

 

Now as a novice when it comes to stalking i look to others with experience for guidance and advice!!!

I understand that " yes " that there are bad eggs who prey on others and rip them off - but hopefully with some help ( like asking on uk varminting ) we can be guided in the right direction whether " WE " decide to pay for it or not!!!

 

Now i am very concerned at how some people answer questions as it can be seen as downright rude!!!!!!

Sorry to have to say that but thats how it looks!!!!

As a novice i look to all of " you " guys for guidance and respect for each other - after all we all have one thing in common and that we enjoy our hunting!!!!!

So from now on all i ask politely is to think about how " you " would like to be approached and think how " you " would feel if you was answered in such a way!!!!

 

On a personal note , i have been very lucky that someone has taken me under their wing and is teaching me ( whether it sticks in my thick head is another thing :lol: ) i have had some lovely experiences that i shall never forget and have met others who stalk too who have invited me to stay and stalk with them , and to those i cant thank them enough!! ;)

 

 

Hope i have not caused any offense in so writing this ,

I think that we shooters in this day and age need to stick together!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All the best.........................

RAY.....................................

[nuttyspaniel]

The 300 Questions. You are getting confused with level 1, If you look in the back of your level 1 training manual that is where the 300 questions are.

 

So the questions for level 2 are the same as level 1 if Im picking you up correctly? If not where can we access the questions about?

[deer stalker]

When I put this thread up it was intended as a way for stalkers to get questions answered and to give free guidance for stalkers wishing to do level 2.

you can get information on both the BASC and BDS websites, I have offered another option to stalkers now though this site or private mail.

 

One final point I would like to make is this is not an add for me as im very busy stalking anyway and as some have suggested its not about money, if it was money driven I would be taking out foreign clients, charging alot more money and no paper work at the end of each stalk.

 

Cheers........

 

Keith...............

[deer stalker]

So the questions for level 2 are the same as level 1 if Im picking you up correctly? If not where can we access the questions about?

 

Hi Nuttyspaniel,

 

Spot on mate, read and read that manual, its all in there.

 

The level 2 qualification is putting all that you have learn't on your level 1 into practice. And all those questions that Wireviz wants to see.

 

Cheers..............

 

Keith..................

[Guest rogern]

So the questions for level 2 are the same as level 1 if Im picking you up correctly? If not where can we access the questions about?

 

 

Hi Nutty.

 

The 'questions' in my Portfolio are titled "Demonstration of Knowledge" they are:

 

(1) Give the three main requirements imposed on the hunter by the Wild Game Meat (Hygiene and Inspection) Regulations 1995 with regard to the handling of venison for sale. (superceeded 2005 by Large Game Meat Hygiene)

 

(2) List 3 notifiable Diseases

 

(3) Name 3 common sites/organs in which bovine tuberculosis appears in deer

 

(4) List the authorities/individuals who must be informed in the event of a suspected case of bovine tuberculosis

Obviously the questions will have been updated since I did mine but this gives you a flavour.

 

Remember, 'they' know that you have passed your level 1 otherwise you would not be applying for level 2, so level 2 is not a test with 300 questions, it is a demonstration and written record that you know/knew what you are doing in the field.

 

There aint 300 questions mate, one candidate recently was asked by the Assessor, after he had submitted his level 2 portfolio, a question about recognising Anthrax, he couldnt answer it immediatley so was given a call back the next day, he correctly answered the question and was granted his level 2.

 

After gaining your level 1 you/we all know how to safely stalk, shoot, approach, gralloch, inspect, assess & larder a beast, level 2 is just recorded evidence of those acts.

[nell]

Regarding cost of AW, i paid £50 per stalk, as i used my own permision i was able to cash in the venison so the cost was not to bad, i knew roughly where the deer would be so only needed the minimum amount of stalks,perhaps this is another way to look at the cost.

I see the anthrax question mentioned above, i cant rem the options in lev one as it was a long time ago ,but i do rem my shock at being told i was wrong for treating every animal with suspition when yhe correct answer was its never been found in deer in the uk does that mean they never will?????

[Tikka 260]

Allright, allright..... Now here is an offer, I have Level 2 DSC, and have just taken the BDS Deer Management Course, and would therefore be acceptable as a "Credible Witness" NOT "Accredited". IF anyone local to me in West Sussex / Surrey/Hampshire would like to invite me to witness a stalk for them, I shall be glad to do so. I do not want a fee, just make a contribution to the fuel expenses, and thats it!

 

I only have 15 years deer stalking experience so, I am something of a newcomer compared to some, but if it helps.... then let me know, and we can arrange a time that suits.

 

BTW, I have no desire to steal business from those that may do this for a living, and if it is perceived to be that way, then I shall back off and leave you to it.

 

ATB

 

T260