Level 2 Qualification

[deer stalker]

I have been reading with interest some of your comments about Deer Stalking Qualifications. I am an Accredited Witness for the DSC Level2 Qualification. Once you have completed DSC Level1 you are able to then register for DSC Level2, you have 3 years from the date of registration to complete the portfolio.

 

I would recomend that you use an Accredited Witness as we are briefed and trained in gathering and recording the information that the assesser and internal verifier needs to be able to award the qualification.

 

Cheers.............

 

Keith..............

[Guest wireviz]

[Deer stalker how much do you charge and what is your success rate per stalk.

[deer stalker]

Iam sure you do and Iam also sure you charge for the privilage just for the record who trianed you and what offical exam and test did you have to be a qualified witness ?????

 

Firstly let me make it quite clear that I am not touting for business as im very busy anyway, When you register for level 2 you will get a list of all the accredited witnesses in the country.

 

To become an Accredited Witness first of all you have to hold DSC 1 & 2, Then you need to get an assessor to sponsor and train you to the standard reqiured in collecting the evidence and completing field assessments and to question the candidate and record all the evidence into there portfolio. It sounds all very easy, but its not and there are systems in place to ensure that the qualification is only awarded when all the Performance Criteria are met on all 3 individual cull records. Also both the candidate and the accredited witness are questioned by the assessor.

 

I hope this has gone some way towards answering you questions.

 

Cheers...............

 

Keith....................

[deer stalker]

[Deer stalker how much do you charge and what is your success rate per stalk.

 

Hi Wirevis,

 

I charge £60 per outing, as for my success rate, Its not my success rate as the candidate is doing the stalking, Im there to observe, question and record evidence and to give guidance on how to put you portfolio together.

 

You can not fail Level 2, as long as each performance criteria on all 3 individual cull records are met to the standard required by DMQ ( Deer Management Qualifications ) then you will be awarded the qualification. If you evidence is not to the standard you will be asked to provide more evidence, It is usally at this point candidates contact an AW ( accredited Witness ) if they have not used one. It is alot easier for the candidate the AW and the assessor if it is done right the first time.

 

Cheers................

 

Keith..................

[Guest wireviz]

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[deer stalker]

Ahh so there isnt an acual exam or test thanks for clearing this up. I am corect in saying that anyone who holds level 2 can also witness a level 2 candidate ?? i presume this this wont hold as much water as an offical witness but still it can be done and which may save people some fees

Do you charge for your service and what does this cost.Am I correct in thinking fees vary depending on the individual witness

 

Hi Funky Bunch,

 

It is a bit like taking a driving test, the level 1 is the tests or exams, the level 2 is the practical.

 

The cull records are divided into 4 elements, the first 2 cover stalking and culling deer:

 

Element 1 Stalk Deer

 

Element 2 Cull Deer

 

The remaining 2 elements cover the extraction and preparation of deer for human consumtion:

 

Element 3 Prepare and inspect dead deer

 

Element 4 Transport and store dead deer.

 

Within each element is the performance criteria that has to be met.

 

All of this has to be witnessed and recorded.

 

So do you mind me asking what qualifications you have.

 

Cheers..........

 

Keith.............

[Wsm]

Keith

 

Welcome to the site first of all

 

The £60 seems to be the going rate for the Accredited Witness

[Guest wireviz]

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[Wsm]

I dont mind you asking at all I hold level 1 and 2 and to quote my assessors hand written additional notes

"well presented portfolio,enjoyable to assess,Compliments on your work"

 

What Funky forgot to add was also the following line "He also supplied me with an X reg sierra at the right price"

 

Like it or not Dave some folks choose to go down the AW route simply because they aren`t fortunate to know guys as generous as yourself who witness for free.As I`ve said if people go into it with their heads up and are happy with the arrangement the fee isn`t extortionate

[Greenbear]

Hi Guys,

 

I really don't see the reason why you are giving Keith a hard time, I had my portfolio witnessed by a so called Level 2 professional deer stalker who; when was question by the assessor couldnt answer the questions and they threw my portfolio out!!!

 

I can go stalking with keith and pay £60 an outing, Joe Bloggs can go stalking with Keith and pay £60 an outing and have his outing assessed and his portfolio written up - In my mind thats having done for free!!!!!

 

Keith gives you all the knowledge and advice to prepare a professional looking portfolio to present to you assessor as I mentioned earlier for free at no extra charge on top of his outing fee.

 

I am personally aware of the driftwood thats out there and I can personally assure you that Keith is a good guy (thats my personal opinion) he is head and shoulders better than any other stalker I have been involved with.

 

I have been stalking with Keith and not seen a deer, then again the last time we were out we stopped counting at approx 50 reds.

 

If you think as an acreddited witness he can magically show you deer every outing then you have not done enough stalking. Keith will endeavour to put you (legally) on land in a position in which the deer have been moving, whether the deer show or not is not up to Keith (sadly)

 

As for the system being full of cons and cons - again Keith did not write the form book for the DSC he gives the stalker a FREE opportunity to progress with the qulaification.

 

So to avoid doubt

 

Keith will use his land

Keith will allow you to stalk and shoot his deer

Keith will charge no more than his normal outing fee for a professionally prepared portfolio

 

Is it accredited witnesses you want to have a go at or a personal attack on Keith? or have we a misguided attack on the DSC setup manifsting itself as a personal attack on Keiths integrity.

 

Also to clear another point up a level 2 witness is allowed to witness 1 or 2 of your three stalks, the third stalk must be witnessed by an acreddited witness, yes an AW does hold more sway than a normal level 2 witness purely because if you use a good one they are extremely knowledgeble and know how the system works.

 

I am 100% with you on the way the system is setup, it does offer the devious amongst us the opportunity to rip people off (I have personally been caught big style) but lets not attack the good ones.

[kip270]

Welcome to the site Keith.

 

When i passed my Level 1 i also signed up to complete my Level 2, my Level 1 was done with Ronnie Rose, and i was living in Scotland at the time, but circumstances changed and i did not have the funds to go out and complete my Level 2. Then i had a bit of luck by helping out with the FC in Peebles and helping the Rangers with various work, they were willing to help me with my Level 2, but then they changed the Ranger helper scheme, and time lapsed and i never completed my level 2.

 

What are the benefits of completing the Level 2??? It certainly will not make you a better shot as only time behind the rifle and range work can do that. I know that as of next year the FC will only lease to Level 1 & 2 holders, and how long before others follow suit.

 

So what are the incentives of completing the Level 2???????

[Wsm]

An excellent post Greenbear

 

I would hope that the frustration shown here wasn`t directed at deer stalker but rather the way the system is open for the unscrupulous to manipulate it to their own ends

[Guest wireviz]

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[deer stalker]

You put a good point there Funky because most people think they are going out with a superior person who can get them the three deer with no problems at all. This is not so normally and one would need to go to a place like David Strettons were you can shoot al three in one day and you will be taught in a the way of the special hoist work not stalking i might add but the DSC Board love it.

So it can cost as much as the accredited witness wants its a money train mate and for me a test that is full of cons and cons. Something should have been done years ago with the DSC board making a charge uniform over the full country so people could work out if they could afford it.

 

So you are £60 pounds to go on some one else's ground ( if they have any ) to follow them and witness the stalks so if we are correct in thinking that a novice will be 5 outing to have one successful stalk we are now talking 15 stalks (and i know loads that would take a lot more than that ) That's 900 pounds it has cost them plus the 100 = to put your portfolio in no wounder the system is full of crap. 1000 pounds to get told by a chap who was lucky enough to get sponsored ( might be a mere novice hm self ) That this is how to put your stalks into the pages. Deer staker the lev two is easy and i have witnessed many a stalk (all for free and supplied the deer for many because i don't want my friends and colleges ripped off by AW,S With some massive ego to fill.

 

Most stalkers I take out to witness there level2 know there ground and deer movements very well, stalkers ring and say i have been watching a buck or bucks for a few evenings and would like to get out to stalk into the buck for level2, I have had lads complete level2 in 3 outings on more than one occasion.

 

I do not rip people off and I do not have a massive ego to fill, stalkers come to me from all over the country, all by word of mouth, I do not or never have advertised as I have no need to, im just as happy culling my own deer as I am taking clients out, some of which use this site.

[deer stalker]

I dont mind you asking at all I hold level 1 and 2 and to quote my assessors hand written additional notes

"well presented portfolio,enjoyable to assess,Compliments on your work"

 

Hi Funky Bunch,

 

So how many Level2 Portfolio's have you witnessed and written up, are you an AW or a credible witness.

 

Cheers............

 

Keith.............

[rays little sniper]

Hi Keith

Its Linda, you know that woman you put through her level 2 and are assisting in the AW qualification!!!!

 

Well the word "FRUSTRATED" springs to mind boys!

 

I have been fortunate enough to do well in this sport and have met an awful lot of people who have been doing this a long time and I am concerned that they are allowed to carry on with this sport. Just because someone has done the sport for years does not automatically give them the ability to assess and ensure the candidate carries out the requirements to the standards expected.

 

An accredited witness is there to ensure the standards of the qualification are met and if they are giving up their time to assist you, why should they not charge! I am sure all you trades people (or are you all professionals) charge for the services you offer?

 

I was fortunate enough recently to stalk with Keith and another guy. Keith was lucky enough to shoot in the morning, I saw nothing, so we decided to have an evening stalk. IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR KEITH I WOULD NEVER HAVE GOT A CHANCE AT SHOOTING A DEER, the guy that took us just bumped his deer and hoped a shot presented.

 

I met Keith 3 Years ago and I have to say he is one of the most genuine people I have met, his passion and enthusiam for the sport is incredible. It is difficult enough for us girlies to get on in this sport but its people like Keith that make it possible. He puts a lot of time and effort into the level 2 qualifications he does, so much so that he has already put through two guys local to me and is doing the level 2 for three others in Sussex.

 

There are people out there who charge a fortune for very little, with Keith you will get results and you will be a better stalker, even if you know it all, you will learn from him.

 

Keep up the good work Keith, see you in a couple of weeks!

Linda x

[Guest wireviz]

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[deer stalker]

Hi

Iam not an AW or an assessor,I have however carried out 1 wright up for a portfolio,being level 2 status this is accepted, hence my question what qualifaction or exams does a person have to do to become an offical AW

 

Hi Funky Bunch,

 

To get sponsored as an AW you need to find an assessor who is willing to sponsor you, then you have to go though a lot of briefings and training.

 

The next step is to prove to your assessor that you have the knowledge needed, as you are expected to know alot about all aspects of stalking, I am by no means an expert and would not ever want to be called one, as in the stalking world there is no right or wrong way to do things, its a matter of being confident and competent in what you are doing. when out stalking if you decide to squeeze the trigger you and you alone have to live with the consiqences, was it a safe shot? was the shot within your capability?etc...etc...etc...etc

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[Greenbear]

Hi Funky & Wireviz

 

I must admit you are both spot on with your comments, people like yourselves are very short on the ground and are sadly in the minority. People with a genuine passion for stalking and the ability to pass their experience and expertise on should be acknowledged and supported, my response was not intended as criticism and hope it wasnt taken as such.

 

As for level 2, if you have a person such as wireviz/funky who are willing and able to help you out then its purely a matter of cash. I was not lucky enough to have such good friends available and would have certainly used them if they were available, however I have no stalking ground of my own and have to pay for every outing, I was lucky to find someone who was reasonable and able to do my level 2 as an add on. Since meeting Deer Stalker I have stalked with him many times and now class him as a friend.

 

 

Wireviz I find £60 an outing acceptable to myself (no trophy fees on top) with the beast extra if you want it, again its a matter of cash, at the moment I am flat on my arse broke and can't do any stalking so £60 at present is out of the question. BUt I can confirm he only charges £60 per outing with a level 2 write up at the end. The bit I also like is no trophy fees so you not looking at your wallet every time you pull the trigger.

 

I firmly believe a full and structured training system should be introduced, however with the two biggest organisations pulling the strings they will always be money makers for them. In all the entire DSC system is a rip off and has allowed rip off merchants to arise, however it has firmly sprouted roots and with the likes of the Foresty Commission now insisting on the qualification its not long before our FEOs do! However as we have discussed there are many excellent people you can go to both in and out of the AW system, as the number of level 2 passes rise I am sure there will be a level 3, probably more classroom work that may prevent many excellent people like yourself from continuing to help.

 

We need to be careful though, as, as an level 2 holder I can officially write up a stalk, But I feel as I do not currently do enough regular stalking to warrant that honour. We must all make our own judgements and decisions taking into account our personal circumstances, the good thing about this type of thread is that it opens people eyes to every opportunity to go through your level 2.

 

I found deer stalker by chance so this thread would have given me more opportunities to look at.

 

Personal opinion, safety and respect for your quarry needs to be hammered home every time.

 

 

Happy Days

 

 

GB

[nell]

Interesting read guys, i have been asked by a couple of mates to witnes there stalks for the level 2, i sugested they go with a AW for the first stalk as i dont want my credibility called to question if i write them up and they go with an AW that thinks differently.

Wireviz is there any reason you suggest it best the last one be witnest by an AW?

Nell

[atom]

Interesting read guys, i have been asked by a couple of mates to witnes there stalks for the level 2, i sugested they go with a AW for the first stalk as i dont want my credibility called to question if i write them up and they go with an AW that thinks differently.

Wireviz is there any reason you suggest it best the last one be witnest by an AW?

Nell

[/qtuotat hi this is atom the powers that be seem to think that if the last assesment is done by a level 2 aw then if he says you are compitent the other 2 cannot be wrong i personally have done a lot of free write ups for people who i considered to be good stalkers but i wont do any more since i found out that aw have a list of questions to ask the candidate when i did a portfolio for one guy his other 2 aw assessments had the same questions word for word any body can copy i have stalked for twenty odd years and imho thats how you learn every stalk is different every situation has to be assessed in a instance the proof is in the pudding and we all still make mistakes cheers the atom

[Guest wireviz]

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[deer stalker]

Neil Atom hit it right on the head mate they prefer it last so the AW can make sure your stalks were done to a standard. Again Atom you are so wright the question bank is exactly that and most AW DONT SEEM TO WANT TO DEVIATE FROM IT BUT i for one think questions might apear that need ask there and then relevant to the situation not to the suggested Q N A. i REMEBER I TOOK A CHAP OUT tucker for an assessment and put the pictures up on the net he had removed the lower part of the front leg first .Not being my normal way i asked him why he had done this.Answer was they get in the way so why not remove them .Well the out cry from every one seeing the photos was that's not the right way he wil fail for that!! . But if its his way and works for him doesn't contaminate the carcase then who am i to say its wrong .

Did he pass yes no problem and was tol by his internal that he removes the legs first also

 

Hi Wireviz,

 

Let me try again to explain, the level 2 portfolio is made up of 3 ICRs ( individual cull records ), Each ICR is split into 4 elements, each element is made up of performance criteria which has to meet the required standard set by DMQ ( deer management qualifications ) on all 3 ICRs, not just the one that the AW ( accredited witness ) witnesses.

 

As for a bank of questions, DMQ provide a guidance booklet to all AWs, included in this are example questions to be used as the starting base for a bank of question, which I and many other AWs have built on, each stalk is different and must be judged on what you see on the day and the questions must relate to what you have witnessed.

 

During the 3 witnessed stalks the only question that should be repeated is: Element 1-Stalk Deer, Performance Criteria 1.2 Decide on the cull animal required.

 

Cheers...........

 

Keith..............

[deer stalker]

[

Linda congrats on a good write up for keith hen but can we remain on coarse here we are talking about lev 2 assessors not what a nice chap Keith is. So while you are jumping on the band wagon and will no doubt be a AW very soon you had better realise that there are some people out there that while not going down the paper pushers route really do know there stuff. If you dont get that into your head girlie your clients will run rings round you .

 

Lev 2 is a test of ability to stalk deer cull deer and then put it safely into the food chain lets not make this more difficult than it is.

 

you state (IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR KEITH I WOULD NEVER HAVE GOT A CHANCE AT SHOOTING A DEER ) well good one Keith that's one stalk that couldn't be used for the lev 2 porfoilo

 

I WILL SAY AGAIN IF YOU ARE SITTING LEV TWO YOU DONT NEED A HELPING HAND AT ALL YOU ARE READY OR YOU WOULDNT BE THERE. iT DOSNT MATTER HOW NICE THE CHAP HE IS ONLY AN OBSERVER AND IF HE INTERVIENS THEN HE IS NOT DOING HIS JOB PROPERLY .

 

NOW THIS WAS NOT MENT TO BE ABOUT KEITH BUT TO MANY ON HERE BRING HIS NAME IN TO IT SO LETS KEEP IT AWAY FROM A ADVERT FOR KEITH AND ON COARSE FOR A GOOD DEBATE YOU GIRLIE CAN CALL ME Davie and i will call you LINDA X

 

Hi Wireviz,

 

As I have already stated im not touting for business, I had hoped that anyone unsure about level 2 would use this thread as a way to get free advice and guidance with questions and problems with level 2, Im happy to talk to and help anybody.

 

I dont like being tared with a big brush and attacked, nor do I like the way Linda is being put down for defending me and for getting out and trying to better her self. you have read her post and twisted what has been said just to amuse yourself, this I feel is very sad. (IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR KEITH I WOULD NEVER HAVE GOT A CHANCE AT SHOOTING A DEER ) This has nothing to do with Linda's level 2, It refers to a days muntjac stalking that we did together this winter. so please stick to the topic and the facts, dont twist everything you read and turn it into an arguement as all im trying to do is help.

 

Cheers...........

 

Keith.................

[tikka3006]

I have been following this thread in total bewilderment.

funky & wireviz you have added nothing positive to this thread, you've taken every oppertunity to have a pop at a man who's only crime is to recommend the use of AW's for level 2 assesment.

 

for the record I am currently doing my level 2 and like green Bear I had a so called professional deer stalker fill in my assesment forms these were totally rejected by the assesor and no he was'nt an AW, this has made things more dificult and I am sure had I gone to an AW contrary to your implications I would have saved money and time, the whole experience would have been more enjoyable.

 

Do an AW have to do an exam ? look on the DMQ web site it'll tell you all you need to know about DMQ and the qualification and there will be no need to ask such silly questions ( or are you just mischief making) as level 2 holders you must already know the answeres to your own questions.

 

now is your oppertunity to have a pop at me. I have stalked with Keith and find the service he offers excellent value he tries hard to put you on shootable beast and does not pressure you to take the shot, I have learned more from my time with keith than I have with other so called experienced or professional stalkers the knowledge gained is at no extra cost

 

I will continue to do my level 2 and if he is willing I will do it with keith who I know will make it an enjoyable experience

 

If you can't post anything thats informative or positive go and make mischief elseware

 

Ian