ejg223 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 As a few of you might know I’ve been busy trying to find a better way of producing a composite rifle stock. Two years ago I was shopping around for a composite stock for my Sako, but after having a close look at some at the IWA in Nuremberg I lost interest. The composite stocks that I had seen where constructed with a strong outer layer and filled with structural foam or other low strength fillers. The outer layer was then milled away in the action area and the barrel channel. In that case the rifle would be sitting on weaker composite filler materials which then obviously need to be pillar bedded. I’ve always enjoyed playing around with composite materials and my sons now join in on projects. We made a decision to invest a bit and make our own stock. Modern composites have great advantages but need to be used right, so our goal was to make a stock that does not need to be milled out. Additionally we wanted to make sure to have an ultra stiff platform which transfers recoil from the action directly into the mass of stock. Thirdly it was important that the stock becomes extremely torsion and bend stiff. This can be done by using high modulus carbon fibres in some areas and glass in others. We chose to start with a Howa short action hunter-varmint style stock. It’s always challenging trying to shape a stock to be equally comfortable off the shoulder and in the prone position. We stuck the prototype on my 22-250 several times to see if it is comfortable or if niggles could be detected. Southpaw Huntsman was great help showing the problem zones in left-hand use so that we could correct as good as possible. Now finally a half year later the first stocks are rolling out. We are very happy with the results so far, weight is as planned 800-900grams. The future might show an ultra light version, possibly under 500grams. Layer of Kevlar should make pillar bedding unnecessary. Plenty room for either heavy or as in this case sporter barrel weight. regards edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orka Akinse Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hi Edi Fantastic result that looks the dogs doo da's. Personally I think the colour would not be suited to me but if your ever in the market to make me a new Tikka 595 for my .308 you'd be a friend for life Very well done for seeing it through, let us know how she shoots. OA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hi Edi these look very interesting, reading into the post, are you saying that your stock design does not require pillar bedding? If so, this is going to be a genuine "drop in" stock alternative to the likes of the other composite stock makers who's wares almost always require pillars or skim bedding to get the best out of them. The design looks functional, and well thought out, are you going to offer any other inlets in the future, for Rem, Tikka, Sako, if so, I think these will be popular indeed. Well done mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambi-basher Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Having handled one of Edi’s stocks let me say they are stiffer than any thing else I have seen, that includes my own Bell and Carlson which has an aluminium chassis. He does seem to taking composite stocks to the next level IMO. Nice one Edi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemasis243 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Nice Job , I to think that this is going to take off, I am one of many people out there who shoot Tikkas and as your aware there isnt many options for aftermarket stocks , I would love to know what sort of price these would run for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Thanks so far, only sprayed the stock this morning and stuck it into the oven. Didn't have time to bed the rifle, but it seems ok as is. Checked zero, it was 3 clicks low compared to the original plastic stock. I don't think I had shot a group like this before with this rifle. Only fired one 4 shot group. I needed the ammo for a shot later. 22-250 36gr varget & 52gr Nos HP custom match Got a nice fat magpie at 120m and a rabbit at about the same distance. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Orka, when it comes to colours Kal is the guy. I'm good for single colour. Ronin, I'm not 100% sure but pillar bedding also has disadvantages. It is only transfering the problem a bit. In our case we mould the holes for the action screws, meaning one can wrap any fibre around the core that one wants. In the past i've also used ceramic powders that have a high packing ability to increase the compression strength of epoxy. We will learn as we go. At the moment I'd say try without. A very light skim bedding sounds good. Drop in ?? couldn't say for sure as the stock was made to my howa, if the howa's lugs vary then one might need to dremel a tiny bit. If this stock turns out ok, we'll think about the next one. The biggest problem is getting the shape halfway right so that it is usable for the majority of people. Thanks B-b, also for all your help so far. Nemasis, if people are interested, we could make a few a month as we are set up at the moment. We'll see. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Rem Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 edi, how many orders for a stock to suit an action other than the Howa would you need to make it worth your while setting up for? Any idea of a rough cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Rem, difficult to answer that. But I expect a mould to last a couple years, so initial costs are distributed over time. Not really sure what will be next, something that is needed. So possibly a Remmy SA followed by T3, or??. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Looks very good Edi. As the other lads have said theres a big hole in the market when it comes to Sako's and Tikka's Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsm Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 looks suspiciously like a direct copy of the Robertson Composites "light hunter " stock made in Canada and sold thgrough Nesika Bay in the states,I have 2 there the most confortable stocks I have ever used and at only 23 oz a nice weight for a carry rifle In all honesty Pete I think most stock manufacturers have designs that look suspiciously alike especially sporter models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 looks suspiciously like a direct copy of the Robertson Composites "light hunter " stock made in Canada and sold thgrough Nesika Bay in the states,I have 2 there the most confortable stocks I have ever used and at only 23 oz a nice weight for a carry rifle Funky, Our prototype or plug started as a cheapy injection moulded plastic stock. Every surface was changed and is now a completly different stock and so much more comfortable than the original. Most stocks are aimed at the american market with very low mounted scopes. We set this stock to also be comfy with higher mounted scopes. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Quality? We do not use gel coat when making these stocks. Disadvantage is that the surface needs a bit more work before spraying and my first attempt might not be perfect. We do not use gel coat because it only adds weight and no strength. One could use gel coat to save costs. Judging the quality of a stock is a different matter, one must understand where and under which angles what fibers are located. Most stocks at the moment have the action contacting or sitting on resin/filler/chopped strand, no structure!!! We don't mill the inlet, and can therefore lay the best fibers directly where the highest stress will be expected. This also increases stiffness immensely. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Funky, Have you seen and handled one of edi's stocks? No i didn't think so, then how can you possibly say that a Robertson is better quality and finish??? Why dont you say something posative for a change? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streeker59 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I believe that Funky is saying that whilst he has every reason to believe that Eds stock has been manufactured to ensure that the required strength and rigidity is in the right place unlike many factory stocks, the cosmetics are perhaps not to everyones taste. Some will put performance over looks every time. Most of us dare i say want performance with looks that would cause the girls to drop their knickers at the mere sight of our hallowed rifles.. Edi, i take my hat off to you. Well i would for it not for the fact that someone on here made me eat it with onion gravy awhile back.. I wouldn't know where to start to build my own stock let alone ensure that it would get the best out of whatever action one was to place init. I wish you all the luck in your venture.... Grant.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Thanks Ian and Grant, as I mentioned before I'm only good for a single colour at the moment. If I'd want a real nice cammo paint Job I'd also go to Kal. One needs to go to an expert for something special. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finman Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Well, Edi, you are on to a good thing here, and well done for taking the bull by the horns and doing your own thing rather than wait for someone else to do it for you. Unfortunately, lots of us (myself first on that line) belong in the second category and I will join my voice with that of the others who called for a stock that would fit a Tikka action, particularly the 595, 695, 590, 690 and the 55 series. There is nothing in the market for these and I am sure that there are chaps out there like me who love their Tikkas but would also love to change their stocks...If you ever going to be producing one for left hand Tikkas, I am first in the line and I really really like green (or fucsia for that matter, so long as the action fits!!). best wishes, Finman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Edi, for what its worth, can i chuck my two,pennorth in? I,ve seen the stock, and its very impressive.I personally dont like like moulded in inletting...it never fits every gun, only the one it was moulded off, therefore meaning they have to be bedded.I personally do not subsribe to the "skim" bedding job....i think its broccoli basically.Bedding needs to be thick in my opinion, so that would mean removing a fair bit of material.As i,m sure you are far more aware than we are, you cant have your cake and eat it, meaning, you cant have a ultra strong bedding area, without weight? Actions. i can see why you used a howa...you have one to hand. As you know, we sell wilddogs for howa, and we dont sell a lot.Nothing to do with price, etc, its just that, there arent that many out there, and thats a fact, despite what people say. If you want to turn half a dozen a month out, pick a niche market mate...forget remmy,s howa,s etc, turn them out for tikka,s and sako,s etc, and make them in left hand.No one does it, and there is a definate market there, especially if you intend to stay small scale. I would estimate, 35% of the people who come through our door are left handed. Good luck with it mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager SA Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have one of Edis proto stocks and I can say they are very good even the first attempt as it is. Whilt it is unfinished the entire stock integrity is solid from top to toe. The lack of flex in the forend is impressive, the solid feel to the pistil grip, cheekpice and butt all add up to what has the potential to be a bloddy good stock. Ive seen Robertsons and coated quite a few, not that impressed to be fair, they seemed agricultural for want of a better word. Now of course comparing one against the other might seem impossible but it has to be said Edi is on the way to producing some good work. Once the stock is finished I will post a piccy, a review is also being written on it for the shooting magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeteR Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'll tick the box for a stock for a 595 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager SA Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 seems you are entitled to your opinion but its seems the TOP rilfe smiths in the USA and a lot of TOP BR shooters cant be wrong using Roberston Stocks,but Iam sure you know better James I am indeed entitled to my opinion just like you... Now did I say that anything about them being no good, or the fact that TOP riflesmith in the states and a lot of BR shooters cant be wrong...er NO. I did say they seem agricultural. And of course Pete, I know better about the same as you do, now dont I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager SA Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 tripple posting James TUT TUT, you getting a bit flustered mate, agricultural isnt that what a tractor is ??? If you say so Pete, of course you are THE internet authority on all things shooting, well it seems all things sometimes... Agricultural, tractor? I always thought a tractor was a piece of machinery, or at the very least a vehicle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager SA Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 tripple posting James TUT TUT, you getting a bit flustered mate, agricultural isnt that what a tractor is ??? yes James Robertson stocks sound real agriculral dont they How we do it. We have been building fiberglass gunstocks for over twenty years and our customers have acquired a long list of international trophies. Our stocks are built with one ultimate goal in mind, stability and accuracy. Our stocks are built by hand to achieve the best combination of strength and stability. They are built with epoxies formulated to give the best structural characteristics in composition with a variety of reinforcing materials and in fact the next time you are in an airplane you may be flying with the same epoxy you shoot with. A close watch on the resin to reinforcing materials ratio is required to achieve the best strength to weight performance and all our stocks are post cured at elevated temperatures to maintain their excellent properties through a wide temperature range. The action area in our standard fill is composed of a solid composition to give a solid and stable base to the bedding. The forend is filled with a light weight material (not foam) which provides excellent stiffness without adding non-structural weight. Butts are solid filled in target styles to allow the installation of cheek piece adjusters and may be foam filled to save weight on other models. Foam has its place in a precision stock, if careful thought is given to it's use. All of our stocks use carbon fiber in critical areas to add stiffness at low weight. We have CAD, CNC and digitizing facilities. All our inlets are done CNC and many of our stocks have been produced with the aid of this technology. As an example the SG&Y "F" model was produced completely with this technology and has many details which are very hard to see in the photographs. It is styled after the Stealth fighter and even has intake ports on the forend which are used for barrel cooling slots. Cool. Pete cut and past what you like mate, I dont give a flying what you say about Robertsons stocks, you havent seen a stock from Edi, therefore you cant comment as to its quality or comparison of another stock. You seem hell bent on trying to cause a problem for what reason as usual none of us know...perhaps boredom or shear spite. Im entitled to my opinion, my opinion is that the Robertsons stocks ive seen seem agricultural, the stock I have from Edi is a very good start, a very good step in the right direction, if you dont like it, its your problem you know what you can do...dont post on the thread. Ive seem more stocks than I can remember, most of which are Mcmillan, so called one of the best there is, of late their quality has been pants, they appear to have lost their way a bit. Now are you going to say im wrong and your right, or perhaps cut and paste some useless information from a website telling us all what we already know having read the same information on the same site? Actually I couldnt care less because all these posts do if feed your ego, you seem to thrive on it mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager SA Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 LOLis it that time of the month again for you,I never said the guys stock was no good either I just pointed out the quality "could" be better as the firest impressions dont look good,now that is called a constriuctive opinion I also mentioned it loked iddentical to another make of stock,so mate where is the problem with that apart form the one your making LOL Must be that time for you everyday! How can you comment on the quality from a picture? Get real mate come on you talking codswallop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager SA Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 James a photos tell a person a lot,go and take a real closer look like I did Pete, ive got one sitting here in the flesh, why do I need a photo... I can assure you my opinion of the stock is a bit more substanial... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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