Roedale precsion

[Orka Akinse]

Feel for you buddy....... really do.

[Wsm]

We`ll leave this open but from now on only post if you`ve had/got direct experience with the matter in hand please

[6.5x55]

We`ll leave this open but from now on only post if you`ve had/got direct experience with the matter in hand please

 

 

Gentlemen

Just to update you .I received a PM from Peter on Friday evening stating that the rifle had been picked up that Morning and was on its way to Me in Ireland . As of today nothing has Landed in Dublin.I will update you all as the week progresses , so ''the Jury is still Out'' on this one .

 

6.5x55

[Guest wireviz]

Gentlemen

Just to update you .I received a PM from Peter on Friday evening stating that the rifle had been picked up that Morning and was on its way to Me in Ireland . As of today nothing has Landed in Dublin.I will update you all as the week progresses , so ''the Jury is still Out'' on this one .

 

6.5x55

 

If this is indeed your rifle on its way 65x55 how long will have taken from start to finish

[DeltaV]

What a load of shite.

 

1. Jonathan Kavanaghs rifle. left handed hansen 703. serial nr RH70089.Kal. 6.5x55. Action was ordered within 3 weeks of taking the order for Jonathan. I personaly asked Jonathan to complain to hansen, about the delivery schedule, of course hansen shoved the blame to me,but i swear absolutely that I definately ordered the rifle action on time.The fact that Brothers Hansen had thier problems remembering who had ordered what, ( they where going through some problems at the time admittedly) and the fact that they managed to get 3 actions lost in the post never to be seen again (not to mention a stock), thier very very very late delivery time over expected, the fact that specification changes mit production run occur and the arrogance involved has lead to me deciding not to use hansen actions anymore.

 

All this had knock on effect on my delivery schedules. I finaly recieved the action either late october or november 2007. spec changes meant delays in completion date, the action had to be TiAIN coated rather than cerakoated, the trigger and firing pin needed work to function to my satisfaction with the 3 position safety, shortage of 6.5x55 ammo all added, as did processing of paperwork, bank holidays and courier issues.

 

I never leid or attempted to mislead Jonathan once, yes, he got several stories, but those stories where actual info at the time, if i get messed about by any party in the line then unfortunately the mess about gets m passed on to some extent and this is unavoidable.

 

You know i realy do not want to mess anyone about,and have never ever intentionaly done that, the only way to avoid this is to stick to 1 statement and not give any info about status and del date other than: . "The rifle will be ready when it is ready, that will be asap with all things considered"

 

Yes ive late delievered a few rifles, you all know the issues of the last 2 years, ive only actualy been full time since mid January. that is less than 5months, that is not much time to sort out issues, build rifles, extend workshop,source machinery,source production capability, design, develop and put in to production a range of stock systems and magazine systems, a moderator and a few other things, file copywrite, interview staff, prepare for and exhibit at the IWA etc.

I have worked my broccoli over the last 3 years, dealt with all sorts of professional and personal problems that would have folded a lot of small companies or lesser men. I have litteraly worked my sell to an illness, almost to break down point, but what would the most of you lot care, I started with 3 grand a mate lent me and a €3000 overdraft, I have not personaly spent one penny of profit made, it has all gone back in to the business to expand on capability, product sortiment, machinery and buildings. So if you think i'm sat supping Pils and eating sausages on customers money, think again.

When i deliver a rifle late, I always, always include a few extras to make up for the waiting time. Why do a do that, because believe it or not I care, which is more than can be said for a load of you. Its funny, but nearly all the happy customers are quiet and don't shout off on forums, but the unhappy vast minority seem to bitch at any chance.

 

Back to Jonathan. Your rifle is on its way, when i get back to the workshop tommorow i'll forward the track number. I hope you will like it, its a handy piece, the TiAIN coating on the action (done free of charge by the way) makes it nice and smooth, its got a nice trigger and it shoots well. The stock could be better, but that can be said for all mcmillans. The rifle deserves a better scope than is on it, i'd highly recomend a 3-12x50 Zenith FD7. and if you decide you want to upgrade scope at any stage, du to the wait, you will certainly recieve 1 scope of your choice at cost price, Let us know what you think of the rifle. I know its late, but it was built at a price no one else in Europe could match. I have been threatened by you, harrased by you, I will not stand for such behavior. Yes the rifle is late, but its a 2 way street, be civil and nice to me and i will definately see you right, but threats and abuse, they are no use to anyone.

 

London Hunter.. Benjamin.. you where absolutely delighted with the 9.3x62 when i drove 800km to enable you to use it in Germany ( we wont mention who put you ontothe contact for the boar hunt you where on!!) and from what i can remember you put it to good effect on several game animals, infact didn't you write a post on here about it? and i can assure you, it is the self same stock on the rifle as it was when you shot those deer and boar..

You tell a very 1 sides story, and i must say that i am very disapointed in you, shall we go through the many many different orders you have placed with me, only to change your mind a month later because you have read anout a better mousetrap on the internet or your licensing officer has said no. each and every time i have ordered items and had to cancel them for you, i have been so very tollerant, never upped the price, been helpfull, courtiouse. I even renamed my wild cat to the 9.3x70 from 9.3LapMag so you could get the variation from your licensing office.

Take your 9.3x62 for example, the order started life as 2 rifles with a discount for multiple order, the rifles where in a different caliber and you wanted a Knoxx axiom stock, barrels where ordered, stocks ordered.. luckily same action type.. then you changed your mind, we went through several calibers over a few weeks, each time you verbaly confirmed an order, each time you changed your mind. then you wanted only 1 rifle, but i didint up the price, i still gave you the 10% discount.

Finnaly you wanted a Knoxx Industries altered hogue stock because you wanted recoil reduction capability. I ordered the Knoxx stock direct with Knoxx and was given a way of date for delivery and a request for the import export paperwork chain to be done. bending over backwards because you needed the rifle quick i searched for an alternative route for a knoxx stock. a mate of mine called Tony J, who lives in Florida in the US occasionaly gets me stuff through the back door and sends it via the US Military postal system. This is the route by which we came to aquire the stock on the 9.3x62. ( and there are plenty of lads who get mates to order kit in the US, so you all know the dodge) Knoxx couldn't deliver in any speed so i asked Tony to check all the gunshops, webshops and such like to get me a stock asap. This Tony did, he found a seller on ebay.com selling variouse stocks in an ebay shop. The stock was over priced but i told him to grab it. The stock arrived here a couple of weeks later, all wrapped up in plastic with Knoxx Industries stickers on the packaging and parts label. The Knoxx stock looks like a Hogue, is 90% a hogue, they buy the stocks from Hogue and install a recoil reduction system in the butt.

Never having seen a Knoxx stock prior, i removed the buttpad and sure enough there was wht looked like a mercury recoil reducer inside. I had absolutely no reason to doubt the originality of the stock. Hence it was fitted to the 9.3x62 and Benjamin was happy. he shot several animals with the rifle.

I had to leave the rifle with Benjamin in southern Germany, he inturn left it with the forrester/guesthouse. It took a while for the rifle to be delieverd back to me, it arrived with no ammo(sensibly of course) The box of 50 that was given to Benjamin have not been returned (minus that what was used) and neither that ammo or the ammunition that we delieverd for his shooting partner has been paid for. The rifle delivery to UK was delayed because benjamin still didn't have a variation for this caliber, hence the personal export papers could not be issued, The rifle was finaly sent after processing the paperwork for it to be delieverd to reloading sollutions shop address, the processing of the paperowkr did take a coupld of weeks and the rifle was apparently quite a while in transit if the date i was given by Benjamin is correct. Since then Benjamin has compared the stock on his 9.3x62 to another hogue, we have both consulted with Knoxx, it appears that Knoxx are well aware of the immitation /knockoff stocks on the market, its a pity I and Tony (and benjamin) wheren't !! Yes we got ripped off on the stock, and i freely admit, i had no idea it wasn't a knoxx. and to expect a gunsmith to know each and every type and spec of every stock maker is bordering on the impossible ( who of you can tell the difference between the HS and B&C stocks used on the Remington factory rifles??,, same difference.

 

I had fitted a 1.1-4x24 S&B zenith to the rifle. The bill for the scope and the ammunition are still outstanding, a sum between 8-900 pounds. benjamin unfortunately left part of my email to him out of his post. I assured him the stock would be replaced with the genuine item at the earliest oppertunity and that he could wait with paying the bill for the scope untill the stock came. After using the rifle in Germany, Benjamin was so delighted that he imediately ordrered another rifle, a rifle of which all the parts bar the stock are here and ready machined, i have seen no deposit for this rifle, he also refered several other customers to me. I have emailed him for status update both sides and have not heared anything since him going to Africa to hunt.

The issue with removal of a scope which he wants to swap to another rifle, well, with the correct size of allen key it is no problem, even if the screw has jammed under torque, it is a simple task for a smith to bore of the head and remove the stub and replace the screw.

 

As far as unhappy customers go. well is it possible to keep a 100% rate. i doubt it. But i do my best to look after people, if i get messed about by supply-courier or whatever this unfortunately gets passed on, it doesn't suit me, and it get very irate about it, so much so that i am currently on Beta Blocker tables to help calm the stress.

 

Ive also had comments about my "get rich quick Scemes" by that it was meant that why was i wasting time farting about developing mag sytems and stocks when i should be building rifles... the answer is simple, because i'm buggered if i will be let down in the future as much as i have been in the past by supply of component parts. and all the recent design and developement work has been an absolute nessesity to make sure bottle knecks in supply do not occur in the future. Hence we have now the RCS stock ( AI look alike) for the Howa 1500 SA, Tikka T3, Avenger RS. We have mag systems for the Howa 1500 SA, a replacement bottom metal and firing pin shroud for the cheapo plastic Tikka T3 unit. We have shortly a moddy of own design, mag system for Rem 700, Mauser 98, RCS for Savage, All of which are required for current orders.

 

 

What realy realy bugs me, infact it makes me ashamed to come from the western side of the English channel. ( and that statement was almost word for word said to my by another guy who is self employed and has to deal with the same crowd (eh kal?) The mentality of some of the guys (by no means all) from west of the channel is unblieveable.. Ive German customers who have been waiting just as long, when the call up or email the first thing they ask is, Pete how are you? Pete hows your wife? Pete hows your Dad. Then they say, i know your busy, but when do you think i can maybe expect the rifle, please dont rush it, I'd rather wait for it to be built by you than get ripped of and charged too much, and i know when its done it will be right.

If i get a call or an email..," Where's my f(/&%$ rifle you C%$% it is always 100% from west of the channel.. ( please accept my appologies, the decent patient guys).

Personaly I'd quit bitching, i'd appreciate the difficulties some one has been through, id give em some time to sort stuff out and id offer encouragement, because at the end of the day, the effort that Pete Lincoln puts into the European Custom Rifle trade, the ingenuity, the further developement, the cost awareness and the attemt to strive for a fair price has got to be a benefit to us all, east of west of the channel.

 

 

So guys, keep back stabbing and bitching if you want. I know i'm on the right track, I'm not sat on my arse, i'm sorting any issues that stand, and as soon as the damn building work is finnished and i can get back to day in day out production, the whole damn show will be a whole lot better... and that.. will have been achieved within 6-8 months of going full time. I can build 100 rifles a year, up to April 2nd i'd taken orders for almost 50% of that, up to 1st June ive taken orders for 70% of that. Ive 3-4 rifles a week going out at the mo despite the building work, so i must be doing something right. I dont make anyone buy a rifle from me, but ive no shortage of customers, and there are some in the UK who can see past the bullshit put out by certain folk,, and with that we come to mr motorsport or should it be mouth

 

Funky as far as your mate kershaw has seen any rifles of mine, the only one he has had a look at was the 6.5x284 Fire AT Will rifle.. and acording to Kershaw the rifle had large head space, 1. it passed German Proof, head space issues where not present. 2. i visited FAW and checked the headspace with my go-no go guages. The headspace was definately within the tollerances, and if you dont know about the dangers of mixing types fo guages and reamers then i suggest you spend a little less time bullshitting about me , and try and get some knowlegde. I work to the specs of the German proof house, CIP and my own specs. (one and the same) and its easy to see why you lot have ago, every rifle i sell in the UK is a rifle he or your other mates (which amount to one and the same thing) dont. We all know you and wireviz dont miss an opertunity to have a go and to be honest it used to bother me, but now it just makes me yawn.

 

Keep Smiling

Pete

[Guest wireviz]

We all know you and wireviz dont miss an opportunity (QUOTE PETER L )

 

So why would i have a go at you at every opportunity pete surly even you must know i dont hold a grudge . All i said a long time ago was i didn't trust you after you failing to get back to a friend regards a scope. I got slated by most of the members of a well known site at the time and you were in your words horrified. Your a real case PETE and if you had stuck to your word and been up front about everything then all this that which promotes growth and vigour would not have hit you. But you cant help your self it is a lie after lie after lie . OR IT IS SOME ONE ELSES FAULT. But your dealings do make interesting threads and i would say most people have a morbid interest.

[Tikka 260]

So, very interesting Pete, and in the absence of email, telephone ot text message to me, at least this is some kind of communication, which is never forthcoming directly to the Customer without several prompts.

 

IF you are able to provide some information on my Sako which was allegedly completed in January 2008, and its current whereabouts, I shall be a Happy Chicken. However, I am not holding my breath! Particularly as I have emails from you, promising delivery by mid September 2007. It is now June 2008.

 

I really have difficulty understanding why it takes 5 months to get a Courier organised.

 

Perhaps I am being over impatient?

 

A truthful text message would suffice, or is that also an unreasonable request and tantamount to harassment ?

 

I note the following from your website "We will accept no harrasment in connection with delivery times, we gaurantee to have the rifle completed within 3 months of reciept by us of all the component parts." and I fully accept what you say, however, I have no evidence of the veracity of that statement and I humbly suggest that when delivery is promised it might just be reasonable to expect delivery.

 

So, here we are, 15 months following delivery of an action to you for rebarreling and restocking, at which time you had the stock and the barrel on your shelves, or so you assured me, and as of today I have no firm delivery date. The ONLY change I requested was for the Barrel to be threaded for a moderator in June 2007. The McMillan stock was allegedly delivered to you in December 2006, I do not consider it reasonable and professional practice to ignore the stock for 6 months and then declare it to be 'warped'. So, on to the Manners stock, which was not feasible and eventually ended up as as a direct paint finished McMillan in September 2007, which I could have ordered from the net in August 2006 ! The TiAIN coating for the action was not ordered but was offered by you in place of the Cerakote requested by myself in the original order, so I would not reckon that to contribute to the delays.

 

The Picatinny rail was included in the original specification of August 2006, albeit a Ken Farrel. You did nothing about obtaining the rail until August 2007 when you offered a Roedale/Rechnagel rail which subsequently became all too difficult, and I then sourced a rail from Richard Near. Again, you had a year to sort this out and nothing happened.

 

I have the action on my FAC and on my EU Firearms passport, and normally I would have been happy to travel to Germany and collect the completed rifle, and indeed offered to do just that. However, on reflection, I considered that you could invent any story you wished to prevent me collecting the rifle from you, - German Gun Laws- blah blah blah, and there fore it would have been a further £300 down the Gurgler.

 

Are you surprised that your Customers become a tad irritated? If you are unable to complete /deliver or whatever for whatever reason, JUST tell the Customers whats going on . Is that also too difficult ?

 

....... and yes, I know you are bored with us, but we have cash invested in your service. ALL you have to do is deliver, and I sincerely promise that you will not be bothered by me , ever again.

 

Kind Regards

 

T260

[DeltaV]

Peter we've been over the most of what you wrote before. but a short run down on the basis of delay on your Sako.

Outside Influence: The stocks caused delays. The picatinny rail issue caused delays. TiAIN coating caused delay. a tightly held throat caused delay (in that the rifle was returned from proofhouse unproofed with a note that the throat was short, this had to be lengthened slightly, not a problem in its self and an easy fix, but turn around time at proof put a month on) , finding a courier caused delay, changes to export paperwork caused delay.

Me: work load-commitments-family-illness-workshop modernisation, machine breakage all added to the above.

The rifle is finnished, and should be with you within days. I am at the moment in the CNC factory, i will be back in my workshop later this afternoon and wil then be able to give you either per email or text a status report.

 

 

Funky-yeah whatever.

 

 

 

Look lads this is going beyond all relation. Its got to be damaging my business, and although i don't give a that which promotes growth and vigour what a couple of folk say about me, i do care about what the majority think and about my reputation. I do care about customers.

 

I know damn well that ive let a couple of customers down, unfortunately, despite giving the whole issue my honest best effort, This does not suit me at all, but with the problems ive encountered over the last 2 years it is absolutley understandable that a couple of issues would occur. You all know the story of the problems up to my resignation from the Space Agency. It was absolutely impossible to run the business as it should be run, whilst coping with a mega high stress job, so far away from home, dealing with sick and ageing parents an inlaws and i don't want to go into my wifes problems again. For the most part the issues you read about over the last 5 pages all have thier roots deeply set in the chaos of the last 2 years.

 

You will not find a riflesmith anywhere in Europe who is more open about his problems than i am thats a fact.

 

Ive been full time since mid January 2008. That is not quite 5 months. That is not much time to develop all the nessesary infrastructure to put the business on the right track, sort out problems, organise local production of difficult to aquire parts, design and developement work included. Sort out building work, find the right new machinery etc. etc.etc. all this as well as building rifles for existing customers. Its one hell of a lot of work for one guy to manage on his own. All you guys who are self employed, didn't you ever make any mistakes in the first stages/years? at times i haven't know if i was coming of going. I never professed to be a businesman, and its been a sharp learning curve, but learning by doing is the best way and despite what some would have you all beleive, i am working hard to get things on the right track. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither was a successfull rifle and accessories manufacturing business or a custom rifle. And every fledgling busines is bound to have teething troubles, and in a difficult industry such as the gun trade even more so, supply is a bitch, we all know that.

Its been a struggle the last 2 years or so, a lot hasn't gone to plan. But under the circumstances, considering what i have achieved, i am actualy very proud of my self. Am i satisfied and content. No, definately not,

Yes we've had problems in the past, yes we are still sorting a few of those problems out. But my family, my employee and I are absolutely determined to work as hard as we can to make a success of Roedale Precision.

 

So rather than constantly raking over the problems of the past, how about some understanding, some encouragement. None of you have to buy anything from our company and be honest Europe is such a large market, the UK is absolutely saturated with "riflesmiths" we can live without ever selling a rifle to either country ever again. Having said that. I realy want to continue trading to the UK, so to all potencial customers, don't forget about Roedale Precision, wait and watch if you like, the business is developing, we are getting there, the right track has been found and with a little time our full time business will definately be a success and will have good customer service.

Give us time to sort things out, get set up with the new buildings and expansion, we will provide the right kind of service at the right price with the right goods and quality. Most of you have more to gain through our success than through our failure.

 

Benjamin, please contact me with regards to the exchange of the bogus knoxx stock.

Jonathan, please let me know when you get the rifle and what you think,

Peter, same goes for you and i'll up date you asap.

 

To all 3 of you, things didn't go as planned for variouse reasons, but, instead of bitching and bieng unhappy, as it has been stated several times, I am actualy a nice and helpfull bloke. and all 3 of you should know darn well that i owe you one. SO if there is anything i can do to make up for the problems, hey, all you have to do is send me an email or give me a bell. I am more than willing to put right what was wrong, and the same goes for anyone else, if something didn'tb happen or happen quick enough or to anyones satisfation, call me up, send me an email and say " Pete, that pissed me off a bit, you owe me one" you all know damn well i aint going to say get stuffen.

 

 

Guys i did my best, the curcumstances where against me, i'm sorry it wasn't good enough, but i am working hard to do better and me and my now team will succeed.

 

Pete

[6mmBR]

Look lads this is going beyond all relation. Its got to be damaging my business, and although i don't give a that which promotes growth and vigour what a couple of folk say about me, i do care about what the majority think and about my reputation. I do care about customers.

 

If the above is true why don't you stop bleating on here and get on and care about your customers.

It is most un profesional to blame home life and all the other excuses to the customer.

In business the customer is king, they have to be treated in a profesional manner and their respect earned.

The way forward is to deliver on promises and keep customers informed.

Respect and reputation have to be earned they don't just get given to you.

Dave

[6.5x55]

Peter

I have read your post's with Interest's but I will reserve judgement untill I have seen the rifle and my Smith has seen it and then I will reply.

Please forward the tracking number to my Private email.

 

Jonathan

[DeltaV]

Thankyou Johnathan. I will be back in the workshop at home by about 3, and will have tracking number for you in email straight away.

 

regards Pete

 

Mr Law, i guess John Moses Browning had to listen to the same sort of crap on occasion, he was lucky that there weren't idiots with key boards around at the time.

[Wsm]

Pete

 

I removed your last paragraph as it was a blatant advertisement which we don`t feel would be appropriate at present

[Wsm]

We`ve been asked to re-open this topic up by some of the interested parties

 

Again only those with relevent information please and any offensive posts will be removed along with the author

[londonhunter]

Update

 

I have sent photos of the plastic stock that came with the rifle received from Roedale Precision and I now have confirmation that it was not a "knocK off" but a standard Hogue mould over stock.

 

To date

 

I am still waiting for a replacemnt stock from Roedale Precision -despite being promised on this forum no communcation from Roedale

 

I have sent the rifle to a reputatable UK workshop for inspection and is awaiting a written report

 

after that I have requested the rifle should go for proof again in UK for peace of mind

 

I have also taken legal adivce from my solicitor and he suggested that I should mark down all the cost incurred and time spent in making good te rifle

 

Once I have finished total I will deduct the differnece and pay Roedale Precision fo the scope supplied and hopefully this will be the end of it.

 

This is so unfair I pay what he invoiced and all this aggravation.......................

[Tikka 260]

Update

 

I have sent photos of the plastic stock that came with the rifle received from Roedale Precision and I now have confirmation that it was not a "knocK off" but a standard Hogue mould over stock.

 

To date

 

I am still waiting for a replacemnt stock from Roedale Precision -despite being promised on this forum no communcation from Roedale

 

I have sent the rifle to a reputatable UK workshop for inspection and is awaiting a written report

 

after that I have requested the rifle should go for proof again in UK for peace of mind

 

I have also taken legal adivce from my solicitor and he suggested that I should mark down all the cost incurred and time spent in making good te rifle

 

Once I have finished total I will deduct the differnece and pay Roedale Precision fo the scope supplied and hopefully this will be the end of it.

 

This is so unfair I pay what he invoiced and all this aggravation.......................

 

For the record, despite a text message to my mobile on the 22.05.08 assuring collection from Roedale on the 26.05 .08 and subsequent delivery to me that week, I have had no further communication from Roedale apart from the general message above, which has proved once again to be totally unfounded in reality. Nothing changes !

 

As Mr W Churchill might have said...... "Terminological inexactitude" would appear to remain the order of the day .

 

ATB

 

T260

[londonhunter]

 

 

Sorry chaps

 

NOTHING TO REPORT to date

[Tikka 260]

Nicht, Niet, Rien, Nothing, Nada, All in all... Sweet F A .

 

But, looking on the bright side, no surprises in any of the above either!

 

 

T260.

[Wsm]

I am aware of some good news but will leave the report to the individual concerned

[baldie]

Gents,sorry to hear that looks like things will never change even after all the false promises. Looks like the only post of call now is legal action

Iam so glad I use UK rifle builders,Just a thought if the shipping is the problem Iam sure Col48 a UK RFD and holds the correct paperwork to inport and export firearms did offer to accept delivery of rifles to hlpe the job along

Iam sure there are other RFDs on this site like Ronin,Baldie or Kal who would probably offer to help this sticky situation

 

 

Having been in the same situation , regarding late delivery, a person would have to ask Roger [the owner] for such help.I personally will have nothing whatsoever to do with any buisness dealings with roedale precision.I do not hold the shop,s rfd, i,m only a servant.

[londonhunter]

Just remember something I remember Roedale did plan to parade a stand at the CLA Game Fair last year and it was cancelled due to rain.

 

Perhaps this up and coming fair will be a good chance to sort things out face to face.

 

Is there a CLA website or Midland Game fair website to check if he has a stand booked?

 

Will call organiser first thing Monday morning to check

 

Perhaps we should all join up to sort things out together.

 

Should be interesting.............................................................

[Vermincinerator]

Londonhunter,

Roedale was due to exhibit at the previous years fair but pulled out at the last minute, probably got wind of the disgruntled customers making their way there to see him.

 

Ian.

[Alycidon]

He was at the West Mids last year though, had a few actions etc showing people. He was pretty busy when I stood, watched and listened to the patter for a while.

 

A

[Guest wireviz]

So what have a missed here whats the good news .

[Guest Sprags]

Edited by Sprags:

 

 

It aint worth it!!!!!

[londonhunter]

Thank you Ian

 

 

If I recall at the time he was going to bring the rifle over with him since it was finished weeks ago but he was told that the fair was cancelled due to weather. I did not get the rifle until end of april this year. So you can see what kind of crap happened in between.................